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AdmiralDing3Ling

Ramming does too much damage

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Im sure this is going to be controversial for some people but I would love to have a ramming rework. If two ships touch eachother at 5 knots each they should not blow up from full hp. Firstly it makes no sense from an historical standpoint, secondly it makes some gameplay situations extremely frustrating.

Pounder this, you go around an island, look and behold and enemy battleship 5 km away who is on low hp and youre on almost full hp. His best option will be to ram you, because that will kill your full hp BB. What do you do? You cant do anything can you, if you try to turn away youll expose your full broadside and hell citadel you to death which will likely also kill you. You can try and reverse but he will catch up to you. Youre basicly dead with no chance of espcaping.

I would like the ramming damage SEVERLY reduced, and atleast have the amount of damage done be related to speed (it might already be but it doesnt matter when its a oneshot at 5 knots). I think this would incourage brawling and close quarter combat more and make these really annoying situations go away.

Another thing that could be implemented into this is to make friendly ramming do equal amount of damage or atleast do some amount of damage. 

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Seems like a good play by the other captain, which should be rewarded appropriately. High damage ramming is fine imo, guaranteed flooding too.

 

edited.

 

A highly damaged bb who manages to surprise another bb enough to be able to sink him by ramming... it's a benefit to the game to be able to pull off something like this.

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Just now, loppantorkel said:

...or, each time your bb captain has his ship sunk by getting rammed by another bb who manage to pop up within 5km, to his surprise, he is relegated and loses 2 skill points?

 

Seems like a good play by the other captain, which should be rewarded appropriately. High damage ramming is fine imo, guaranteed flooding too.

Im not blaming the other captain, I would do the same, I have done the same in similar situations. But I think there should not be that option, I would rather have ramming similar to world of tanks where it would do damage, a lot of damage if a bigger ships rams a smaller ship. But it makes no sense that two ships boops eachother at 0,1 knots and both blow up from full hp

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5 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Im not blaming the other captain, I would do the same, I have done the same in similar situations. But I think there should not be that option, I would rather have ramming similar to world of tanks where it would do damage, a lot of damage if a bigger ships rams a smaller ship. But it makes no sense that two ships boops eachother at 0,1 knots and both blow up from full hp

I agree that intuitively it makes no sense, but from a gameplay perspective, it does. Last resort that does high damage. I wouldn't mind if speed came into play - higher damage the greater the speed difference is, but, always high damage when enemy ships collide.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Im not blaming the other captain, I would do the same, I have done the same in similar situations. But I think there should not be that option, I would rather have ramming similar to world of tanks where it would do damage, a lot of damage if a bigger ships rams a smaller ship. But it makes no sense that two ships boops eachother at 0,1 knots and both blow up from full hp

Well, ramming does more damage to the smaller ship since you do ramming damage based on your max HP. And at slow speed you do less ramming damage, but it's still fairly significant continous damage, so unless you break contact quickly one ship will sink. I'm not sure what speeds do what kinds of damage, but I've seen a reversing BB take and do less damage when rammed by an advancing one.

 

Also, ramming damage is fine.

 

Edit: Accidentally a word.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Im not blaming the other captain, I would do the same, I have done the same in similar situations. But I think there should not be that option, I would rather have ramming similar to world of tanks where it would do damage, a lot of damage if a bigger ships rams a smaller ship. But it makes no sense that two ships boops eachother at 0,1 knots and both blow up from full hp

Have you considered using the Hotel Yankee flag? Its gives you -20% Damage taken when ramming the enemy and gives an additional 50% damage to them?

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8 minutes ago, Runegrem said:

Well, ramming does more damage to the smaller ship since you do ramming damage based on your max HP. And at slow speed you do less ramming damage, but it's still fairly significant continous damage, so unless you break damage quickly one ship will sink. I'm not sure what speeds do what kinds of damage, but I've seen a reversing BB take and do less damage when rammed by an advancing one.

really?! Didn't know that.

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2 hours ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Im sure this is going to be controversial for some people but I would love to have a ramming rework. If two ships touch eachother at 5 knots each they should not blow up from full hp. Firstly it makes no sense from an historical standpoint, secondly it makes some gameplay situations extremely frustrating.

How does it not make sense from a historical standpoint? Go to Youtube and look for ship collision videos. Those are in no way comparable to, let's say cars, bumping. The ships might not blow up but keep in mind that this is just an animation to show that the ships is destroyed/incapacitated.

 

2 hours ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Pounder this, you go around an island, look and behold and enemy battleship 5 km away who is on low hp and youre on almost full hp. His best option will be to ram you, because that will kill your full hp BB. What do you do? You cant do anything can you, if you try to turn away youll expose your full broadside and hell citadel you to death which will likely also kill you. You can try and reverse but he will catch up to you. Youre basicly dead with no chance of espcaping.

So, someone ambushed you and you have the chance to get out of it with more or less serious damage or getting killed. Sounds fine. Even at that range, citadelling a BB with a BB can be unreliable depending on the BBs involved so I'd rather take make chances to get out while taking some damage instead of dying.

And no, reversing is not meaningless because if you manage to get at least some speed in a direction opposite to the one ramming you won't die if the difference in health is high enough. You can even survive if you have half health while the enemy is very low.

 

2 hours ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

I would like the ramming damage SEVERLY reduced, and atleast have the amount of damage done be related to speed (it might already be but it doesnt matter when its a oneshot at 5 knots). I think this would incourage brawling and close quarter combat more and make these really annoying situations go away.

Another thing that could be implemented into this is to make friendly ramming do equal amount of damage or atleast do some amount of damage. 

The damage done already is (loosely) tied to relative speed although I agree that it usually doesn't matter and the max HP of the ships play a bigger influence. I'd say, as it is now it makes CQC more interesting and ... demanding? Because you have to take into account the enemy position and movement so he/she won't ram you as a last resort.

Friendly ramming ... not really a fan of. Especially if you look at how the team damage system works in regard to that, i.e. (AFAIK) both players get credited for friendly ramming damage which will make it open to abuse.

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2 hours ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Another thing that could be implemented into this is to make friendly ramming do equal amount of damage or atleast do some amount of damage. 

AFAIK it originally did deal similar damage. It was changed for a reason. Reason that, I'm sure, you can understand having played over a thousand and a half battles. Imgine if ships were killed/crippled every time they bump into each other in spawn...

I'm ok with friendly ramming damage being as tiny as ti is now for anti-frustration reasons - and I'm pretty sure I speak for most players here.

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I guess its fine then, noone wants it to change so lets have the game exactly as it is, always.

If you get close to someone youre dead no matter what, got it. But still complain people long range snipe, but I guess thats how humanity works.

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15 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

I guess its fine then, noone wants it to change so lets have the game exactly as it is, always.

If you get close to someone youre dead no matter what, got it. But still complain people long range snipe, but I guess thats how humanity works.

 

Well there's a difference between going up to someone at 2km and getting closer to 10-12 km 

 

The only ships that will actively attempt rams at that distance are herp derp Richelieus who are incapable of doing anything other than long range reverse he spam bow camping, and ramming when in danger. 

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34 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

I guess its fine then, noone wants it to change so lets have the game exactly as it is, always.

If you get close to someone youre dead no matter what, got it. But still complain people long range snipe, but I guess thats how humanity works.

Oh, sure, because at any range below 20km you're at constant threat of suddenly getting rammed:Smile_veryhappy:

 

Also, seeing how you literally opened this thread with words:

3 hours ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Im sure this is going to be controversial (...)

One might expect you to be a bit better prepared (and handle it more gracefully) when people don't necessarily agree with you... :cap_hmm:

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27 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

I guess its fine then, noone wants it to change so lets have the game exactly as it is, always.

If you get close to someone youre dead no matter what, got it. But still complain people long range snipe, but I guess thats how humanity works.


Sounds like someone doesn't like it when people, in your own words, "disagree all we we want".

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26 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

I guess its fine then, noone wants it to change so lets have the game exactly as it is, always.

If you get close to someone youre dead no matter what, got it. But still complain people long range snipe, but I guess thats how humanity works.

 

Mate, sorry to be blatant, but get off your high horse.
Is ramming perfect as it is now? No it isn't.
But even as it is now, its one form of tactical gameplay.
If you manage to trade your 5k hp ship for enemy 80k hp one, good job for you. If you let enemy do the same to you, well, too bad for you.
Even in competitive gameplay, managing to ram someone for a good trade, or focusing down a ship before he manages to get the ram shows the difference in knowledge about the game / situational awereness, or if you wish, skill in the game.
Also there are WASD keys implemented in the game, use them, and dodge the ram, and then blow the ship out of the water by shooting his broadside.

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Its not about disagreeing or agreeing. Its the hostility youre met with when someone suggests a change. You can see it all over the forum thats exactly why I wrote "controversial".

Youre met with 48 unicums in typhoon league defending WG to death even if they asked you to jump off a bridge. Youre never met with constructive criticism so you can have a decent and mature discussion, its always "I guess someone rammed you and now youre pissed".

No, its been bugging me since I started playing this game for various reasons. Its also the case that very bad players will tacticly aim at your ship even if theyre on full hp just so they can do some damage. As I said before you CANT avoid it, the only way to avoid it is to activly try and be as far away from enemy players as possible. If you manouvre to avoid it youll get citadeled to death because youre forced to show broadside.

Somehow I think none of the people replying in this thread are BB mains, as this issue is 100% a BB on BB issue.

 

FYI theres plenty of ship on ship collisions in history that didnt cause ships to sink. Theres even been battleships that accidently run into eachother. For example USS Washington accidently rammed USS Indiana, none of the ships sank.

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3 hours ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

ut it makes no sense that two ships boops eachother at 0,1 knots and both blow up from full hp

Will never happen. See below.

 

17 minutes ago, hellhound666 said:

i suppose some speed component should/could be included in dmg formula ...

 

It might surprise you, but there is a speed component.

 

The ramming damage is dependend from:

- ship classes and

- relative velocity

 

This is confirmed in many test. You can look here in this forum, there are a lot of threads regarding this topic.

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I suppose the answer really is to use the flag - I have hundreds of these which I never use because ramming seems a fairly rare occurrence - but I admit I don't play BBs much. I do agree that it is not a very realistic scenario but BBs getting that close would be very rare anyway. One could argue however  that ramming your own team mates is actually not punished enough!

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8 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Its not about disagreeing or agreeing. Its the hostility youre met with when someone suggests a change. You can see it all over the forum thats exactly why I wrote "controversial".

Youre met with 48 unicums in typhoon league defending WG to death even if they asked you to jump off a bridge. Youre never met with constructive criticism so you can have a decent and mature discussion, its always "I guess someone rammed you and now youre pissed".

No, its been bugging me since I started playing this game for various reasons. Its also the case that very bad players will tacticly aim at your ship even if theyre on full hp just so they can do some damage. As I said before you CANT avoid it, the only way to avoid it is to activly try and be as far away from enemy players as possible. If you manouvre to avoid it youll get citadeled to death because youre forced to show broadside.

Somehow I think none of the people replying in this thread are BB mains, as this issue is 100% a BB on BB issue.

 

FYI theres plenty of ship on ship collisions in history that didnt cause ships to sink. Theres even been battleships that accidently run into eachother. For example USS Washington accidently rammed USS Indiana, none of the ships sank.

 

Yup, thats a nice and constructive way to voice your opinion  on the forum.
But hey, I'm a Unicum in Huricane league, not in Typhoon, so I guess that wasn't meant for me.
BTW if I forced you to show me your broadside, and then killed you, doesn't that mean I've outplayed you?

PS. Yes, I'm well known for defending WG with my life, and never said anything against them, or the state of this game.

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1 minute ago, cro_pwr said:

 

Yup, thats a nice and constructive way to voice your opinion  on the forum.
But hey, I'm a Unicum in Huricane league, not in Typhoon, so I guess that wasn't meant for me.
BTW if I forced you to show me your broadside, and then killed you, doesn't that mean I've outplayed you?

PS. Yes, I'm well known for defending WG with my life, and never said anything against them, or the state of this game.

 

No it means youre willing to sacrifice your ship to kill mine. If I didnt turn away you would ram me and wed both die. How do I get out of such a situation without dying? Not getting into the situation in the first place can be impossible if you go around a corner and meet a ship that wasnt previously spotted.

Now I agree it happens very rarely so its not a huge issue. But I dont see how anyone thinks this is good gameplay, I just dont. And tbh so far I havent seen anyone explain why it is.

 

Even if you take a DD and ram a carrier at full speed (which Ive done for lulz) youll take 80% hp off the CV.

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1 minute ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

 

No it means youre willing to sacrifice your ship to kill mine. If I didnt turn away you would ram me and wed both die. How do I get out of such a situation without dying? Not getting into the situation in the first place can be impossible if you go around a corner and meet a ship that wasnt previously spotted.

Now I agree it happens very rarely so its not a huge issue. But I dont see how anyone thinks this is good gameplay, I just dont. And tbh so far I havent seen anyone explain why it is.

 

Even if you take a DD and ram a carrier at full speed (which Ive done for lulz) youll take 80% hp off the CV.

 

No, it means I've did a trade that benefits my team more then yours. (in case you aren't a tard in Tirpitz ramming 10k hp ship while you're at 90% hp, and sadly I've seen that)

And if you managed to get into a situation where you ran into unspotted freaking BB, then someone failed hard.

And on top of that, you still have your guns you know? If I can fire mine into your broadside, then you can fire yours into mine. If I managed to fire mine, and you didn't manage to fire yours, once again, I've outplayed you.

And no, you will not. Stop talking BS. You will deal your max HP, which is ~23k for highest HP DD in the game, which isn't 80% of lowest HP CV in the game.

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5 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

 

No, it means I've did a trade that benefits my team more then yours. (in case you aren't a tard in Tirpitz ramming 10k hp ship while you're at 90% hp, and sadly I've seen that)

And if you managed to get into a situation where you ran into unspotted freaking BB, then someone failed hard.

And on top of that, you still have your guns you know? If I can fire mine into your broadside, then you can fire yours into mine. If I managed to fire mine, and you didn't manage to fire yours, once again, I've outplayed you.

And no, you will not. Stop talking BS. You will deal your max HP, which is ~23k for highest HP DD in the game, which isn't 80% of lowest HP CV in the game.

 

No because the Tirptiz example you gave happens just as often and how do you counter that? Youre not exactly likely to citadel a Tirptiz to death either are you.

If I manage to run into an unspotted BB around the island who failed? The DDs for not spotting him? Im still asking, how do you counter it?

And yes I have my guns but Im not likely to kill him frontally before he rams me even if hes on only half hp, unless youre in a Yamato maybe.

Im still asking, if two ships meet head on, how do you counter that and survive if the enemy BB wants to ram you, no matter what yours or his hp are? He will aim at you, so hell always show his nose. If you turn away youll expose your full broadside and hell kill you

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If you really get caught off guard by an enemy BB and can't manoeuvre to avoid his ram then:

- he outplayed you,

- or your situational awareness let you down.

 

Either way: a valid tactic, frustrating on the recieving end ( you died + you met better player/you messed up) but rewarding on the dealer's end.

 

So no, I don't see why it should be removed.

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11 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

And no, you will not. Stop talking BS. You will deal your max HP

Well actually, with the flag, if you're close to max HP, you'll deal twice your max HPs in damage on impact. That because when you ram, the damage is applied to both you and the enemy, and with the flag, you may survive the damage if you're high on health enough, causing the ramming formula to happen again and damage to be applied a second time.

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