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Tr1umph

Graf Zeppelin is pay2win

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Playing any t8 carrier vs this thing is straight up freeloss. 

 

2 torpedo bombers like the japanese while having way more fighters so they can beat both JAP and US in 1on1 Air combat.

All of her airplanes are also faster, so you can never catch them on the retreat, their bombers can outrun your fighters. 

This also gives them a huge advantage in strafing.

 

And even if you wipe out their entire squad several times with strafing, they still have enough airplanes to restock while you slowly run out. 

 

Meanwhile it also has better concealment then the other carriers and enough AA to stress any attacking airplane. 

 

Where is the balance?


This ship is a elite premium, you are not able to buy it or unlock it, it has literally no disadvantages and is better than any other t8 carrier or any t8 ship by all means. 


Why the [edited]is something like that in the game this is by definition PAY2WIN. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Tr1umph said:

And even if you wipe out their entire squad several times with strafing, they still have enough airplanes to restock while you slowly run out. 

Erm, no?

 

In the 1/2/1 setup (you've been talking about two TB squadrons after all) GZ has a total of 16 fighters, including your first squadron. So that's one full squadron in reserve plus your starting one. If you have the AS captain skill, it's one full squadron at 9 fighters and only 7 fighters in reserve (not a full refill).

 

I won't bother with the rest of the post.

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What to say, like a  BB, going close to cap, to help and support, got one shoted by the AP bombs :), 0 dmg game, 0 contribution to game, waste of flags and camo, back to port after 3 minutes of game. Learned my lesson, hugging the border next time...:D

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31 minutes ago, Tr1umph said:

 

 

Meanwhile it also has better concealment then the other carriers and enough AA to stress any attacking airplane. 

 

 

 

zep

 

Surface Detectability Range16.2 km.
Air Detectability Range13.83 km

 

 

shokaku

 

Surface Detectability Range12.42 km.
Air Detectability Range11.97 km.

 

enterprise

 

Surface Detectability Range14.58 km.

Air Detectability Range13.77 km.

 

lexington

 

Surface Detectability Range17.46 km

Air Detectability Range15.03 km.

 

So, 3rd place out of 4, much best! very bestest!!

 

Since all t8+ CVs have defensive fire, and fairly decent AAA, they ALL "stress" attacking airplanes.

 

Is this a thread where we get to pick one line each that's absurd to the extreme and pick apart?

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16 minutes ago, N00Boo7 said:

What to say, like a  BB, going close to cap, to help and support, got one shoted by the AP bombs :), 0 dmg game, 0 contribution to game, waste of flags and camo, back to port after 3 minutes of game. Learned my lesson, hugging the border next time...:D

 

That's an argument against AP bombs, not Graf Sepp. They are fun, you can't defend against them, save for joining the lemmingtrain to the map border. A genius weapon "against campers". :Smile_trollface:

And pity the heavy cruiser that thinks he's immune to them. :fish_boom:

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20 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

 

zep

 

Surface Detectability Range16.2 km.
Air Detectability Range13.83 km

 

 

shokaku

 

Surface Detectability Range12.42 km.
Air Detectability Range11.97 km.

 

enterprise

 

Surface Detectability Range14.58 km.

Air Detectability Range13.77 km.

 

lexington

 

Surface Detectability Range17.46 km

Air Detectability Range15.03 km.

 

So, 3rd place out of 4, much best! very bestest!!

 

Since all t8+ CVs have defensive fire, and fairly decent AAA, they ALL "stress" attacking airplanes.

 

Is this a thread where we get to pick one line each that's absurd to the extreme and pick apart?

 

Yes but you see, GZ has hydro is GZ super duper OP p2w

 

Honestly I'm joking about it, but the one match as a DD in which I met a GZ, I was almost killed by the hydro+secondary combo.
Turns out a GZ has enough speed, armor and HP to turn around and rush a low HP Maass:Smile_teethhappy: almost to death 

 

 

Removing CV from the game is the only fix.

 

Can't wait to have all the XP and gold I used to get AA cruisers back so I can free XP a 19pt Conqueror and an Asashio and grief the game all day, to punish the idiotic [edited] comments like yours who would remove a core part of the game.

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21 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

 

zep

 

Surface Detectability Range16.2 km.
Air Detectability Range13.83 km

 

 

shokaku

 

Surface Detectability Range12.42 km.
Air Detectability Range11.97 km.

 

enterprise

 

Surface Detectability Range14.58 km.

Air Detectability Range13.77 km.

 

lexington

 

Surface Detectability Range17.46 km

Air Detectability Range15.03 km.

 

So, 3rd place out of 4, much best! very bestest!!

 

Since all t8+ CVs have defensive fire, and fairly decent AAA, they ALL "stress" attacking airplanes.

 

Is this a thread where we get to pick one line each that's absurd to the extreme and pick apart?

 

Those values are the old values and they are incorrect.

 

New graf zeppelin detection range is below 14km, and <12km air, it has enough fighers to restock to full 2 times and to 5 fighers on the 3rd time while having the equivalent of 6 torpedo bombers squads.

 

The wargaming wiki and stuff have outdated info before the rework.

 

The current one is straight up OP, havent read any good argument against it, only zeppelin users trying to defend this op piece of crap. 

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Just now, Tr1umph said:

 

Those values are the old values and they are incorrect.

 

New graf zeppelin detection range is below 14km, and <12km air, it has enough fighers to restock to full 2 times and to 5 fighers on the 3rd time while having the equivalent of 6 torpedo bombers squads.

 

The wargaming wiki and stuff have outdated info before the rework.

 

The current one is straight up OP, havent read any good argument against it, only zeppelin users trying to defend this op piece of crap. 

 

You seem blissfully unaware of the difference between stock stats, and stats after captain skills and upgrades come into effect.

 

Almost like you're perfectly ignorant.. no, not just almost.

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48 minutes ago, Tr1umph said:

 

Those values are the old values and they are incorrect.

 

New graf zeppelin detection range is below 14km, and <12km air, it has enough fighers to restock to full 2 times and to 5 fighers on the 3rd time while having the equivalent of 6 torpedo bombers squads.

 

The wargaming wiki and stuff have outdated info before the rework.

 

The current one is straight up OP, havent read any good argument against it, only zeppelin users trying to defend this op piece of crap. 

 

Erm, still no.

 

GZ either has horribly low fighter reserve and TBs, or it has decent'ish fighter reserves WITHOUT any TBs.

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10 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

Erm, still no.

 

GZ either has horribly low fighter reserve and TBs, or it has decent'ish fighter reserves WITHOUT any TBs.

wiped out 2 of his fighters squad he still had a 3rd one with 6 fighters. 

 

So maybe check the stats, it was the only carrier in the game.

 

Funny tho that none said anything about the facts that i mentioned which is zeppelin has more fighters and bombers and they are all faster = giving them superior strafing and bombing. 

 

all I see is spoiled brats defending their pay2win ship without any arguments.

 

 

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People will always defend OP ships they like. Look at the conq situation...still broken af and some people refuse to admit it...

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Can someone who owns GZ shed some light about plane reserves / speed and # of planes in a squadron? I mean come on we are talking hard stats here, and there is one finall version of this ship so what the heck is this discussion even about?

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Vor 1 Stunde, Tr1umph sagte:

 

Those values are the old values and they are incorrect.

 

New graf zeppelin detection range is below 14km, and <12km air, it has enough fighers to restock to full 2 times and to 5 fighers on the 3rd time while having the equivalent of 6 torpedo bombers squads.

 

The wargaming wiki and stuff have outdated info before the rework.

 

The current one is straight up OP, havent read any good argument against it, only zeppelin users trying to defend this op piece of crap. 

Current Concealment values:

22623d410e.png

 

The number of torpedo bombers is 5 per squad, not 6.

 

You are the one without arguments, just a lot of [edited] that's far from true.

 

About the AA:

GZ:   ae4ab6999c.png

Lexi: 1e47dbad47.png

 

Vor 3 Minuten, Tr1umph sagte:

wiped out 2 of his fighters squad he still had a 3rd one with 6 fighters. 

You should decide if you are talking about the 2-0-3 or the 1-2-1. Can't mix them up.

 

Vor 5 Minuten, Tr1umph sagte:

Funny tho that none said anything about the facts that i mentioned which is zeppelin has more fighters and bombers and they are all faster = giving them superior strafing and bombing. 

Yet at the same time you are ignoring that GZ fighters also have less HP and less DPS than other fighters.

Next thing: GZ bombers are slower, not faster!

GZ bomber speed: 135kts

Shokaku bomber speed: 161kts

Lexington bomber speed: 140kts

Similar for torpedo bombers.

 

And about the "more fighters and bombers" part: How can it have more of both if all 3 CVs have exactly 72 planes?

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8 minutes ago, Tr1umph said:
22 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

Erm, still no.

 

GZ either has horribly low fighter reserve and TBs, or it has decent'ish fighter reserves WITHOUT any TBs.

wiped out 2 of his fighters squad he still had a 3rd one with 6 fighters. 

 

So maybe check the stats, it was the only carrier in the game.

 

Then he had the the 2/0/3 setup ... note the 0 for the number of TB squadrons.

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well god bless finally someone with a sense of decency showed up with actual factual knowledge. @Guy that created this post my god... at least differentiate your statements properly and if you´d play the ship im sure you ll find out very soon that the strikepower might be strong but is by no means OP.

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1 hour ago, P2Win said:

(...)

Since you visited the thread, I feel the need to make sure. Is Graf Zepppelin you? The thread title seems to indicate that much :Smile-_tongue:

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If GZ had atleast twice the hangar capacity then maybe, tho i like to troll around with 9,4km secondary build.

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My first encounter with GZ that I was in my farragut,

I thought it was a regular CV.. I dont have any specific experience with others but whoever thought giving bismarck secondaries to a CV must have had his ears ringed on that match :)

 

This was me when I first caught it alone! :Smile_teethhappy: then I was like this, :Smile_izmena: but when its secondaries started to open fire on me I was like.. :Smile_sad: and in the end.. I was sinking into the bottom and GZ was gloriously sailing away.. :Smile_amazed:

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11 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Since you visited the thread, I feel the need to make sure. Is Graf Zepppelin you? The thread title seems to indicate that much :Smile-_tongue:

Shuuuu don’t tell anyone..:cap_haloween:

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2 hours ago, Tr1umph said:

Playing any t8 carrier vs this thing is straight up freeloss. 

 

2 torpedo bombers like the japanese while having way more fighters so they can beat both JAP and US in 1on1 Air combat.

 

Stopped reading right there. Moving on. 

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Graf Zeppelin is a ludicrously worthless CV. She's only ahead of Lexington but that isn't a particularly hard benchmark to surpass.

Any half decent Shokaku or Enterprise should be capable of stomping a GZ to the ground.

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Get recked by GZ, come to forums, throw around false data and abuse the p2w phrase.

Same old, same old.

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Graf Zeppelin is a ludicrously worthless CV. She's only ahead of Lexington but that isn't a particularly hard benchmark to surpass.

Any half decent Shokaku or Enterprise should be capable of stomping a GZ to the ground.

 

This sums it up quite nicely.

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