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KarmaQU_EU

World of Warships lacks atmosphere

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I feel that World of Warships lacks atmosphere... ...

 

This is increasingly becoming a problem as I continue to examine the possibilities in approach for a CV rework.

 

This is because the CV combat experience would highly benefit from atmospheric immersion of the cinematic and artistic kind.

However World of Warships does not exceed at an atmosphere of scale. We know that the in-game distance scales are figurative only. The game core itself is also not designed around grand strategy and depth, but rather hurr-durr direct confrontation.

The way the camera and controls work also do not help to project an illusion of grandeur and spectacle, but diminish and trivialize their subjects and their situation. The special effects could also use a lot of work, as always.

 

This boils back to how WoWs was stemmed from the experiences of making a game in the likes of WoT. While the cozy camera angles and time/size scaling from WoT is suitable for the context of tanks on land warfare, it is wholly underwhelming when applied to ships, and very wanting when applied to planes. To put it into perspective, it is the comparison of actual grand, epic, sci-fi level space combat as imagined, to the two-dimensional "field" of combat we saw an example of in the space battles. I always had the feel that the ships in-game don't feel like venerable ships but more like boats, if not 3D models with HP bars floating on a pond. Battle is not battle and naval is not naval, but rather some weak resemblance.

 

Most games developed for space combat as we know it, either had to represent the context on a two-dimensional 'playing field' for clarity and familiarity's sake, or struggled with making 3-D work. For one, it is hard to control in 3-D fields, and rarely does the complexity warrant a 3-D field either. The best representation of a game utilizing a 3-D field that is still popular would be EVE the online game. Yet even that game is far from what we imagine when we think of genuine space battles, and EVE example is highly situational as well. The depth, strategy and grandeur but without the needless complexity, logistics, tedium, and social-politics from real life. That is why we game, for a more idealized version of reality ... and in the context of MMOs, a more idealized, simplified, fair and simpler social sphere where objective difference can be measured and seen at a glance, and is less chaotic than actual society.

 

While advances in software, hardware, A.I., and spatial control schemes (think google "project soli" millimeter radar) may enable more possibilities ... yet even the likes of touchscreen keyboards, 3-D spatial mouse control (engineers have used a hardware version of a 3D pen for a long time already), is still far from mass-market reality.

 

But getting off-tracked ... ...

 

Anyways. So in context of CV rework, it is not just a problem of finding a way to make the complexity and depth of an aerial sphere work with the current system of a game, but also how to shoehorn the highly atmospheric and 'airy' context of an aerial sphere into the candy-version of naval battles as we have it.

 

As en example: The ships are represented wholly without additional "human" element to it despite being historically manned by thousands of men, because we know in-game that there is one player behind the controls of each ship thus the ship is an extension of the human element of this player instead of itself. However, for planes, it is difficult to visualize all the planes not manned by tiny pilots but instead mutually guided by some kind of hive-mind culminating into the image of the player who is playing CV. It is simply not logically fitting. And despite WoWs not being a MMO, agency and characterization is still a very valid topic of concern for game design here.

 

More-so, the aerial sphere is quite 3-D, just like supposedly imagined and ideal space battles. However in-game it is not so. It would be ... rather difficult to portray it as so. Whether it is necessary or even better off as so is another question altogether, but firstly it would be unquestionably difficult to do so. Especially concerning WG's extensive game-making experience*. And the lack of established prior examples in all of computer game history to reference from.

 

It also does not help that most flight games are centered firmly around the "one-player one-plane" core. It is rare to find a game where the player controls a whole squad of "anything" except in traditional RPGs, and even those are mainly turn-based and not real-time. I'm talking about how CV gameplay could be about controlling many multiples of 'individual' assets, not multiples of 'non-individual' assets as in traditional RTS where you mass the 'faceless cannon fodder army' and attack-click them to their doom. No, this would simply be unacceptable and profound disrespect to the context (though I once argued the meatgrinder gameplay with surface ships is disrespectful too but who cares). I will not bother to explain why the first option is superior to the latter if possible to execute.

 

Differing approaches to the CV rework ... ... 

Whether to focus on gameplay aspect, e.g. mental ergonomics,

Whether to make CV into a match-level gimmick, e.g. fun match-changing aspect. Or game-level, such as progression, seasons, match design ...

Whether to make CV into the role of separate and standalone, e.g. aerial skill trees, or to subordinate it to current gameplay sphere. (This is ironic because historically it was reverse, surface sphere became secondary to aerial sphere)

and a lot more vastly differing approaches can't remember fully atm.

 

... ... I don't think I will ever finish that CV rework writeup. My morale and interest for this game hit rock bottom long time ago.

Forums is salt mines. Game is disinteresting (to me). Production quality is ... um ... not exceedingly impressive (cough), (not atmospheric in this case), and have no urge to spend money or buy premiums. The Ashitaka camo was interesting, the guy's art is quite impressive, and I have the Ashitaka, but shell-out additional for the camo? Need to learn to do business better. Make more enticing products. Make truly impressive works, not just products.

 

Though what I think is impressive would probably not overlap with majority of general users ... and even some actual critics. Better to go candy-crush route to be safe and appeal to lowest common denominator.

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3 minutes ago, principat121 said:

tl;dr

 

DramaQueenEU stikes again with another superfluous thread!

:cap_like:

write my TL;DR for me then.

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11 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

I feel that World of Warships lacks atmosphere... ..

Then stop playing space battles and come down to the water, plenty of atmosphere there :Smile-_tongue:

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Ah as always the most important thing is what I always forget to write ...

 

What I feel is that despite WoWs supposedly (and even as WG claim) to be a game that celebrates the engineering and the ships themselves, the game is instead designed to cater to zero-point attention span masses who prioritize the egoistic social elements over actual thinking, and gratification over artistic.

 

The lack of a deeper atmosphere than just ambient sound effects. The culmination of many things to create a logical structure the game itself may dwell in. An artistic work.

 

Thus the game lacks a human element of the type that is kind and enduring and truthful. This is why it loses players and generates toxicity. Why all attempts at depth are shallow and trivial. Why the game cannot appeal to more, and cannot last longer in the minds of its players, and cannot compete against other games possessing such excellence. It generates less passion and loyalty than some games, and less business than others. (Though in the kind of market and social economy we face today, it may not very much matter ... entertainment is just business after all, and education is politics, and art is also just business and paparazzi ... ... I'd better stop.)

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15 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

 

Thank you

i dont want more "Artistic" bs that to dmg my eyes there is enough effects that we cant switch off....now and shaky camera great great shift+del

here we are about the Ships IN water more aerial is WoWPs. separate game mode just for CVs where they can play more with their fighters, why not.

i think that you forgot the fact that WoWs is using 1 CPU core atm.....

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I just wish there was more variety in gunsounds and maybe engine sounds also maybe alarm sounds. As per usual in every wargaming game the amount of sounds present for guns nevermind anything is minimal especially wot sounds (which are god awful at best).

 

also wish wargaming would hurry up and make their games multicore already. 

 

That and also a chance to get camos even if they have no stat value premeantly even if its through missions or something.

 

and maybe more varied maps with maybe cities in the distance, night fighting and aa guns blitzing in the distance or whatever to make it seem like your actually fighting for something half the time.

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Sounds like you want an entirely different game, pretty sure you'd have figured this out after 4K+ battles? The scope of change you want would require an entire change to well, everything.

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I think there's a gap in the market for a Harpoon style 1900 to 1945 naval combat game.

 

That would have the sense of scale that the OP is looking for.

 

Scale is impossible to do with World of Warships without making gameplay exceedingly long and boring.

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5 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

More-so, the aerial sphere is quite 3-D, just like supposedly imagined and ideal space battles.

Space battles are often unintuitively 1D due to the constraints of delta-V and orbital mechanics.

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Well I did read it and I wish I could have the time back. 

 

If you don't like the game then don't play it.

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1 hour ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

Well I did read it and I wish I could have the time back. 

 

If you don't like the game then don't play it.

 

He's been claiming (and whining interminably) that he gave up playing the game ages ago, slight hole in that is I had him on the same team a few weeks back while he was being utterly useless in Yamato. He moaned for 5 minutes until he was killed then moaned in spectator mode until the game was lost. 

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15 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

He's been claiming (and whining interminably) that he gave up playing the game ages ago, slight hole in that is I had him on the same team a few weeks back while he was being utterly useless in Yamato. He moaned for 5 minutes until he was killed then moaned in spectator mode until the game was lost. 

Seriously you've been remembering that specific detail when even I've forgotten about it.

I have good games and bad games. Just like everyone. Don't hold it against me.

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I actually kinda agree with the OP's heading, "WoWS lacks atmosphere" -- but for different reasons.

 

The game's of course quite abstracted to make it approachable for a large audience, and that's fine.

 

But visually I don't always understand why the game needs to be so arcade-y. I always understood WG's paradigm to be "as close to real as possible while maintaining balanced gameplay". But to me Warhips deviates from this more than Tanks and Warplanes, when it comes to visuals.

 

I'll give the anime stuff a pass -- I don't get it, but I can hide it so I don't have to get it.

 

But then we have all these event camos, which I CAN'T hide.

 

Someone out there at WG is spending actual working hours on these, and I don't get it. They look like [edited], almost without exception. The halloween ones not like [edited]though, because they look like someone vomited on my ship.

 

I don't understand why they need to look like this. Historical or at least historically-flavoured, semi-realistic camos would simply look better, and you could use those as event prizes just as well. WG spends countless hours on these absolutely gorgeous models -- and then we slap on fugly camos for no good reason.

 

 

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I agree that there should be a button or whatnot to disable certain camos but to say the game lacks atmosphere? I disagree. Although I dont know about you guys but with visual settings maxed out and with a decent headset this game is atmospheric AF. If you want more atmosphere you should try skyrim. :cap_popcorn: It is and always will be an arcade naval warfare game. 

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6 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I actually kinda agree with the OP's heading, "WoWS lacks atmosphere" -- but for different reasons.

 

The game's of course quite abstracted to make it approachable for a large audience, and maybe more so than Tanks and Warplanes. 

 

But visually I don't always understand why the game needs to be so arcade-y. I always understood WG's paradigm to be "as close to real as possible while maintaining balanced gameplay". But to me Warhips deviates from this more than Tanks and Warplanes, when it comes to visuals.

 

I'll give the anime stuff a pass -- I don't get it, but I can hide it so I don't have to get it.

 

But then we have all these event camos, which I CAN'T hide.

 

Someone out there at WG is spending actual working hours on these, and I don't get it. They look like [edited], almost without exception. The halloween ones not like [edited]though, because they look like someone vomited on my ship.

 

I don't understand why they need to look like this. Historical or at least historically-flavoured, semi-realistic camos would simply look better, and you could use those as event prizes just as well.

 

 

 

giphy.gif

 

(Nearly) exactely my thoughts. I only skimmed OP's text and what I took from it was... I don't even know what it was but certainly not a major issue that needs to be fixed or looked into for whatever reason.

 

However, I agree that WoWS loses its atmosphere although I wouldn't describe it as harshly as @jss78. Anime stuff is cool and all because it doesn't really change that much of the ships themselves. I can live with the Halloween camos  because some of them I find really nice. I even find the latest spaceship skins interesting (although IMO releasing "camos" which change the ships appearance in other ways than just adding a different colour scheme is quesitonable).

However, the latest additions and ideas for additions ... I don't know if "They turn me off" is the right expression but I think you know what I mean. It started with the French "Gold of France" camos which basically look like Emperor Karl Franz and is family want to take a spin in WoWS and couldn't do so without an appropriate ship. It just looks like straight from the Warhammer universe with all the ornaments pinned to it and polished so the enemy can shave their own beards from 10 km away.

According to the Dev Blog on FB, the next things will be something similar for the new USN Cleveland. And we will also get football patches which I - as much as I like this game and appreciate the work people put into it - don't understand at all.

 

I'd like to have WG stay more with historical themes for their camos or at least not implement something which looks like it was on its way into a fantasy or steampunk universe and somehow landed here.

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5 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Seriously you've been remembering that specific detail when even I've forgotten about it.

I have good games and bad games. Just like everyone. Don't hold it against me.

 

I remember it because you make such a fuss about the game being bad, your not playing at all and you being so incredibly boring on the forum, your hypocrisy and tedium stands out so that you're memorable; for all the wrong reasons.

 

As to the game lacking "atmosphere" just arrange for someone you know (possible that there's one person who you haven't bored to death) to throw buckets of brine at you occasionally while periodically letting off shrapnel grenades near you and setting you on fire, that would add what you seek. 

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1 hour ago, jss78 said:

(...)

I'll give the anime stuff a pass -- I don't get it, but I can hide it so I don't have to get it.

 

But then we have all these event camos, which I CAN'T hide.

 

Someone out there at WG is spending actual working hours on these, and I don't get it. They look like [edited], almost without exception. The halloween ones not like [edited]though, because they look like someone vomited on my ship.

(...)

The halloween camos are hardly the worst offenders, as far as I'm concerned. There are some MUCH worse cases. Even for me - and I'm one of these people who don't care for things being historical. I mean, I like my ARP content and my Zao is a f*cking spaceship. I also have all the "special" stuff enabled, whether I use it or not. So it's not like I'm all preoccupied with things looking "historical" or even "realistic". But when I don't want to miss on my economical bonuses, so I end up sailing around in a striped pajama straight from an old cartoon featuring a prison escapee... :fish_palm:

It hurts. Just a little bit, but it does.

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10 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

 

... ... I don't think I will ever finish that CV rework writeup. My morale and interest for this game hit rock bottom long time ago.

Forums is salt mines. Game is disinteresting (to me)...

So why do you stick around?  

 

I lost interest in EvE many years ago, so I just I walked away.  Why do you stay with World of Warships?

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8 hours ago, jss78 said:

 

But then we have all these event camos, which I CAN'T hide.

 

 

 

 

Right now I'm finding that the mod that removes camo is causing client crashes so I'm running WoWS in safe mode and those camo jobs are terrible.  Very bad to have your immersion undermined.  In the tanks you can turn the ahistoric elements off...  We really need the same option in WoWS.

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I think atmosphere isn't that important in competitive multiplayer games. First and foremost they need to be functional, and atmospheric effects often contradict ease of use and functionality. World of Warships looks well enough for its purpose except for obvious graphical errors and glitches.

 

@BeauNidl3 Personal attacks have no place in any forum or discussion. Learn to discuss properly or don't say anything at all.

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@jss78

Which event camo you cannot hide? I think that there is not a sinlge one that you have to see, which you do not like.

 

edit:

Ok, I have to admit: the french ones. I hope they will change that.

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7 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

So why do you stick around?  

 

I lost interest in EvE many years ago, so I just I walked away.  Why do you stay with World of Warships?

Same here. 

 

If you really stopped playing: walk away OP. 

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I don't care about stupid mechanics like ships firing from inside a smokescreen. I don't care about dumb colourful camouflages. I don't care about not seeing a single sailor on the ships... What really makes this game so unrealistic to me is that ships don't behave like ships.

 

Every time I see a ship reversing in open water or stopped inside a smoke screen, every time I see a commander crashing his ship into the rocks without consequences... All this has NOTHING to do with a naval game, arcade or not. It's just World of Tanks without the hills.

 

And then we have the TIE Fighter carriers, but that's another story...

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19 minutes ago, JapLance said:

I don't care about stupid mechanics like ships firing from inside a smokescreen. I don't care about dumb colourful camouflages. I don't care about not seeing a single sailor on the ships... What really makes this game so unrealistic to me is that ships don't behave like ships.

 

Every time I see a ship reversing in open water or stopped inside a smoke screen, every time I see a commander crashing his ship into the rocks without consequences... All this has NOTHING to do with a naval game, arcade or not. It's just World of Tanks without the hills.

 

And then we have the TIE Fighter carriers, but that's another story...

Start picking at this and you'll experience that bar the most faithful of flight sims, absolutely all games have huge glaring inconsistencies as far as realism is concerned.

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