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VC381

Need for speed: Duca vs. Molotov?

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These two ships seem to come from the same design "stable". To me they look similar in many ways, but also different (I own one and really enjoy it, am tempted by the other). Do they play the same? Which do you think is better and why?

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Molotov is a complete glass cannon. It's not exactly fast honestly, but it is to be played at range. You got Donskoi guns at tier 6, mounted on a tier 5 incredibly fragile hull.

I don't own Duca, but it seems more suited to close range engagement and getting personal in caps, hunting DDs.

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I have both boats and they play similarly in that they both need to be played very carefully, a stray AP round will take half your health no problem.  Best to kite with the Molotov and use the speed of the Duca to out manoeuvre shells as they fly in.  Both boats are great though in my opinion.  I always have fun in either of them :Smile_honoring: 

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having both

 

Molotov >> Duca

 

Ducas guns are very underwelming, on the other hand Molotov guns are incredible! One of the few low tier cruiser guns where you can shot AP with great results. The rest, speed and agility, are comparable in my viewpoint. Both are very fragile and get easily punished for mispositioning. The Duco points with its great torpedos and torpedo angles. But that does not balance out the crappy guns.

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55 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Molotov is a complete glass cannon. It's not exactly fast honestly

 

36 knots isn't fast? Only 0.5 knots short of Duca. Can't think of any other cruiser that's much faster.

 

50 minutes ago, SirBlemmingtonSmythe said:

use the speed of the Duca to out manoeuvre shells as they fly in. 

 

Interesting, love dodging in cruisers, that sounds fun.

 

37 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Both are very fragile, Molotov is long range and Duca has to be played at middle range.

 

Are you saying Duca is not as good because she's forced to play at a closer range while being just as fragile?

 

35 minutes ago, principat121 said:

Ducas guns are very underwelming

 

Can I ask why this is? We have other ships at T6 with 8x 152mm guns. Leander doesn't feel undergunned. La Gal has 9 guns but slower reload, I thought that had decent firepower. And those ships don't have 1,000m/s muzzle velocity.

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Duca is more depedent on MM.

Molotov works on any map on any Tier of her MM, thanks to the long range.

Duca can be problematic on an open Map vs Tier VIII. Duca needs cover to get close.

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Yes, the velocity of the shells is quite nice. You can hit ships reliable. But the point is: the shells are very light and thus shatter a lot. And even the fire chance is not impressive (6% with IFHE and DE). Molotov has 14% with IFHE and DE! With the Duca you hit alot, but you do not inflict much damage. The Duca is not bad at all! But IMO the Molotov is (at least for me) the better tier6 cruiser!

 

edit:

As the range was mentioned above, I have to add that I also spend my Molotov the special module for the spotter plane (130s active). Because it is much fun to harass other ships.

 

 

Edited by principat121
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I have only Duca (Christmas Container). My Opinion: Surprisingly funny ship but with weak points. Fast... use Speedflag if you have. Good consealment are Pros. Gun range is sometimes difficult (but has spottingplane) . Doesnt like T8 matchmaking. Can use both Hydro and def AA!

 

Guns: Fast, easy to hit with them. HE is crap. Fire Chance Low, often shatters. But AP ist strong!   

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Cool, thanks guys!

 

I never use the spotter plane on any ship I have at the moment, I can't hit anything with that screwed up aerial view :Smile-_tongue: so that's not a bonus for me!

 

On the subject of agility and dodging, the turning circle on Duca doesn't look too great. OK Molotov is really awful in that sense. But still 710m on Duca... hmm... But you guys still say she dodges really well.

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Can't hit a damned thing using the spotter anyway..But ze Lafie likes his Duca.

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If I remember corectly the Duke only has just over 14km range, not brilliant compared with the over 15km range that the Molotov has.  But the Duke turns faster and with speed flags can get to 40 knots.

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Duca has horrendous concealment for it's size. I could live with the short range guns (which are otherwise excellent, at least against DDs and Cruisers), but the concealment guarantees deletion when you fire them.

 

The ship is great fun if you can ride out the AP spam at the start and live long enough to pick on DDs and isolated or engaged targets.

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Happy Duca owner now :Smile_child: ship feels very nice, fast, agile, fantastic gun handling. I even changed my crosshair to try to use the spotter plane. Need a 10 point captain for CE but overall not too bad even with base concealment.

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On ‎23‎-‎04‎-‎2018 at 12:38 PM, VC381 said:

 

36 knots isn't fast? Only 0.5 knots short of Duca. Can't think of any other cruiser that's much faster.

 

 

Interesting, love dodging in cruisers, that sounds fun.

 

 

Are you saying Duca is not as good because she's forced to play at a closer range while being just as fragile?

 

 

Can I ask why this is? We have other ships at T6 with 8x 152mm guns. Leander doesn't feel undergunned. La Gal has 9 guns but slower reload, I thought that had decent firepower. And those ships don't have 1,000m/s muzzle velocity.

 

yeap, the way you are defending Duca, I think you found your answer.

I almost bought Duca but Degrasse won in the end.

If I remember correctly...

Duca's strong points.

-rail guns

- bit faster then Degrasse

- quick rudder and tight turning circle ( I think flamu spoke that was in dd territory in terms of dodging torps, etc, but you will have to check this)

 

weak points

- fragile

- low fire chance. (maybe that will be make the difference)

 

I must say I don't see the need for Molotov, you've got Kirov. Unless you want to do ops. Because Buddy it's strait out better.

 

hey, but you liked, "clicked" with Pensa, perhaps it's your cup of tea.

 

wait a bit more to see from the both who will speak to you the most.

 

p.s.- do you want a more specialized ship? or a glass cannon ship?

 

 

 

upps, I was late.

 

 

 

 

 

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Personally I just adore the Molotovs guns, but cruisers in general at t6 suffer from the doom tier mm ( u are bottom tier majority of the games)  when playing in a div I just have to play either a bb (warsipte/ mutsu) or a dd at t6, simply because of the terrible MM.  My son has the duca and I have played with it a few times, I really liked how its got the hydro and the def aa ( I think it should be universal on all cruisers so that to make them the complete utility class)  as well as its super slow torps ( I really love my kidd/benson/ fletcher) and playing a ship with such slow torps demands that you really read the situations so that you can launch torps predicting where they would be in your head. Overall if your interested in buying them, either as a cruiser trainer or a ship just to have fun in, I approve of both of them, if you like one you will like the other.

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@Butterdoll I wasn't trying to defend Duca, only asking difficult questions to make people explain their opinions more. :fish_book: That way anyone reading this thread can learn more about the ships.

 

It's fine you were late, you made good points. You're right I like glass cannon cruisers. Sometimes I have to read between the lines of what people say to decide if I will like something because there are different experiences and opinions.

 

Anyway, I had Molotov a long time and I really like it. So I kind of knew I would like Duca but that is also why I didn't buy it sooner, because I thought it would be too similar. Hence this thread. And actually what I discovered is it feels quite different, enough to make it fun to have both!

 

@VeryHonarbrah I disagree that T6 is doom tier MM. If T6 was always bottom tier then T8 would be always top tier and that clearly isn't true. Usually T6 is middle tier which is fine. Molotov for sure handles uptier better, everyone should fear those guns. But I had a T8 game in Duca (first game in her actually) and didn't feel like I had a hand tied behind my back. Spotter Plane, farm some safe damage, dodge a bit and pick some cover and a good moment to make a move.

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2 hours ago, VC381 said:

 

 

@VeryHonarbrah I disagree that T6 is doom tier MM. If T6 was always bottom tier then T8 would be always top tier and that clearly isn't true. Usually T6 is middle tier which is fine. Molotov for sure handles uptier better, everyone should fear those guns. But I had a T8 game in Duca (first game in her actually) and didn't feel like I had a hand tied behind my back. Spotter Plane, farm some safe damage, dodge a bit and pick some cover and a good moment to make a move.

+ 1

 

@VeryHonarbrah t6 it's a very well made tier overall in all fronts, random, ops, co-op.

I rather be in a t6 ship vs a t8 than in a t7 ship vs anything, with the exception of gneise and Algerie, the last one it's a serviceable ship.

the rest are just worst than the previous tier.

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6 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

+ 1

 

@VeryHonarbrah t6 it's a very well made tier overall in all fronts, random, ops, co-op.

I rather be in a t6 ship vs a t8 than in a t7 ship vs anything, with the exception of gneise and Algerie, the last one it's a serviceable ship.

the rest are just worst than the previous tier.

I am not saying t6 is not a very well made tier, I think its one of the most balanced in the game, I agree t8 mm is utter horrible as well, but if you have not realised t7 at the moment is the sweet spot for winning matches and getting good MM fact.

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9 hours ago, VC381 said:

@Butterdoll I wasn't trying to defend Duca, only asking difficult questions to make people explain their opinions more. :fish_book: That way anyone reading this thread can learn more about the ships.

 

It's fine you were late, you made good points. You're right I like glass cannon cruisers. Sometimes I have to read between the lines of what people say to decide if I will like something because there are different experiences and opinions.

 

Anyway, I had Molotov a long time and I really like it. So I kind of knew I would like Duca but that is also why I didn't buy it sooner, because I thought it would be too similar. Hence this thread. And actually what I discovered is it feels quite different, enough to make it fun to have both!

 

@VeryHonarbrah I disagree that T6 is doom tier MM. If T6 was always bottom tier then T8 would be always top tier and that clearly isn't true. Usually T6 is middle tier which is fine. Molotov for sure handles uptier better, everyone should fear those guns. But I had a T8 game in Duca (first game in her actually) and didn't feel like I had a hand tied behind my back. Spotter Plane, farm some safe damage, dodge a bit and pick some cover and a good moment to make a move.

Once I get my PC serviced, ill play 10 t6 games in a div and send u the MM spread if you want.

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17 minutes ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

I am not saying t6 is not a very well made tier, I think its one of the most balanced in the game, I agree t8 mm is utter horrible as well, but if you have not realised t7 at the moment is the sweet spot for winning matches and getting good MM fact.

 

yes, you are right the t7 ships have the best MM of 5,6 and 8.

But t7 ships would not hold as good as t6 e.g., if the MM was not as benevolent.

In some forms t7 ships have very similarities with t5, being other transition tier.

t6 it's my election tier and I don't feel  it's got a doomed MM.

yes, you get down tier a fairy amount, but it's not as bad as the 5s and the 8s, and when you are down tiered it's not the end of the world.

 

And with one exception my best results in ops are with t6 ships.

 

Play solo, you will not need to division up.

 

 

 

 

 

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎23 at 1:38 PM, VC381 said:

 

Can I ask why this is? We have other ships at T6 with 8x 152mm guns. Leander doesn't feel undergunned. La Gal has 9 guns but slower reload, I thought that had decent firepower. And those ships don't have 1,000m/s muzzle velocity.

 

When facing same- or higher tier cruisers and battleships, the guns of the Duca D'Aosta are weak. This is due to a combination of her comparatively low number of guns (4x2 is generally weaker than 3x3 and much weaker than 4x3), her low fire chance and her anemic alpha damage. Her spectacular muzzle velocity doesn't help much if those shells that hit do no, or next to no, damage. I once scored ten (10) hits with HE shells on a broadside enemy Myoko at 10 km range, and did exactly zero (0) damage. True, I sort of suck at gunnery, but still. I would probably have done much better firing AP in that situation, so there is that as well.

 

When facing destroyers, or lower-tier cruisers and battleships, the Duca D'Aosta can be absolutely magnificent. She's a wonderful little ship if played to her strengths, especially in Operations. If I could wish for one thing, it would perhaps be an extra kilometre of base range for her main guns, but honestly, she's fine the way she is.

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Yes, I looked it up earlier and the fire chance is indeed atrocious but I've set fires in mine without feeling like they were overly rare. Possibly just luck.

 

I was only making the point that in terms of just total shells per minute, it may be at the low end, but so are a few other T6 cruisers.

 

Anyway it might be a case of varying ammo and aim point. I'm finding the AP hugely satisfying so far. I was getting 4k per salvo reliably on an Arizona angled between 30 and 45 degrees.

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On 25/04/2018 at 12:10 PM, Butterdoll said:

[...]

- bit faster then Degrasse

[...]

 

 

 

Yeah, but can Duca do this?

 

 

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22 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

Yeah, but can Duca do this?

 

 

what?

 

came on man, star trek?

 

I'm more a Galactica kind of guy.

 

 

 

can your Enterprise do this?

 

 

 

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