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Ship to venture to tier9/10

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Hello guys,

 

i would like to have some tips from experieced people for my decision finding.

 

I play normaly in the Tier 5-8, since i had the most fun with it and hadnt the exp/patience to venture beyond that tiers. But over the last weeks i manages to aquire enough exp to venture to tier9/10 and therefore i am searching for a new ship to start off.

 

My Data:

- No preferences to shipline, playstyle, ship type except carries(which i nearly never play/ed)

- i play the majority of my games with randoms

- I have 750k free exp to spend

- I am an average cacual player that normaly playes in cycles their i play alot and than nealy not at all.

 

Ship:

- No to dependent on the team

- No to dependent on the captain skills

- No to punishing if the ships perticular playstyle sweetspot is not met

- Does not have to be a jack of all trades. It is sufficient if the playstyle is met. For playstyle see point above

- Good ship to start of into the tiers and learn that tiers quirks

 

Note:

Since i dont have tier 10 ships i dont know how comparable the space event ships are to their tier 10 counterparts but i really enjoyed all ships except the paris. I had the most fun with the cruisers and did probably the best in the aurora, zaya.

 

 

It would be nice if someone could tell me a good start off ship that i can use as a footholding for further development in the tier9/10. Also extra heplful if a ship for each ship type could be mentioned.

 

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Well you say that you did the best in the Zao and the Moskva, so I assume you're looking for something that can effectively fight even in medium to long ranges.

  • If you're looking for a cruiser line with that in mind, I would indeed recommend the Zao. It is an amazing ship with massive HE potential. I'm also assuming that Hindenburg would fit that playstyle (however I don't have it yet so I can't speak from experience).
  • For battleships, I only have the Montana and Großer Kurfürst. GK has that standard german idiot-proof armor that makes it very difficult to citadel and can mount relatively large guns. Its drawbacks when compared to the montana however are that it is much larger and therefore much more vulnerable to CV attacks, and also its firing arcs aren't as good, which means you need to show more of your broadside to fire all your guns.
  • For DDs....well that's slightly more difficult to say, but I think that for a start, US dds might be the better choice, because they aren't particularly terrible at any of the tiers.

 

As for my personal favorites:

  • There is Baltimore and Des moines. Both very amazing ships with massive AP damage potential, but they require you to get slightly closer because of their slower shells, and also Baltimore plays more or less identically as the DM, making it a good training ship for the tier 10.
  • And ofcourse Zao. Like I mentioned before it's a good ship, but Ibuki really isn't a good representation of the line. It is a bit painful to get through it, but in the end, it's worth it.

 

 

 

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Since you tested the ships is space battles, then you actually got an idea on how they play.

 

The ships themselves have the same attributes and playstyles in "real life" random battles so there is no particular difference although they have preselected upgrades and there is only one map to play on.

So you actually have a nice testing ground for some T10 ships.

 

I would go with @domen3 here with his recommendations and additionally I would advise not to skip the T9 ship since it prepares you for the T10 on every line+ you get a breather wehen you get into T7 matches as top tier.

You should apend your free XP on immediatly upgrading the T9 ships though, since stock they lack a lot.

 

Zao, with the Ibuki up front is the obvious choice since you liked it in Space battles

Hindenburg with the amazing Roon at T9 is awesome to aim for since it is the most versatile cruiser. The line is mediocre untill T8 though.

Minotaur is a special case. You will have to like the playstyle and really have to play the majority of the line to learn/adjust.

Henry plays a lot like Zao with different treats and the line is also kind of similar.

Moskva is totally different to the line with Donskoi and Chapayev in it. Russians play like the French and Jp up to T9 and the Moskva is then a different beast.

US line will receive a Split in the near future , so this is a line that will receive changes. The grind to the Des Moines is at T7-9 a tough one atm but doable and the ships are good but you have to like them

 

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11 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Well you say that you did the best in the Zao and the Moskva, so I assume you're looking for something that can effectively fight even in medium to long ranges.

  • If you're looking for a cruiser line with that in mind, I would indeed recommend the Zao. It is an amazing ship with massive HE potential. I'm also assuming that Hindenburg would fit that playstyle (however I don't have it yet so I can't speak from experience).
  • For battleships, I only have the Montana and Großer Kurfürst. GK has that standard german idiot-proof armor that makes it very difficult to citadel and can mount relatively large guns. Its drawbacks when compared to the montana however are that it is much larger and therefore much more vulnerable to CV attacks, and also its firing arcs aren't as good, which means you need to show more of your broadside to fire all your guns.
  • For DDs....well that's slightly more difficult to say, but I think that for a start, US dds might be the better choice, because they aren't particularly terrible at any of the tiers.

 

As for my personal favorites:

  • There is Baltimore and Des moines. Both very amazing ships with massive AP damage potential, but they require you to get slightly closer because of their slower shells, and also Baltimore plays more or less identically as the DM, making it a good training ship for the tier 10.
  • And ofcourse Zao. Like I mentioned before it's a good ship, but Ibuki really isn't a good representation of the line. It is a bit painful to get through it, but in the end, it's worth it.

 

 

 

Thank you for you detailed answer.

 

I assume the Großer Kurfürst is the alldestoyer from the space ship event?

Also as a follow up question you would not recommend the moskva or you yourself have simply no experience on your own to make a response?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, sorutas said:

I assume the Großer Kurfürst is the alldestoyer from the space ship event?

Yes

11 minutes ago, sorutas said:

Also as a follow up question you would not recommend the moskva or you yourself have simply no experience on your own to make a response?

Kind of both. I have only tested moskva in the space battles and on the PTS, that being said I think I know enough about it to have a reasonable opinion.

Moskva itself is basically a battlecruiser that is leaning more towards cruisers in wows. While it has arguably the best cruiser guns in the game, the ship itself is massive. It is in fact so big, it can get outspotted, or at least very close to having the same concealment as a lot of battleships it meets. You also need to be good at adapting, because the soviet cruiser line can get quite different with each tier. It's a mix of CAs and CLs, with some of them having decent armor, and others being complete glass cannons. Basically there is no ship that can teach you how to play the moskva before you actually get it.

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5 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Yes

Kind of both. I have only tested moskva in the space battles and on the PTS, that being said I think I know enough about it to have a reasonable opinion.

Moskva itself is basically a battlecruiser that is leaning towards cruisers in wows. While it has arguably the best cruiser guns in the game, the ship itself is massive. It is in fact so big, it can get outspotted (or at least very close to having the same concealment) by even a lot of battleships it meets. You also need to be good at adapting, because the soviet cruiser line can get quite different with each tier. It's a mix of CAs and CLs, with some of them having decent armor, and others being complete glass cannons. Basically there is no ship that can teach you how to play the moskva before you actually get it.

Hmm ok so i will never get the experience in the russian line until the moskva...thats a bumer. Does that also apply for the zao?

 

What of the two ships/lines(russian, jp, moskva, zao) is more friendly if you didnt play in their tiers?

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7 minutes ago, sorutas said:

Hmm ok so i will never get the experience in the russian line until the moskva...thats a bumer. Does that also apply for the zao?

 

What of the two ships/lines(russian, jp, moskva, zao) is more friendly if you didnt play in their tiers?

This doesn't really apply to zao, no. At least not as much. Basically, zao is played the same way as tiers 8 and 9, but with the ability to do so at much greater range, because it has much faster shells. It's a straight up upgrade to the Ibuki. And also, even if you don't learn how to play the IJN line properly, zao's concealment is excellent, so if you make a mistake, it's easier to hide and run away, while in a moskva you can't really do that.

 

That being said, try to avoid completely skipping a line. Lower tiers might provide some valuable insight into the lines themselves.

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17 minutes ago, LilJumpa said:

Since you tested the ships is space battles, then you actually got an idea on how they play.

 

The ships themselves have the same attributes and playstyles in "real life" random battles so there is no particular difference although they have preselected upgrades and there is only one map to play on.

So you actually have a nice testing ground for some T10 ships.

 

I would go with @domen3 here with his recommendations and additionally I would advise not to skip the T9 ship since it prepares you for the T10 on every line+ you get a breather wehen you get into T7 matches as top tier.

You should apend your free XP on immediatly upgrading the T9 ships though, since stock they lack a lot.

 

Zao, with the Ibuki up front is the obvious choice since you liked it in Space battles

Hindenburg with the amazing Roon at T9 is awesome to aim for since it is the most versatile cruiser. The line is mediocre untill T8 though.

Minotaur is a special case. You will have to like the playstyle and really have to play the majority of the line to learn/adjust.

Henry plays a lot like Zao with different treats and the line is also kind of similar.

Moskva is totally different to the line with Donskoi and Chapayev in it. Russians play like the French and Jp up to T9 and the Moskva is then a different beast.

US line will receive a Split in the near future , so this is a line that will receive changes. The grind to the Des Moines is at T7-9 a tough one atm but doable and the ships are good but you have to like them

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

I would have a follow up questions:

 

1: I did read about the splitt in the US line but didnt find to detailed informations about the. Will the Des Moines(i assume its the galaxy in the space event) stay as she is?

 

2: Does the Neptune play also like the Minotaur?

 

3: Whats the special difference between the Zao and the Henry. I actually didnt play any French ship until now. Simply didnt find them interestin enough to invest my time in their lines.

 

4: Is their any cruiser line in tier 9 10 with guns like the moskva, since it the trait i like most about that ship. I dont mean the caliber in perticular but the overall "feeling" of them.

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51 minutes ago, sorutas said:

- No to dependent on the team

- No to dependent on the captain skills

These 2 points exclude about 100% of ships that are above tier 1

 

Every ships depends on their team to some extent. You rely on DDs to cap and spot, CAs / CLs to support allied and kill enemy DDs,  BBs to kill cruisers, your team overall to focus a BB and a CV for literally everything.

 

Captain skills are VERY important. Difference between correct skills (like concealment) and bad ones (like expert rear gunner on KGV or fiery takeoff on any CV) can make or break the game

 

24 minutes ago, sorutas said:

Also as a follow up question you would not recommend the moskva or you yourself have simply no experience on your own to make a response?

Moskva has some.... "interesting" armour, you could say. Midships armour plating (was it 50mm?) can comfortably bounce even BB shells, but bow / stern are very vulnerable. And when those shells do penetrate her - citadelling a Moskva isn't exactly rare

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3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

These 2 points exclude about 100% of ships that are above tier 1

 

Every ships depends on their team to some extent. You rely on DDs to cap and spot, CAs / CLs to support allied and kill enemy DDs,  BBs to kill cruisers, your team overall to focus a BB and a CV for literally everything.

 

Captain skills are VERY important. Difference between correct skills (like concealment) and bad ones (like expert rear gunner on KGV or fiery takeoff on any CV) can make or break the game

 

Moskva has some.... "interesting" armour, you could say. Midships armour plating (was it 50mm?) can comfortably bounce even BB shells, but bow / stern are very vulnerable. And when those shells do penetrate her - citadelling a Moskva isn't exactly rare

Thank you for your answer.

 

I wrote it not completly correct. I suppose "too" would be a better word for my preferences. Which means i cant allways expect in a random battle to have any kind of teamplay/objective and so on.

 

I meantioned the captain because some ships have a all around good base to start with and some need the skills to mitigate a weakness or improve their strength to outshine their weakness.

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13 minutes ago, domen3 said:

This doesn't really apply to zao, no. At least not as much. Basically, zao is played the same way as tiers 8 and 9, but with the ability to do so at much greater range, because it has much faster shells. It's a straight up upgrade to the Ibuki. And also, even if you don't learn how to play the IJN line properly, zao's concealment is excellent, so if you make a mistake, it's easier to hide and run away, while in a moskva you can't really do that.

 

That being said, try to avoid completely skipping a line. Lower tiers might provide some valuable insight into the lines themselves.

I suppose tier 9 and 10 jp line would be the logical better line to start off.

I think i play some games with the space corresponding ships for the zao and moskva to make a desicion. I simply like the guns of the moskva much more than the zoas or the over cruiser in that matter.

 

 

Another question since you mentioned you have the montana. Is that ship in the core an improved version of the Alabame? I liked the later a lot.

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1 hour ago, sorutas said:

- I have 750k free exp to spend

Oh, just remembered, a point about this.

 

If you want to spend it - do not use FreeXP to skip a ship (well, unless the ship is unbearably bad like the Monarch :Smile_teethhappy:), use it to unlock modules so you don't need to play the ship stock. That's a much better way to go about it, and you'll learn along the way :cap_like:

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11 minutes ago, sorutas said:

I suppose tier 9 and 10 jp line would be the logical better line to start off.

I think i play some games with the space corresponding ships for the zao and moskva to make a desicion. I simply like the guns of the moskva much more than the zoas or the over cruiser in that matter.

 

 

Another question since you mentioned you have the montana. Is that ship in the core an improved version of the Alabame? I liked the later a lot.

It's difficult to compare these two ships. For the US BB line you really shouldn't skip any of the high tier ships. North carolina (which is very similar to the alabama) is an amazing ship. The Iowa after it is even more so, however with these ships you really need to learn how to play them because they are a lot bigger, and montana is basically an iowa with an added turret and reduced mobility.

 

If you were to compare montana and alabama it would be:

Montana Alabama
More accurate/reliable Less accurate/reliable
Slightly better armor Slightly worse armor
Worse concealment Better concealment
Worse maneuvering Better maneuvering

 

You REALLY shouldn't skip Iowa. It's an amazing ship (arguably one of the best battleships tier for tier), but if after you upgrade it, you still don't manage to play her well, then you probably won't like montana either.

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22 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

These 2 points exclude about 100% of ships that are above tier 1

 

Every ships depends on their team to some extent. You rely on DDs to cap and spot, CAs / CLs to support allied and kill enemy DDs,  BBs to kill cruisers, your team overall to focus a BB and a CV for literally everything.

 

Captain skills are VERY important. Difference between correct skills (like concealment) and bad ones (like expert rear gunner on KGV or fiery takeoff on any CV) can make or break the game

 

Moskva has some.... "interesting" armour, you could say. Midships armour plating (was it 50mm?) can comfortably bounce even BB shells, but bow / stern are very vulnerable. And when those shells do penetrate her - citadelling a Moskva isn't exactly rare

Since you mentioned the moskva i would have a question about its "real" gameplay.

 

I only played the aurora in the space battles and the experience from that battle is that i dont get focused that much from the enemy ship, especially the battleships, eventhough its so easy to see and i seem to do lack luster damage to the BB's. Also my plastyle was to seeks defence in the group or fight from island cover.

 

Just want to know if that experience appllies to the "real" battles.

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5 minutes ago, sorutas said:

Since you mentioned the moskva i would have a question about its "real" gameplay.

 

I only played the aurora in the space battles and the experience from that battle is that i dont get focused that much from the enemy ship, especially the battleships, eventhough its so easy to see and i seem to do lack luster damage to the BB's. Also my plastyle was to seeks defence in the group or fight from island cover.

 

Just want to know if that experience appllies to the "real" battles.

Moskva has the worst stealth of all cruisers, so she will have problems hiding. And since it's a radar cruiser (with that large citadel as added benefit for the attacker) - at least I do focus them quite a lot.

 

Strong ship, don't get me wrong, Moskva's definitely no weakling, but it can be punished quite hard even if you don't actually misplay.

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8 minutes ago, domen3 said:

It's difficult to compare these two ships. For the US BB line you really shouldn't skip any of the high tier ships. North carolina (which is very similar to the alabama) is an amazing ship. The Iowa after it is even more so, however with these ships you really need to learn how to play them because they are a lot bigger, and montana is basically an iowa with an added turret and reduced mobility.

 

If you were to compare montana and alabama it would be:

Montana Alabama
More accurate/reliable Less accurate/reliable
Slightly better armor Slightly worse armor
Worse concealment Better concealment
Worse maneuvering Better maneuvering

 

You REALLY shouldn't skip Iowa. It's an amazing ship (arguably one of the best battleships tier for tier), but if after you upgrade it, you still don't manage to play her well, then you probably won't like montana either.

Hmm so is basically a fat alabama. I suppose i have to play the tier 9 ships eventhought its so tempting to jump over them.

 

Thank you for your detailed answers and putting up with a novice. I will you the exp to buy some tier 9s to test the higher tiers and the ship line before going to tiert ten. It only bothers me that i cant realy test a moskva like ship.

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3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Moskva has the worst stealth of all cruisers, so she will have problems hiding. And since it's a radar cruiser (with that large citadel as added benefit for the attacker) - at least I do focus them quite a lot.

 

Strong ship, don't get me wrong, Moskva's definitely no weakling, but it can be punished quite hard even if you don't actually misplay.

Thanks. It seem to need a lot of situational awarnes and for that i would need the "feeling" of the other tier 9 and 10 ships, to be actually be good or master this ship. To bad i really like the guns. I suppose i have to grab it later.

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43 minutes ago, sorutas said:

Thank you for your answer.

 

I would have a follow up questions:

 

1: I did read about the splitt in the US line but didnt find to detailed informations about the. Will the Des Moines(i assume its the galaxy in the space event) stay as she is?

 

2: Does the Neptune play also like the Minotaur?

 

3: Whats the special difference between the Zao and the Henry. I actually didnt play any French ship until now. Simply didnt find them interestin enough to invest my time in their lines.

 

4: Is their any cruiser line in tier 9 10 with guns like the moskva, since it the trait i like most about that ship. I dont mean the caliber in perticular but the overall "feeling" of them.

1. yes, she will not change. The split is a work in progress and the ships are being tested atm

59fb45c764091_usncruisersplit.thumb.jpg.

 

2. In principle the RN cruisers all play alike at T5-10. You have to utilize the smoke, know your AP/torps and have a feel for positioning and timing.

Only the ship characteristics differ like concealment, manouverability, gun setup, torpedos etc. 

Minotaur is ofc the queen here with her insane shell output which none of the predecessors have.

 

3. Main difference is the concealment. While Zao can get down to 9.7 km with full build, the Henry is seen from space. So the Zao can be played differently in this regard, if you want to.

 

4. Caliber wise, and therefore penetration capability, the Henry is the most comparable. If you are thinking shell arc and ballistics, then Zao, Hindenburg and Henry are pretty much alike here

 

 

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4 minutes ago, LilJumpa said:

1. yes, she will not change. The split is a work in progress and the ships are being tested atm

59fb45c764091_usncruisersplit.thumb.jpg.

 

2. In principle the RN cruisers all play alike at T5-10. You have to utilize the smoke, know your AP/torps and have a feel for positioning and timing.

Only the ship characteristics differ like concealment, manouverability, gun setup, torpedos etc. 

Minotaur is ofc the queen here with her insane shell output which none of the predecessors have.

 

3. Main difference is the concealment. While Zao can get down to 9.7 km with full build, the Henry is seen from space. So the Zao can be played differently in this regard, if you want to.

 

4. Caliber wise, and therefore penetration capability, the Henry is the most comparable. If you are thinking shell arc and ballistics, then Zao, Hindenburg and Henry are pretty much alike here

 

 

Thank you for the informations.

 

I suppose the Zao is the obvious choice in the cruiser line.

 

As a side question is it allready defined what the quirk of the new US cruiser line will be?

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5 minutes ago, sorutas said:

 

As a side question is it allready defined what the quirk of the new US cruiser line will be?

 

The new line will be light Cruisers with 152mm guns while the old line will have the heavy cruisers with 203mm

 

Those are the only real differences up to date. Caliber and rate of fire.

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2 hours ago, domen3 said:

 

  • For DDs....well that's slightly more difficult to say, but I think that for a start, US dds might be the better choice, because they aren't particularly terrible at any of the tiers.

 

Though trajectory of USN 127mm/38 anti-air catapult/mortar means need to get closer where mistakes get easily punished.

Outgunning /DPMming enemy destroyer doesn't help much, if in the process half the enemy teams empties their gun barrels on your ship.

 

Most Soviet destroyers again don't work at all for going to closer ranges because of lacking stealth, but excel at 10+km range bombardment of anything while cruising fast or very very fast.

 

52 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Moskva has the worst stealth of all cruisers, so she will have problems hiding. And since it's a radar cruiser (with that large citadel as added benefit for the attacker) - at least I do focus them quite a lot.

 

Strong ship, don't get me wrong, Moskva's definitely no weakling, but it can be punished quite hard even if you don't actually misplay.

Well, it's not like other cruisers won't get punished.

Some Des Moines will be punished lot more easily from mistake at ranges where it needs to be to do damage while also being squishier.

Again Moskva is all about its guns which can punish anything from long range.

 

 

 

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You can check out Henri IV. It has got a few characteristics similar to Moskva and that's the range, HP and sheer damage per salvo. It has arguably better maneuverability than Moskva, especially with speed boost. It also has torps that may help situationally. You will however lose utility that Moskva has like radar and AA. You also lose tankiness and will have to rely on dodging shells. I have tried it in PTS and as far as I can tell, it feels like a Russian-IJN hybrid which you find enjoyable, combining Moskva's range and damage per salvo with Zao's good HE (Henri has the best fire chance) and potent AP (best alpha damage).

 

Have a better look at the details of the ship in this site: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Henri_IV

 

 

Also, did you try Norma (Minotaur)?

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23 hours ago, GeneralSavage said:

 

You can check out Henri IV. It has got a few characteristics similar to Moskva and that's the range, HP and sheer damage per salvo. It has arguably better maneuverability than Moskva, especially with speed boost. It also has torps that may help situationally. You will however lose utility that Moskva has like radar and AA. You also lose tankiness and will have to rely on dodging shells. I have tried it in PTS and as far as I can tell, it feels like a Russian-IJN hybrid which you find enjoyable, combining Moskva's range and damage per salvo with Zao's good HE (Henri has the best fire chance) and potent AP (best alpha damage).

 

Have a better look at the details of the ship in this site: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Henri_IV

 

 

Also, did you try Norma (Minotaur)?

Thanks for the response. Yes Henry does look interesting. Since i am still pondering what to buy i may go for it.

 

I did play the Norma and since i love my atlanta i also love its gameplay. But i am just avarage with my atlanta and only play ist because its fun for me and not because i am good with it.

 

I think the same would apply to the minotaur for me.

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10 minutes ago, sorutas said:

Thanks for the response. Yes Henry does look interesting. Since i am still pondering what to buy i may go for it.

 

I did play the Norma and since i love my atlanta i also love its gameplay. But i am just avarage with my atlanta and only play ist because its fun for me and not because i am good with it.

 

I think the same would apply to the minotaur for me.

Just keep in mind that that players in the space battles are sh*t....it might be more difficult to play the same ships in random battles.

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16 hours ago, domen3 said:

Just keep in mind that that players in the space battles are sh*t....it might be more difficult to play the same ships in random battles.

Truth right there. Never have I seen so many Moskva broadsides in my life.

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[3STG]
Players
322 posts
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All above are on point, but, one should never underestimate the Hinderburg. I know that there are ppl that don't like it (too much) but never they have complained about it being bad. It is very, very strong ship and if you like the Zao, this will be no dissapointment to you. The grind is / will be somewhat painfull at least atm..

 

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