Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
eliastion

Wargaming permits teamkilling

70 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
4,362 posts
11,276 battles

It's official, Wargaming doesn't mind you torping your allies as long as you don't do it at the point-blank range

Quote

Damage is measured as a percentage of the total HP pool of an allied ship. If damage is caused to multiple allies, the percentage values will sum up. Hitting allies with torpedoes will be taken into account, only if you launched your torpedoes at a distance of up to 5 kilometres.

Frankly, I'm at a loss of words. I'm mainly playing DDs and I'm aware that mistakes happen. Sometimes it's hard to predict your allies' behavior AND nobody is perfect - I have my share of allies who died (or were hurt badly) by my own blood soaked hands (or, well, pink-tipped torps?). But it's not like we're banning people for planting one torpedo spread into an ally! You just get pink and if you behave yourself, you stop being pink pretty much right away!

 

This just shouldn't be the case. The way you can clear your name by not doing this again is enough to cover honest mistakes already! Not to mention that there are actually ways to damage your allies that are much more excusable than a 6km torp (talking about, say, starting a fire that you have literally no control over once you nick that ally with a HE shell). And yet the thing we're going to treat as special is a damned 6km torp!? If someone is forced into treating allies behind his back as a threat, IT'S THESE ALLIES' FAULT, NOT HIS. Even if they are further than 5km away. Not to mention that there are plenty situation when an ally (hidden behind an island, temporarily AFK, sitting dead in the water with enginge broken) can now be purposefully and "legally" torped. Especially if your torps are fast and there's a lot of them. Imagine an F3 Shima that decides to go griefing. What are the chances of bow-tanking Yamato to avoid a salvo of 15 F3 torps nicely spread from her broadside at distance of 5,5km? Especially if she'd rather not expose broadside to all of the enemy team instead?

 

@Tuccy, @MrConway, @Sub_Octavian, can we get some explanation for this insanity? What's the reasoning behind this, especially since randomly started fires are still treated with full severity, to the point where you can become pink and then proceed to take reflected damage while the same fire that made you pink is still burning?

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[IDDQD]
Players
1,785 posts
16,172 battles

you are making this bigger issue than it is in reality. I have lots of battles and I can count on one hand how many times I was friendly torped, just ones it was clearly on purpose (shima just after battle starts and his torps reloaded started to torp alied BBs).  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ONE2]
Players
2,531 posts
15,020 battles

Oh weel O-well then, I guess I can stop pussyfooting and start second-line torping with my Mogami like never before... And Myoko and Ibuki and Aoba and Furutaka... Bwahahahaha! :cap_haloween:

shoot.jpg.401f07076769933fd568b0230c31cdd4.jpg

Oh yeah, I have a few DD's with long range torps too...:cap_cool:

 

Though admittedly @Quetak may have a point too. At 10km ranges it WILL be unintentional. But then again might stll cause people to get more careless with them things. Just thinking of a recent game, when a Myoko persistently kept 2nd line torping from behind me (he was not even in torp range from the enemy) and I spent more time trying to dodge his torps than actually fighting the enemy. :cap_hmm:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CQC]
Beta Tester
44 posts
4,089 battles

this means i can finally fire 20km shima torpedos in team direction, without continous checking if the side is free the next 2 min...

 

perfekt:cap_win:

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,160 posts
5 minutes ago, Tamago said:

this means i can finally fire 20km shima torpedos in team direction, without continous checking if the side is free the next 2 min...

 

perfekt:cap_win:

 

Yup a few days ago I saw Skybuck (yes the forum banned one) torp a friendly LoYang who was forward spotting and harassing the enemy effectively he did his best to blame the LoYang for failing to dodge. The whole team disagreed of course and his swearing stopped pretty rapidly, presumably as he got chat banned.

The LoYang was some 8-10km away from Skybuck's shima, would this mean that he wouldn't go pink with the new system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
2,911 posts
7,793 battles

I once accidentally torped a friendly who was coming from behind me  and I didnt see him (was in smoke in my Clemson - happened on Big race - A cap / south side,).

 

While I was apologizing (he lived by the way) I continued firing my guns, cause the enemy was rushing A cap.

I then launched my second spread and the same friendly made an "u-turn" (again infront of me) and ate another torp that killed him.

 

I wore my pink for more than few games at the time :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,667 posts

Yeah, that does sound kinda stupid. With the range some torps have I can already see players exploiting this to teamkill without punishment.

 

The system about leaving the battle early appears to be similarly bad. If I read the announcment correctly I can leave a battle back to harbor after the 15 minute mark without being punished for it. No matter if my team is currently winning or losing, I can just go, leave my intact ship, and do something else.

 

@MrConway, @Tuccy, @Sehales

Could we get some clarification and maybe some adjustment here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG-EU]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
2,588 posts
2,397 battles
40 minutes ago, eliastion said:

It's official, Wargaming doesn't mind you torping your allies as long as you don't do it at the point-blank range

Frankly, I'm at a loss of words. I'm mainly playing DDs and I'm aware that mistakes happen. Sometimes it's hard to predict your allies' behavior AND nobody is perfect - I have my share of allies who died (or were hurt badly) by my own blood soaked hands (or, well, pink-tipped torps?). But it's not like we're banning people for planting one torpedo spread into an ally! You just get pink and if you behave yourself, you stop being pink pretty much right away!

 

This just shouldn't be the case. The way you can clear your name by not doing this again is enough to cover honest mistakes already! Not to mention that there are actually ways to damage your allies that are much more excusable than a 6km torp (talking about, say, starting a fire that you have literally no control over once you nick that ally with a HE shell). And yet the thing we're going to treat as special is a damned 6km torp!? If someone is forced into treating allies behind his back as a threat, IT'S THESE ALLIES' FAULT, NOT HIS. Even if they are further than 5km away. Not to mention that there are plenty situation when an ally (hidden behind an island, temporarily AFK, sitting dead in the water with enginge broken) can now be purposefully and "legally" torped. Especially if your torps are fast and there's a lot of them. Imagine an F3 Shima that decides to go griefing. What are the chances of bow-tanking Yamato to avoid a salvo of 15 F3 torps nicely spread from her broadside at distance of 5,5km? Especially if she'd rather not expose broadside to all of the enemy team instead?

 

@Tuccy, @MrConway, @Sub_Octavian, can we get some explanation for this insanity? What's the reasoning behind this, especially since randomly started fires are still treated with full severity, to the point where you can become pink and then proceed to take reflected damage while the same fire that made you pink is still burning?

 

We find that intentional team killing is usually done at close ranges. With this limitation we want to prevent excessive punishment for people that fired a longer range salvo that an allied ship sails into.

 

This is however a limitation we can easily change if we find that it is being abused, and for cases outside of the 5km range where the intention was clearly to inflict team damage, you can of course send a report to our support team.

  • Cool 6
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG-EU]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
2,588 posts
2,397 battles
4 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Yeah, that does sound kinda stupid. With the range some torps have I can already see players exploiting this to teamkill without punishment.

 

The system about leaving the battle early appears to be similarly bad. If I read the announcment correctly I can leave a battle back to harbor after the 15 minute mark without being punished for it. No matter if my team is currently winning or losing, I can just go, leave my intact ship, and do something else.

 

@MrConway, @Tuccy, @Sehales

Could we get some clarification and maybe some adjustment here?

 

You could indeed leave after the 15 minute mark without being punished by this system. 

 

We will never be able to cover all possibilities with an automated system, so we need to set certain thresholds for these punishments. But if you compare it to the situation now, where this system does not exist, it will be a clear improvement ;)

  • Cool 5
  • Bad 2
  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,667 posts
3 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

You could indeed leave after the 15 minute mark without being punished by this system. 

 

We will never be able to cover all possibilities with an automated system, so we need to set certain thresholds for these punishments. But if you compare it to the situation now, where this system does not exist, it will be a clear improvement ;)

I do understand the treshold for disconnecting or closing the client. But leaving back to harbor is definatly an intentional act, so I have my doubts that this should be included as an allowable exception.

If someone is called to the doorbell or if the dog is suddenly showing signs of sickness, then leaving the PC completly sounds more likely then first returning to your port.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,160 posts
4 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

We find that intentional team killing is usually done at close ranges. With this limitation we want to prevent excessive punishment for people that fired a longer range salvo that an allied ship sails into.

 

This is however a limitation we can easily change if we find that it is being abused, and for cases outside of the 5km range where the intention was clearly to inflict team damage, you can of course send a report to our support team.

 

Please can you confirm?

If I fire a salvo of torps and hit someone at 6km and sink them I will no longer go pink? Considering how many ships have long range torpedoes (many of which I play) this seems a bit strange. At the moment people fire inconsiderate second line torpedo salvos and as a DD driver I frequently dodge them if I can, but sometimes it's impossible to get out of the way.

As has been discussed any number of times on the forum it is ALWAYS the torpedo firers fault and I've gone pink a few times from my own stupidity, frequently unintentional, but usually plain inconsiderate or poor sportsmanship like play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
808 posts
8,041 battles

Can we also make it if we shoot someone from more than 5km we don’t get pink? Seems balanced..

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
Players
4,833 posts
6,919 battles

To be honest you always see allied torps - on your screen and on your tactical map. At 5km you've had more than enough time to notice them (if a friendly ship / plane ahead of you spots enemy torps are you going to sail into them? Same case here) and evade them if they are coming towards you. Plus without the target marker intentional teamkilling at those ranges... you'd have to be pretty good to aim that one correctly.

 

6 minutes ago, MrConway said:

You could indeed leave after the 15 minute mark without being punished by this system. 

 

We will never be able to cover all possibilities with an automated system, so we need to set certain thresholds for these punishments. But if you compare it to the situation now, where this system does not exist, it will be a clear improvement ;)

Here's a little story of a player, lets call him... BBilly

 

Battle has started, BBilly's just herp-a-derp-ing along in his shiny top tier BB, doing full 1/4 speed (and thinking "damn this is fast, why can't I go slower?"), but he's not touching his keyboard because only newbz would do that! And BBilly is no newb, he's a gud player!

 

Skip a few minutes ahead, BBilly on the same old course on that same old speed, just enjoying the scenery. But what's that?! An alarm? What is the crew yelling about torpedoes?! What hacks would those be?!

Multiple salvos of the most OP-Unfair-Unbalanced-WhatWereYouThinkg weapon in the game have showed up next to BBillys ship, and those torpedoes are going to land multiple hits!

Boom - boom - boom - explosions sound through the ship as torpedoes slam into it.

Should I repair? Should I use my heals, all of whom are still available? - thinks BBilly - My beautiful ship is scratched! It's worthless now!

 

But BBilly's a smart kid, he knows that you need to be active only 75% of the time you are alive. So he quits to port, his ship flooding out before it's too late.

And then BBilly lived happily ever after as he never got punished

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,667 posts
16 minutes ago, MrConway said:

and for cases outside of the 5km range where the intention was clearly to inflict team damage, you can of course send a report to our support team.

And how long will it take to get rid of such a player? How many battles will he be allowed to disturb before

  1. a player has a replay
  2. the player with the replay actually filling a report
  3. the report being read by the support team
  4. the support team replying with the usual "use ingame report function" first, or not acting it at all upon because they don't see the severity in this single case
  5. the reporting player having to remind the support team about the WoWs rules
  6. and finally the misbehaving player being punished

I can see several days between the first incident and the player getting actual punishment. That's plenty of battles to wreak havoc.

 

Yes, most intentional teamkills might be performed at below 5 km (at the moment), but even an accidental teamkill is still a teamkill. And some players are already very resistent about taking responsibility for their weapons fire. Those players are now encouraged in not caring for their teammates as they get punished less.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JPF]
Players
98 posts
1,274 battles
1 hour ago, eliastion said:

It's official, Wargaming doesn't mind you torping your allies as long as you don't do it at the point-blank range

Frankly, I'm at a loss of words. I'm mainly playing DDs and I'm aware that mistakes happen. Sometimes it's hard to predict your allies' behavior AND nobody is perfect - I have my share of allies who died (or were hurt badly) by my own blood soaked hands (or, well, pink-tipped torps?)...

1386363199749.gif

 

If you get blood soaked hands in combination with your pink-tipped torp, then you need to see a variety of doctors immediately.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HARF]
Players
331 posts
11,529 battles

So now there is no need to be careful while 2nd line torping at all. The DD in front of you is now responsible for his own safety.  OMG WG. Is there no end to these woeful decisions? Wouldn't say it is the worst decision you ever made as you have made some humdingers but it is certainly a braindead decision.

Think I might start to camp with the BBs in the backline until you sober up. Awful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Community Contributor, Beta Tester
404 posts
17,958 battles

The fact that people who launches torps behind allies (Looking at you IJN cruiser players :cap_tea:) and hit friendly ships can get away with it as long as its outside a certain range is not a good thing imo.
This something that happens a lot and the should also be penalized as the ones that does it at less than 5km. No matter what range, throwing torps behind allied ships should be punished equally.
When you have to dodge allied torps you often get rekt by the enemy team, either because they have torps on their way, or there are a battleship with a full AP salvo waiting for your cruiser to show some side.
I'm hoping this is something can change in the future. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
588 posts
4,771 battles

These thresholds for punishable behavior are way, way too lenient. No punishment for leaving after 15 minutes seems ridiculous because if there truly is an IRL emergency, you wont even bother to leave the game, you'll just get up and answer the door. If someone has time to go back to Port at any time in a game, they're just being an [edited], this is just a free pass.

 

Even worse is this torp rule. Intentional or not, from 5km or 15km, a bad torp launch that kills a teammate makes you a teamkiller. I've done it by accident before along with everyone else, but I own that mistake. This 5km rule does nothing but give the ones who don't learn from their mistake an excuse to more easily blame whoever they hit and do it over and over.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SICK]
Weekend Tester
4,717 posts
9,234 battles

Oh boy, some AFK players and 20 minute back campers are in for a surpr accidents !

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DC-DK]
Players
2,413 posts
24,467 battles
2 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

We find that intentional team killing is usually done at close ranges. With this limitation we want to prevent excessive punishment for people that fired a longer range salvo that an allied ship sails into.

 

This is however a limitation we can easily change if we find that it is being abused, and for cases outside of the 5km range where the intention was clearly to inflict team damage, you can of course send a report to our support team.

This is an outright disaster.. Now people never have to learn not shooting torps from second line.. Sorry but I see no sense in this at all

 

Either you go for penalty of all friendly fire no matter the range or the system is worthless. IMHO

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[1911]
Players
54 posts
8,602 battles

WG, I know noone in your company actually plays this game, so listen a little bit to the players that do.

 

Already before this change we have people trying to teamkill not from pointblank range, but from far away, so that they can write insults in chat afterwards and play innocent ('Lol report our DD he didn't dodge my torp what a noob, I gave him all the time to dodge'). I have seen it all. There are some insanely toxic people playing this game, not a lot, but they exist. Can you imagine the abuse a system like this would see. Shimas/Assashios with 20 km torps heading to the map corner to throw torps into friendlies. I am calling it here and now (Oh wait, they don't even have to head to the map corner, since 5 km is a TINY distance, especially at T10).

 

There is no real defence against torps from behind you, since you don't exepct them and your camera is usually pointed to the other direction. The responsibility is ALWAYS in the hands of the one torping, no matter how far away he is.

 

If you want to change something about your teamdamage system, remove the chance to cause fires and flooding on friendlies. The one who gets hit isn't happy about this, since he has to burn his damage control, and the one who made the mistake isn't happy, since he has to pay for a lot more damage than he actually caused (Causing a flooding on a friendly without damage con is a guranteed explosion of your ship due to continued teamdamage and a shitton of stupid damge for the friendly).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,667 posts

The worst about this announcement is that it is essentially telling everyone who wants to be a troll how to avoid punishment.

  • Cool 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DC-DK]
Players
2,413 posts
24,467 battles
4 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

The worst about this announcement is that it is essentially telling everyone who wants to be a troll how to avoid punishment.

totally agrees

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,484 posts
14,604 battles
2 hours ago, eliastion said:

'...Hitting allies with torpedoes will be taken into account, only if you launched your torpedoes at a distance of up to 5 kilometres..."

That is not good.

 

If you launch torpedoes you should be responsible... regardless of distance.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DC-DK]
Players
2,413 posts
24,467 battles

Again WG catering for players without skill..... Guess it all will be a giant torpedo soup from now on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×