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GeneralSavage

Does short fuse AP mechanic of RN BBs exist in WoWs?

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I'm asking this since I'm just getting over pens with Orion on even the most lightly armored cruisers like Emile while landing 11k volleys with citadel hits, incapacitation and fires with HE (on cruisers). Also would like to mention that this instance is on broadside cruisers and not at some other angle.

If my facts are right, short fuse AP can be devastating for cruisers since it can lead to more number of penetrations than over pens. It doesn't feel like it, imo. Maybe we have to aim differently (not waterline, that is)? Or does this short fuse mechanic really matter in the game?

 

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It does, but cruiser in the low tiers are notoriously weakly armoured. The Emile Bertin is one of those ships where you're basically guarenteed to overpen unless you hit the citadel or the ships is angled enough for the AP to go through the ship lengthwise far enough to explode inside.

 

Concurrently, I found that sailing perfectly broadside was the safest way for the Emile Bertin, because almost everything that hit would overpen :Smile_trollface:

 

For the low tiers, in the Orion I'd just stick to HE even against cruisers. With its 1/4 HE pen rule, it can citadel almost every cruiser it meets with HE and even if you don't you mess it up good. AP is only worth it on battleships because you won't overpen those.

 

AP gets more reliable at higher tiers when cruisers get more armour (not that it helps much against BB AP unless it autobounces ...).

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Short fuse works fine, but at the T4 level of Orion the cruisers you're shooting at really have less armour value than damp toilet roll, it's not hard to overpen. Emile has a very trollish armour scheme too with some spaced bits.

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3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

It does, but cruiser in the low tiers are notoriously weakly armoured. The Emile Bertin is one of those ships where you're basically guarenteed to overpen unless you hit the citadel or the ships is angled enough for the AP to go through the ship lengthwise far enough to explode inside.

 

Concurrently, I found that sailing perfectly broadside was the safest way for the Emile Bertin, because almost everything that hit would overpen :Smile_trollface:

 

For the low tiers, in the Orion I'd just stick to HE even against cruisers. With its 1/4 HE pen rule, it can citadel almost every cruiser it meets with HE and even if you don't you mess it up good. AP is only worth it on battleships because you won't overpen those.

 

AP gets more reliable at higher tiers when cruisers get more armour (not that it helps much against BB AP unless it autobounces ...).

 

2 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Short fuse works fine, but at the T4 level of Orion the cruisers you're shooting at really have less armour value than damp toilet roll, it's not hard to overpen. Emile has a very trollish armour scheme too with some spaced bits.

So does that mean that I can rely on AP in Queen Elizabeth and KGV that I'm really interested in? I have Jack Dunkirk with CE to use as well. So I'm hoping to reliably fight cruisers at those tiers, correct?

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sfAP doesn't mean the fuse is more sensitive. It means that once the fuse is armed the shell explodes earlier, leading to less overpens but can make a shell explode before reaching the citadel of some ships.

Thus if you shoot weakly armored sections of a ship that won't arm the fuse, sfAP will overpen just as easily as normal AP shells.

 

QE has pretty good AP shells, KGV ones are garbage.

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4 minutes ago, GeneralSavage said:

So does that mean that I can rely on AP in Queen Elizabeth and KGV that I'm really interested in? I have Jack Dunkirk with CE to use as well. So I'm hoping to reliably fight cruisers at those tiers, correct?

Yes you can in general, though you'll still see the odd flimsly tier V cruisers in both those ships.

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QE and KGV AP worked fine for me, you will also upset some people who assume since a lot are just HE spammers so can safely sail broadside to you and your AP will be a nasty shock.

 

QE's guns however are not overly reliable, I disliked the ship unlike the Warspite which is grand.

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2 hours ago, GeneralSavage said:

I'm asking this since I'm just getting over pens with Orion on even the most lightly armored cruisers like Emile while landing 11k volleys with citadel hits, incapacitation and fires with HE (on cruisers). Also would like to mention that this instance is on broadside cruisers and not at some other angle.

If my facts are right, short fuse AP can be devastating for cruisers since it can lead to more number of penetrations than over pens. It doesn't feel like it, imo. Maybe we have to aim differently (not waterline, that is)? Or does this short fuse mechanic really matter in the game?

 

You got the short fuse idea slightly wrong

 

Normal fuse or short fuse - doesn't affect fuses sensitivity. Orions 343mm guns need to pass through about 57mm of armour to arm the fuse (I'm sure you can see how this is a problem when firing at lightly armoured targets)

 

What changes is that while usually AP shell will explode 0.03s after arming (you could say that generally after about 25m of extra distance covered) the sAP will explode in half of that time - 0.015s (so about 13m after arming)

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Next time try to aim at something that does actually have armor. 

 

While a great ship, the Emil has basically no armor, your shells were probably going straight through him without even arming despite the short fuse, or detonating on the other side. (aka overpenning)

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Concurrently, I found that sailing perfectly broadside was the safest way for the Emile Bertin, because almost everything that hit would overpen :Smile_trollface:

Indeed.

 

The biggest problems with the ship I had was when enemy shells were flying towards me, and my instincts kicked in and I angled. Bad idea. I found it surprisingly hard to suppress that instinct btw.

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2 hours ago, GeneralSavage said:

If my facts are right, short fuse AP can be devastating for cruisers since it can lead to more number of penetrations than over pens. It doesn't feel like it, imo. Maybe we have to aim differently (not waterline, that is)? Or does this short fuse mechanic really matter in the game?

Your confusion comes from the fact that there are two ways an overpen can occur. Basically, an overpen is one of the two

a) the shell exited the ship before detonating. Basically, it hit the ship, triggered and went boom - but all that took too much time and the shell was already out of the ship when going boom. Short fuses on AP help with this: the shell explodes pretty much immediately (which can also screw you over in specific scenarios like hitting "spaced armor" that some french cruisers have).

b) the shell never even armed. Basically, the shell never realized it was inside of a ship (and supposed to go boom) in the first place. Short fuse doesn't help since it never gets triggered.

 

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Thanks guys. Learned a lot from y'all. Seems like I fantasized about dev striking with RN BBs a bit too much.

Guess I'll have to keep the dev strike fantasy alive with Lyon.:cap_look:

 

 

EDIT: @Aotearas @wilkatis_LV @El2aZeR Does short fuse AP have any peculiar advantage over normal AP, practically speaking?

Edited by GeneralSavage

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19 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

QE and KGV AP worked fine for me, you will also upset some people who assume since a lot are just HE spammers so can safely sail broadside to you and your AP will be a nasty shock.

You must have got lucky with KGV then, the armour penetration curves suggest it has terrible penetration for T7 (less than Colorado, HMS Hood, QE, probably even less than the Kongo). I find that even when the 14" shells do hit (which can be a rarity they just tend to overpen, like the shell's fuse is defective. A salvo I fired at a broadside BB (forget which one, maybe a Gneisenau, or Tirpitz?) at close-ish range resulted in two overpens, two shatters and most missed. Aside from the shocking accuracy, this proves that some British BB's have the worst AP for the tier. 

 

However, I ran my QE almost exclusively with AP (you know, like a BB should be doing) and the results were great: citadels against everything squishy, lots of pens on BB's and even the odd citadel on a Tirpitz. After 'upgrading' to KGV, I'm kind of wishing I didn't sell QE. Maybe I'll get one of the premiums with the 15"/42's, they look pretty nice.

35 minutes ago, GeneralSavage said:

Seems like I fantasized about dev striking with RN BBs a bit too much

I think the RN BB line prefers its victims well done, like a steak. If one attacks you, it is the most annoying experience I can think of in WoWs: you just watch your HP bleed away, knowing there is nothing you can do to extinguish the three fires they set in one salvo (because RNG). It takes little skill, just a heap of luck. You'll have to get the NC or something similar: I think that could dev strike most other ships thanks to its accuracy and unbelievable penetration.

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1 hour ago, Centurion_1711 said:

I think the RN BB line prefers its victims well done, like a steak. If one attacks you, it is the most annoying experience I can think of in WoWs: you just watch your HP bleed away, knowing there is nothing you can do to extinguish the three fires they set in one salvo (because RNG). It takes little skill, just a heap of luck. You'll have to get the NC or something similar: I think that could dev strike most other ships thanks to its accuracy and unbelievable penetration.

Got to Iowa after getting fed up of German dispersion. Very recently got myself a Richelieu. I always knew that QE/Warspite guns were great for T6 because of caliber and accuracy. Also have an ageing Jack Dunkirk. So I thought why not give a try? 

After reading above posts I am interested in getting QE. But man is it the squishiest BB I've ever faced. No citadel hits but you can land minimum 10k volleys at any range with any BB at any angle too. Even my CLs land full Pens on its 5 star hotel...err...I mean deck.

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59 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

You must have got lucky with KGV then, the armour penetration curves suggest it has terrible penetration for T7 (less than Colorado, HMS Hood, QE, probably even less than the Kongo). I find that even when the 14" shells do hit (which can be a rarity they just tend to overpen, like the shell's fuse is defective. A salvo I fired at a broadside BB (forget which one, maybe a Gneisenau, or Tirpitz?) at close-ish range resulted in two overpens, two shatters and most missed. Aside from the shocking accuracy, this proves that some British BB's have the worst AP for the tier. 

 

However, I ran my QE almost exclusively with AP (you know, like a BB should be doing) and the results were great: citadels against everything squishy, lots of pens on BB's and even the odd citadel on a Tirpitz. After 'upgrading' to KGV, I'm kind of wishing I didn't sell QE. Maybe I'll get one of the premiums with the 15"/42's, they look pretty nice.

 

KGV has high close range pen (5-10km) and it's about the same as QE/Hood at 15km. Don't underestimate it.

DoY gets US cruiser/Hood bounce angles too... Just don't aim for thick BB belts, they've been designed with lower pen like KM BBs.

 

Emile needs to be bow on to ~25 degrees for a BB shell to arm staying on topic.

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2 hours ago, GeneralSavage said:

Does short fuse AP have any peculiar advantage over normal AP, practically speaking?

 

As I stated before, sfAP is less likely to overpen once the fuse is armed. On the flipside the shell may explode before reaching the citadel.

Generally speaking it can be said that you'll get less overpens but will score fewer citadel hits on some BBs. It's more of a trade-off rather than a direct advantage.

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3 hours ago, GeneralSavage said:

EDIT: @Aotearas @wilkatis_LV @El2aZeR Does short fuse AP have any peculiar advantage over normal AP, practically speaking?

Exactly as El2aZeR said - you are less likely to score a citadel hit (especially vs BB) but at the same time it's far less likely that the shell will overpen (again - especially vs BB)

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