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Grozovoi vs. Khabarovsk?

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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on which of the USSR DD lines is worth researching, especially considering the top tiers. Currently I'm at T8 in both lines, loving the Kiev but I didn't enjoy the T8 version of Ognevoi. Should i try again in the line leading to Grozovoi, or as I enjoy the line leading to the Kebab is it better that I just keep going?

The Kebab has that reputation going for it, but I never hear that much about the Grozovoi. Is there a reason for this?

Thanks for any advice or tips! :Smile_honoring:

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If you enjoy the Kiev then you will LOVE the Khaba....think Kiev on steroids. Grozovoi is a strange hybrid beast that requires a totally different playstyle more like a US DD. Both are good ships in thier own ways.

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On 4/15/2018 at 11:42 AM, Centurion_1711 said:

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on which of the USSR DD lines is worth researching, especially considering the top tiers. Currently I'm at T8 in both lines, loving the Kiev but I didn't enjoy the T8 version of Ognevoi. Should i try again in the line leading to Grozovoi, or as I enjoy the line leading to the Kebab is it better that I just keep going?

The Kebab has that reputation going for it, but I never hear that much about the Grozovoi. Is there a reason for this?

Thanks for any advice or tips! :Smile_honoring:

totally different DDs...one is pure gunboat with 9.7km DR...more CL than DD

if u enjoy playing under constant rain of shells Khaba

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Regarding Grozovoi, I absolutely love my Udaloi and have Grozovoi unlocked but have been reluctant of buying it, due to reduced gun range and agility.

 

Would you recommend Grozovoi to agressive pusher and gunboater? Considering that's it's best gimmick is AA and I'm planning on getting Z-52 (as soon as german DD's get discount)

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On 2018-04-15 at 10:42 AM, Centurion_1711 said:

Currently I'm at T8 in both lines, loving the Kiev but I didn't enjoy the T8 version of Ognevoi.

The Ognevoi is kind of odd in that it's one of only two torpedo boats in the RU DD lines; the other being the Derpzki. Her guns are kinda too weak for a proper hybrid. The two ships above her have far better gun power. So I don't think you should use the Ognevoi to guess how that line will work on higher tiers.

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On 2018-04-18 at 9:19 AM, aleksi111 said:

Regarding Grozovoi, I absolutely love my Udaloi and have Grozovoi unlocked but have been reluctant of buying it, due to reduced gun range and agility.

 

Would you recommend Grozovoi to agressive pusher and gunboater? Considering that's it's best gimmick is AA and I'm planning on getting Z-52 (as soon as german DD's get discount)

A tip. I just got my Grozovoi and Im kinda missing the Udaloi for the same resons that you give. Still the detection and torps let you do things you cant in the uda. I got it but kept the Udaloi :cap_like:

The z52 was my first t10 and Ive been struggeling with it. It has the same Issues that the Grozovoi has. Its size makes it hard to manuver in caps and sluggish as a torp boat. The guns are however good so I went gunbuild. And now its fun to play. Reload mod gives you 3.5 sec reload and aft on the commander gives you 14.5km range. German smoke sucks but at t10 its not that bad. I push caps, bully dds with hydro and when everyone has left i make the bbs camping in the back burn from my smoke. German dd he is not much to brag about. But 10% fire chance with demo expert and 3.5 sec reload (before ar kicks in) is no joke. And the ap is great if you get to close. So my tip is go gunbuild on your z. Its great if you like the Udaloi.

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Personally I got the Grozovoi as a lulbote, completely set up for AA. If someone wants to div up in a CV, that's the boat I bring along :Smile_trollface:

 

Other than that though, the Grozovoi is an excellent support DD. Not that great at brawling due to its size and propensity of catching regular AP pens, but as a DD that's following a close behind another DD better suited for contesting caps, it's amazing. The guns are, well, russian 130mm Stalinium railguns. You're going to have no trouble supporting an allied DD from second line. And once the enemy lines have been thinned a bit, with its decent concealment you can play it more aggressively and use its good concealment (so much better than the Udaloi's) to do more classic DD work.

 

The torpedoes are also not too shabby (though unless you go for torpedo-reload upgrades and/or skills they have an abysmal reload).

 

 

There most definately is a reason why you don't hear much about the Grozovoi, because it doesn't really excels at anything other than AA (and that is a rather insular talent ...) and having amazing ballistics.

 

For cap contesting, the Z-52 is still the king.

For a hybrid-brawler and teamplay, the Gearing takes the cake.

Gunboating, that's the Khabarovsk.

All-purpose torpedoboating, Shimakaze.

Cruiser/Battleship torpedo-hybrid-brawler, Yue Yang.

 

 

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On 15/4/2018 at 11:42 AM, bouncer8409 said:

If you enjoy the Kiev then you will LOVE the Khaba....think Kiev on steroids.

[....]

This pretty much answers your question.

 

 

Kiev, Khabarovsk are awesome. Trashkent earned a bad name.

Udaloi is an absolute beast and completely worth suffering the Ognevoi. It is the only true hydrid DD in the Russian tree having both amazing guns and ability to stealth torp (with CE build) and it does both like a pro. Basically it is Tier 9,5 just like the Fletcher.

 

Grozevoi i unlocked long ago and it has rusted away since. It is the worst tier X dd i ever played.

Think of a boat suited for USN dd playstyle without the maneuverabilty to actually perform that role. It has a Yamato-like turning circle and takes forever to accelerate and slow (DesMo level mobility) and even with propulsion mod 2 it only gets about as good as RN cruisers (meaning it never stop in time to dodge those torp volleys that cause no problems for other dds). 

And it fails as a gunboat too compared to Khaba since it has no heal. And as a hybrid, well, there is Z52. The  ONLY thing it does well is AA and that not even too well. 

It is a second line DD good for supporting other dds, that eats torpedoes and BB AP pens like no other DD. Really, it should be the tier 9 and Udaloi should be the tier 10.

 

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I have and have played all of them ... I have bought perma-camo for the Udaloi only :-)

 

Anyway if you did not enjoy the Ognevoi, you will not like the Grozo ... They have virtually the same playstyle with Grozo having more gunpower but taking more damage. Torpedoes are identical.

If the Kiev suits you more, you'll love the Khabarovsk ...

 

On 4/20/2018 at 12:57 AM, GulvkluderGuld said:

This pretty much answers your question.

 

 

Kiev, Khabarovsk are awesome. Trashkent earned a bad name.

Udaloi is an absolute beast and completely worth suffering the Ognevoi. It is the only true hydrid DD in the Russian tree having both amazing guns and ability to stealth torp (with CE build) and it does both like a pro. Basically it is Tier 9,5 just like the Fletcher.

 

Grozevoi i unlocked long ago and it has rusted away since. It is the worst tier X dd i ever played.

Think of a boat suited for USN dd playstyle without the maneuverabilty to actually perform that role. It has a Yamato-like turning circle and takes forever to accelerate and slow (DesMo level mobility) and even with propulsion mod 2 it only gets about as good as RN cruisers (meaning it never stop in time to dodge those torp volleys that cause no problems for other dds). 

And it fails as a gunboat too compared to Khaba since it has no heal. And as a hybrid, well, there is Z52. The  ONLY thing it does well is AA and that not even too well. 

It is a second line DD good for supporting other dds, that eats torpedoes and BB AP pens like no other DD. Really, it should be the tier 9 and Udaloi should be the tier 10.

 

 

OMG, if they would swap tier for Grozo and Udaloi and give Udaloi the 10KM torps I'll buy 1 year of premium right away ...

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Looks like I'll keep heading towards Khabarovsk then, as I'm enjoying the Kiev enough. It's always fun to be racing around at 45knts, with Priority target saying 5-6 people are targeting you, but they can't even hit you at all. As much as I kinda enjoy gimmicky AA ships (give me a RN AA cruiser line and I'll grind that in a heartbeat :Smile_great:), I guess I'll leave the other line for now.

On a related note, how good/bad is the Tashkent? Should I be worried about its nickname 'Trashkent', or is it better now?

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The Trashkent is quite good, but keep in mind that you need to play it as a CL. It is large, it posseses a juicy broadside and the modules tend to break fast.

But is a good vessel to train future captains for the Khaba. 

 

Don't expect to carry your team though. The same with the Khaba.

 

Keep those guns firing! :cap_rambo:

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3 minutes ago, LeSnoet said:

The Trashkent is quite good, but keep in mind that you need to play it as a CL. It is large, it posseses a juicy broadside and the modules tend to break fast.

But is a good vessel to train future captains for the Khaba. 

 

Don't expect to carry your team though. The same with the Khaba.

 

Keep those guns firing! :cap_rambo:

Thanks for the advice. So the name Trashkent came from before? I'm fine with playing like a CL, it's just a bit annoying when I get told to contest caps against IJN or US DD's in my Kiev. Surely T9 and 10 players should know that USSR DD's are better at kiting etc. Still, those are probably the same folks that fire HE in a Yamato, sadly they do exist...

It's a shame that the Tashkent doesn't get the 130mm/55 upgraded guns like in the other line, the boost in velocity and penetration over Kiev would have been nice. Still, the 130mm/50 guns are probably the best DD guns overall, so it's hard to complain there.

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39 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Thanks for the advice. So the name Trashkent came from before? I'm fine with playing like a CL, it's just a bit annoying when I get told to contest caps against IJN or US DD's in my Kiev. Surely T9 and 10 players should know that USSR DD's are better at kiting etc. Still, those are probably the same folks that fire HE in a Yamato, sadly they do exist...

It's a shame that the Tashkent doesn't get the 130mm/55 upgraded guns like in the other line, the boost in velocity and penetration over Kiev would have been nice. Still, the 130mm/50 guns are probably the best DD guns overall, so it's hard to complain there.

And those USSR DD's are going to rock with the Engine Boost Modification 1 (slot 2) if you happen to acquired one through a supercontainer. 

 

One word of advice; watch out for Neptune's and Mino's, they will eat you alive with their DPS and AP. 

The Khaba is very resistant to HE shells (not most players are aware of that; 'DD insight, load HE men!') due to its special spaced armour/plating. But rapid firing AP guns will melt your aggro-vessel fast.

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Khaba take loads of damage from any AP shell due to its armor that prevents overpen.

As for HE, watch out especially for Hindenburg and Henri IV. Hindenburg HE penetrates the 50mm plating, and Henri IV does too if he have the IFHE skill. Hindenburg can melt a Khaba very quickly.

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10 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Khaba take loads of damage from any AP shell due to its armor that prevents overpen.

As for HE, watch out especially for Hindenburg and Henri IV. Hindenburg HE penetrates the 50mm plating, and Henri IV does too if he have the IFHE skill. Hindenburg can melt a Khaba very quickly.

Good point, I never knew that about the Hindenburg.

However, I think it is quite rare too find IFHE equipped captains at tier X. Certainly because other captain-skills are considered more important. But proof me wrong, if otherwise ;)

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20.04.2018 saat 00:45'de, Aotearas dedi:

Personally I got the Grozovoi as a lulbote, completely set up for AA. If someone wants to div up in a CV, that's the boat I bring along :Smile_trollface:

 

Other than that though, the Grozovoi is an excellent support DD. Not that great at brawling due to its size and propensity of catching regular AP pens, but as a DD that's following a close behind another DD better suited for contesting caps, it's amazing. The guns are, well, russian 130mm Stalinium railguns. You're going to have no trouble supporting an allied DD from second line. And once the enemy lines have been thinned a bit, with its decent concealment you can play it more aggressively and use its good concealment (so much better than the Udaloi's) to do more classic DD work.

 

The torpedoes are also not too shabby (though unless you go for torpedo-reload upgrades and/or skills they have an abysmal reload).

 

 

There most definately is a reason why you don't hear much about the Grozovoi, because it doesn't really excels at anything other than AA (and that is a rather insular talent ...) and having amazing ballistics.

 

For cap contesting, the Z-52 is still the king.

For a hybrid-brawler and teamplay, the Gearing takes the cake.

Gunboating, that's the Khabarovsk.

All-purpose torpedoboating, Shimakaze.

Cruiser/Battleship torpedo-hybrid-brawler, Yue Yang.

 

 


:cap_haloween:

 

Spoiler

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Well, Khabarovsk is feels like a troll ship. She can be soo annoying but sometimes so useless. Thanks to 50mm plating, all cruiser ap's are pain. Grozovoi is have kinda same gun power with khaba but with  one less turret. But there is huge concelmant difference. And better torpedoes. I would like to grind Grozovoi first.

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One thing to add to the above that hasn't been mentioned, it's hard to make good use of Khabarovsk for a few reasons:

 

1. The range is crap

2. It attracts massive heat because omg khaba

3. Torps are useless for anything but an ambush

 

Compare that to Udaloi:

 

1. The range is a lot better, almost as good as Tashkent

2. No one wants to focus you because Udaloi

3. Torps are fast and can be launched from stealth

4. You are one tier lower

 

Now ask yourself, is it worth it to trade all that for heal and one extra turret?

 

The above basically means that both lines have a meh tier 10 (Khaba after the nerfs and Grozovoi was never anything to look forward to) and it's best to stick to the tier 9's. So we have Fetcher situation, where the tier 9 is your end station, although I personally favor the Gearing over the Grozovoi and the Khabarovsk.

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Tashkent (or Trashcan) was quite a horrible experience back when it sat at tier 8: Big, clunky and very very low stealtfire-range (700 m -ish). Nowadays stealthfire is removed and it got bumped to tier 9 with a heal in the pocket, it seems pretty decent.

 

12 hours ago, LeSnoet said:

And those USSR DD's are going to rock with the Engine Boost Modification 1 (slot 2) if you happen to acquired one through a supercontainer. 

 

One word of advice; watch out for Neptune's and Mino's, they will eat you alive with their DPS and AP. 

The Khaba is very resistant to HE shells (not most players are aware of that; 'DD insight, load HE men!') due to its special spaced armour/plating. But rapid firing AP guns will melt your aggro-vessel fast.

Minotaurs can be citadelled from 6,5 km (their detection range when firing in smoke).

I've recently learned to take advantage of that and sunk a few very surprised Minotaur/Neptune captains.

If you sail bow in, Mino do very little damage. Meanwhile, Khaba dishes out 4 citadels every 4,5s.

 

I find Zaos and Hindenburgs to be the main party-poopers.

 

10 hours ago, walter3kurtz said:

One thing to add to the above that hasn't been mentioned, it's hard to make good use of Khabarovsk for a few reasons:

 

1. The range is crap 

2. It attracts massive heat because omg khaba

3. Torps are useless for anything but an ambush

 

[....]

 

The above basically means that both lines have a meh tier 10 (Khaba after the nerfs and Grozovoi was never anything to look forward to) and it's best to stick to the tier 9's. So we have Fetcher situation, where the tier 9 is your end station, although I personally favor the Gearing over the Grozovoi and the Khabarovsk.

Interesting perspective. 

As recently as today my Khaba was called OP as F (after I solo 1v1 two other full hp tier X dds. First YY then Z52 - the two best tier X CW dds)

In my opinion what you call Khaba nerfs were  a minor buff. 

First all USSR guns and shells were buffed. Then Khaba rudder shift and torps nerfed.

Effectively the rudder shift nerf can be disregarded by running the 2 mil rudder shift module (khaba dont need stealth).

So that leaves the question: Worth it to trade 4 km torp range for a 10% increase in rof and 2% extra fire chance?

Hell yes!

 

1. Range is enough if you learned to stay ~1 km inside it at max from playing tier 3-9.

2. It is part of the charm and special vibe of the ship to sail untouched across an exploding sea (and keep your allies safe by facetanking the entire flank of the enemy team without taking much dmg)

3. Who cares about torps? 

 

Udaloi is an amazing boat, but it doesn't hold a candle to Khabas playstyle  (it lacks the speed and heal).

 

ps: Gearing is my favorite DD too :)

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17 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

It's a shame that the Tashkent doesn't get the 130mm/55 upgraded guns like in the other line, the boost in velocity and penetration over Kiev would have been nice. Still, the 130mm/50 guns are probably the best DD guns overall, so it's hard to complain there.

I think it's the boost in turret traverse that's the most important for the upgraded guns. It helps a lot when you're dodging and weaving.

 

16 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Khaba take loads of damage from any AP shell due to its armor that prevents overpen.

As for HE, watch out especially for Hindenburg and Henri IV. Hindenburg HE penetrates the 50mm plating, and Henri IV does too if he have the IFHE skill. Hindenburg can melt a Khaba very quickly.

I think all HE over 200mm with IFHE or German HE of the same size penetrates the 50mm plates.

 

14 hours ago, walter3kurtz said:

2. It attracts massive heat because omg khaba

Attracting heat is one of the main jobs of the Kebab. You get the entire enemy team to shoot in your general direction so your teammates don't get their paint scratched.

 

4 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I've recently learned to take advantage of that and sunk a few very surprised Minotaur/Neptune captains.

If you sail bow in, Mino do very little damage. Meanwhile, Khaba dishes out 4 citadels every 4,5s.

 

I find Zaos and Hindenburgs to be the main party-poopers.

Yeah. Broadsided cruisers can take a lot of AP damage from the Kebab.

 

I'd add Russian cruisers to that list. Not because of radar, because Kebab doesn't care about radar, but because their shell arcs make it easier for them to hit you. Though personally I've had some strange trouble with German sniper BBs that take over a third of my health in a salvo at over 15km.

 

 

Also, Kebab is totes a bad capper.

t7zltx.jpg

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3 hours ago, Runegrem said:

I think all HE over 200mm with IFHE or German HE of the same size penetrates the 50mm plates.

Nah they can't. Standard 203mm with IFHE only penetrate up to 43mm while german 203 with the 1/4 rules penetrates more than 50.

240mm of Henri need IFHE to penetrates 50 too, and they barely go over the threshold.

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1 hour ago, ShinGetsu said:

Nah they can't. Standard 203mm with IFHE only penetrate up to 43mm while german 203 with the 1/4 rules penetrates more than 50.

240mm of Henri need IFHE to penetrates 50 too, and they barely go over the threshold.

Ah, yeah. That's right. I hadn't done the actual math on that. You need something like 233mm HE with IFHE if I calculated correctly.

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9 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

As recently as today my Khaba was called OP as F (after I solo 1v1 two other full hp tier X dds. First YY then Z52 - the two best tier X CW dds)

In my opinion what you call Khaba nerfs were  a minor buff. 

First all USSR guns and shells were buffed. Then Khaba rudder shift and torps nerfed.

Effectively the rudder shift nerf can be disregarded by running the 2 mil rudder shift module (khaba dont need stealth).

So that leaves the question: Worth it to trade 4 km torp range for a 10% increase in rof and 2% extra fire chance?

Hell yes!

 

1. Range is enough if you learned to stay ~1 km inside it at max from playing tier 3-9.

2. It is part of the charm and special vibe of the ship to sail untouched across an exploding sea (and keep your allies safe by facetanking the entire flank of the enemy team without taking much dmg)

3. Who cares about torps? 

 

Udaloi is an amazing boat, but it doesn't hold a candle to Khabas playstyle  (it lacks the speed and heal).

 

ps: Gearing is my favorite DD too :)

 

I know I'm venturing on dangerous terrain when I say that Khaba is meh. But I will explain what I mean and this ties in with what you wrote above. You soloing two tier X DD's means they messed up, Z52 especially. Bad position, bad use of hydro and torps. The reason for the rudder shift nerf was to avoid stuff like this. With stealth module and good rudder shift the Khaba could 1v1 any other DD by pouncing on them when it was already too late. In this case they should've seen you coming for 10 minutes probably, especially when you were coming in guns blazing on other targets. I did die to a Khaba once or twice in a DD when I got into a corner I couldn't escape from, but then I can say it was 100% my fault.

 

Was Khaba better before the range and rudder shift nerf? I think everyone agrees on that and the stats prove it too. It used to be OP and deserved a nerf. But that just means that you should not be looking forward to Khaba as it's just another boat and preference (for me: range over DPM) should be of more consideration.

 

5 hours ago, Runegrem said:

Attracting heat is one of the main jobs of the Kebab. You get the entire enemy team to shoot in your general direction so your teammates don't get their paint scratched.

 

Yeah sure, but with ~13km range you are just depleting your HP a lot faster in an environment where you take fire from multiple sources. And this is annoying because Khaba should take fire from multiple angles.

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7 hours ago, walter3kurtz said:

 

I know I'm venturing on dangerous terrain when I say that Khaba is meh. But I will explain what I mean and this ties in with what you wrote above. You soloing two tier X DD's means they messed up, Z52 especially. Bad position, bad use of hydro and torps. The reason for the rudder shift nerf was to avoid stuff like this. With stealth module and good rudder shift the Khaba could 1v1 any other DD by pouncing on them when it was already too late. In this case they should've seen you coming for 10 minutes probably, especially when you were coming in guns blazing on other targets. I did die to a Khaba once or twice in a DD when I got into a corner I couldn't escape from, but then I can say it was 100% my fault.

 

Khaba is meh if one looks to carry games and cap, I agree the "regular" dds are better for that sort of job.

But teams with Khaba dont feel the impact if they  have spotter dds themselves - the only problems accrue when they dont.

Then it is 3 caps to enemy team, camping backup and khaba can only farm damage on flanks.

 

About mistakes - I would point out NO tier X dd can engage khaba solo with any hopes of winning (unless random torps). Even Z52. 

The fight vs Z52 I actually waited out his smoke/hydro before blowing him out of the water (his only backup was the YY i killed 3 mins earlier)

YY was spotting me run for 5 mins, that one i ambushed by doing a 180 degree turn and hitting speed boost (he sailed too close). Once spotted he never stood a chance (can ofc rush his smoke without fear of torps)

They made the mistake of engaging me seperately without any other backup. That is all. :)

 

Quote

Was Khaba better before the range and rudder shift nerf? I think everyone agrees on that and the stats prove it too. It used to be OP and deserved a nerf. But that just means that you should not be looking forward to Khaba as it's just another boat and preference (for me: range over DPM) should be of more consideration.

 

 

Yeah sure, but with ~13km range you are just depleting your HP a lot faster in an environment where you take fire from multiple sources. And this is annoying because Khaba should take fire from multiple angles.

Forgot the range nerf - I think that goes way further back than the rest, but whatever, it happened and you are correct the khaba was better before that :)

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