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KubusSc7

can we get rid of the tier 4+1?

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I played 6 games in my tier 8 ships. 5 of them were tier 10, 1 was tier 9. And this is a normal day. I get ridicolous rare tier 8 games in my tier 8 ships. The fault is easily found: that tier 4+1 matchmaking. Wargaming, can you please remove it? It is killing this game in the long run. Tier 7 gets top tier most of the time. Tier 8 gets bottom tier most of the time. Why not make it...you know...equal, like it was before it was screwed up? I seriously don't want to play tier 8 anymore. Which is a shame, because it's the most historical themed tier with the most famous WW2 ships.

Can we please change it again?

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Also tier 5 gets all the tier 7 games, which hits newbies in the face like a brick wall. Oh you like the kongo? Why not get Kaga'd. Omaha your taste? Enjoy Scharnhorst tearing you a new one. Just bought the minekaze? Bam! Suprise Belfast. 

Because tier 7 also happens to contain the most "extra-balanced" premiums

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It would just move the issue 1 tier lower ..

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Said it before, going to say again - battle tiers 11 (t9 + t10 ships) and 12 (t10 ships) would fix it

 

9s and 8s getting better MM would pull 7s out of their godlike "always top tier" MM which in turn would relieve 6s and 5s

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10 minutes ago, lup3s said:

It would just move the issue 1 tier lower ..

No. This problem exist solely because of tier 4 only getting into tier 5 matches. If every single tier had +-2 again, there wouldn't be a tier that sees other tiers at a disproportional higher rate, except tier 9 because it's the end of the line, but they are more balanced towards tier 10 than tier 8s are.

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Just now, KubusSc7 said:

No. This problem exist solely because of tier 4 only getting into tier 5 matches. If every single tier had +-2 again, there wouldn't be a tier that sees other tiers at a disproportional higher rate, except tier 9 because it's the end of the line, but they are more balanced towards tier 10 than tier 8s are.

 

So tier 4 would become the current tier 5?

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1 minute ago, lup3s said:

 

So tier 4 would become the current tier 5?

Tier 4 would be able to face tier 5s and tier 6s, 2 tiers higher and lower, like every other tier as well. The current tier 5's don't see tier 3s, means they get into tier 6 and tier 7 matches most of the time, where tier 7 is the highest amount because tier 6s dont see tier 4s.

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Just now, KubusSc7 said:

Tier 4 would be able to face tier 5s and tier 6s, 2 tiers higher and lower, like every other tier as well. The current tier 5's don't see tier 3s, means they get into tier 6 and tier 7 matches most of the time, where tier 7 is the highest amount because tier 6s dont see tier 4s.

Yes but tier 4s can't see tier 2s

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Just now, lup3s said:

Yes but tier 4s can't see tier 2s

And who in all seriousness cares about tier 2s? You gridn through that in 3 games, tops. The differences in strength in the first 4 tiers is not as big as the higher tiers. 2 doesnt have problems facing 4 like 8 has problems facing 10.

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I'd sooner try +1/-1 for all tiers. At least during high-population hours. Have the MM dynamically revert to +2/-2 when necessary.

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12 minutes ago, KubusSc7 said:

And who in all seriousness cares about tier 2s?

 

It matters to the topic at hand. T7 is currently top tier so often because T4 has protected MM. If you remove protected MM from T4 but not from T3, you're just bumping the issue a tier lower.

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9 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I'd sooner try +1/-1 for all tiers. At least during high-population hours. Have the MM dynamically revert to +2/-2 when necessary.

Good idea

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28 minutes ago, KubusSc7 said:

...This problem exist solely because of tier 4 only getting into tier 5 matches...

Tier 4 has no effect on tier 10 MM.

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Vor 16 Minuten, jss78 sagte:

I'd sooner try +1/-1 for all tiers. At least during high-population hours. Have the MM dynamically revert to +2/-2 when necessary.

fortunately

Zitat

There are no plans to +1/-1 MM. Each ship can kill other. Nagato has more chances to kill Ibuki than to die.

https://thedailybounce.net/2018/04/17/world-of-warships-developers-qa/

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49 minutes ago, KubusSc7 said:

Tier 4 would be able to face tier 5s and tier 6s, 2 tiers higher and lower, like every other tier as well.

4s can't meet 2s. And there is a very good reason why 4s can't meet 6s anymore

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You know MM already has rules to make you wait longer and make 100% sure you are top tier after too many games as bottom tier (don't remember how many). Easiest solution would be to tighten that up.

 

But really, there is no easy solution because it depends how many people are trying to play each tier. And it's not even about total numbers, it will change every minute you try to queue because it depends how many spare people there are who are not already in a game. If nobody is playing T10, T8s get T10 games. If everyone is playing T10, T8s get T10 games because there is never an exactly right number of people playing the right classes at T10, so there will be gaps. The difference is in the first case the game is 80% T8, 10% T9 and 10% T10, which is opposite in the second case.

 

Another solution (which I keep saying) is to force proportions. In any 2-tier spread, no more than 3 or 4 ships per team that are top tier, 4 or 5 middle tier and the rest must be bottom tier. Being bottom tier is not really painful if there are lots of others.

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9 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

4s can't meet 2s. And there is a very good reason why 4s can't meet 6s anymore

Indeed. The massacre of T6 Fusos and New Mexicos by T4 Imperators was too brutal. Fuso and New Mexico much needed that protection and having Imperator banned from T6 was the right choice.

 

Please don't repeat that again. Save the poor T6 BBs.

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Said it before, going to say again - battle tiers 11 (t9 + t10 ships) and 12 (t10 ships) would fix it

 

9s and 8s getting better MM would pull 7s out of their godlike "always top tier" MM which in turn would relieve 6s and 5s

Heard this a few times before. It sounds good but what will it actually result in? Will it work with the current number of T9 + T10 ships that are played without making queueueu times longer? I don't know the maths behind it.

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The same thing that we have been saying since BETA..... use the old Tanks MM ....

 

Battle Tiers 1 through 12

 

BT 12 T10  (11,12) 

BT 11 T9 , 10, (11)

BT10 T8, 9, 10

BT 9 T7, 8, 9

BT8 T6, 7, 8

BT 7 T5, 6, 7

BT 6 T4, 5, 6

BT 5 T4, 5

BT 4 T3, 4

BT3 T2, 3

BT2 T1, 2

BT 1 T1

 

So for example you take a Tier 5 ship, MM will place you in a match based on BT 5, 6 or 7 then randomly (ish) generate a team based on THAT Battle Tier, some level of protection remains fpr Tiers 1 through 4 however it steps a bit at 4 as you will 1/3rd of the time see a Tier 6 ship, but look at Tier 9, for example these ships will be eligible for BT 9 to 11 meaning that 1/3rd of the games it will be bottom/top and middle tier.... same with T10, if it is 'bottom' then it is an all T10 battle..... see WG easily fixed so everyone is happy !!

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8 Games in tier 8 ships. 7 of them were tier 10s. 1 was tier 9. I don't know about you, but this is my daily life in wows. I am fed up with it...

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15 minutes ago, KubusSc7 said:

8 Games in tier 8 ships. 7 of them were tier 10s. 1 was tier 9. I don't know about you, but this is my daily life in wows. I am fed up with it...

This is everybody´s life, and everybody hates it, apart from the few donkeys who will tell you everything is fine, since all they do is play TX.

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22 minutes ago, KubusSc7 said:

8 Games in tier 8 ships. 7 of them were tier 10s. 1 was tier 9. I don't know about you, but this is my daily life in wows. I am fed up with it...

 

I only play T8 when I have to - missions and suchlike - but I can't say I'm too bothered when I end up in T10. Quite often I end on one of the first three places either on the winning or losing side, with more T10 below than ahead of me.

 

T8 can do good in T10 battles. Not always, but often.

Tons of potatoes in T10 ships make sure of that... :cap_cool:

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2 hours ago, KubusSc7 said:

I played 6 games in my tier 8 ships. 5 of them were tier 10, 1 was tier 9. And this is a normal day. I get ridicolous rare tier 8 games in my tier 8 ships. The fault is easily found: that tier 4+1 matchmaking. Wargaming, can you please remove it? It is killing this game in the long run. Tier 7 gets top tier most of the time. Tier 8 gets bottom tier most of the time. Why not make it...you know...equal, like it was before it was screwed up? I seriously don't want to play tier 8 anymore. Which is a shame, because it's the most historical themed tier with the most famous WW2 ships.

Can we please change it again?

Aye. Make the entire game either +1 or +2.

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1 hour ago, Tekacko said:

This is everybody´s life, and everybody hates it, apart from the few donkeys who will tell you everything is fine, since all they do is play TX.

Which they can because of permacamo's, which was the worst idea since lets try conqueror with a radar.

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2 hours ago, Tekacko said:

This is everybody´s life, and everybody hates it, apart from the few donkeys who will tell you everything is fine, since all they do is play TX.

This isn't my life and I don't hate it :Smile_trollface:

My Akizuki seems to be top tier often enough - and fares well even when at the bottom :Smile-_tongue:

 

More seriously - if you stick to one t8 ship, you make use of the anti-frustration mechanism that guarantees you being top tier every 4th match, if I'm correct (maybe it was every 5th, but I think the former is correct). The system works on ship-by-ship basis, however, so if you switch ships (and have bad luck) you can see more bottom tier matches in a row.

 

Another interesting thing to mention is that the stats actually suggest that t8s aren't top tier less often than "their fair share". Even on EU (that's much worse than others, seems we have a relatively bigger t10 population) we see roughly 1/3 of t8 games to be top tier. The big inequality lies elsewhere: t8 ships are very rarely MIDDLE tier. Basically, you get your share of top tier fun (although such matches tend to be full of t8s, so you are a big fish but among many other big fish), but when you're not top tier, you end up on the bottom - the middle ground is very narrow.

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