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jako737

So, let's see what i'm doing wrong now....

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OK folks,

 

So if we take Winrate as a true indication of someones performance, i MUST be doing something wrong in all my tier 10 cruisers. What bothers me however is that, for example, i have a 71% wr in the ibuki as of now, which quite confuses me.

 

My t10 cruisers have had a 4% drop since the release of the french bb line. I remember it being the same for the British bbs. Hoewever, i decided to post a couple of replays. 

Disclaimer: you'll se mee going real mad at some point, but i really could'nt help but to do so.

 

 

Please let me know exactly what i should have done instead because at this stage i am so extremely confused. I want to see if there is better stuff i could have done (for sure there is) to carry the teams before i state on this forum that its a matter of teams being c**p

 

 

20180406_004430_PGSC110-Hindenburg_47_Sleeping_Giant.wowsreplay

20180406_114711_PGSC110-Hindenburg_35_NE_north_winter.wowsreplay

20180406_003207_PGSC110-Hindenburg_40_Okinawa.wowsreplay


EDIT: i don't generally play that insignificantly at to such a "bad" level, however i really did not know what to do in order to turn those sitautions. 

Also, i'm not posting 3 random replays, those are my last 3 hindy matches.

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WR does not say much with low number of games.

You play a lot of division games and you seem to play better alone.

 

Any changes in your divisionmates? How is the coordination?

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6 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

WR does not say much with low number of games.

You play a lot of division games and you seem to play better alone.

 

Any changes in your divisionmates? How is the coordination?

It's true, i play a lot in a division.

There are two factors regarding that:

1- I enjoy playing with those dudes from a purely human perspective. We tend to have fun or simply rage together :D

2- If it's true that they (just as me) are not super-unicums, i almost entirely stopped playin' solo since the release of the french bb as i'd rather have 1 or 2 averages with me on which i can sort of count rather than going in with 11 randoms sniping from 23 KMs away. I truely understand that perhaps those 2 spots may be allocated to 2 super-unicums, but so far it has not been the case. 
 

Communication is neither bad nor super. Certainly there is a lot of improvement on that side. For example i happen to play a lot of high tier with one yammy player who definetely  needs to improve his awarnes of when to push and when to kyte and with another bb player who is just too much "i am a bb, i MUST tank for the others" oriented which often leads him to be the one and only tanking and sinking. I think that is something we should most definetely improve and coordinate better our moves. However i can guarantee (you see it, i'm here as an "open book" so no need to say BS), most of our losses are with our division right up in the top of the scoreboard. Where we able to carry? No, actually not, but at least i know we did something to try!

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[B0TS]
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For what it is worth:-

 

Yes, W/R is a very good measure of a players contribution to the battle - but, the convention seems to be that you need at least 50 battles per ship to get an idea, preferably 100+ for a more consistent picture.

 

Your Ibuki stat stands out for being good, perhaps that is because of the significantly lower number of battles and RNG working in your favour. The stats for your other T9/T10 ships suggest that you are not cautious enough in your gameplay (no I do not mean you should be camping at the back or always behind an island). We all suffer from CA's getting deleted quickly (and early) and not making a good contribution in those battles, it's learning how to avoid that happening while still being effective. That lesson I am still learning.

 

Do you generally radar or smoke Mino'?

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I think there’s a tendency for cruiser WR to go down a bit following WG releasing a new BB line. Whenever a new BB line is released the meta goes from BB to super BB with plenty of snipers not supporting DDs and CA/CL. CA/CL however still tends to take all the omfgrofllolcitadel from BBs everywhere, they’re just that much closer than the rest of the team because of their limited range ☺️

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5 minuti fa, philjd ha scritto:

For what it is worth:-

 

Yes, W/R is a very good measure of a players contribution to the battle - but, the convention seems to be that you need at least 50 battles per ship to get an idea, preferably 100+ for a more consistent picture.

 

Your Ibuki stat stands out for being good, perhaps that is because of the significantly lower number of battles and RNG working in your favour. The stats for your other T9/T10 ships suggest that you are not cautious enough in your gameplay (no I do not mean you should be camping at the back or always behind an island). We all suffer from CA's getting deleted quickly (and early) and not making a good contribution in those battles, it's learning how to avoid that happening while still being effective. That lesson I am still learning.

 

Do you generally radar or smoke Mino'?

Thank you for your answer.

I smoke in the mino. I really want to try it out with radar but i have the feeling that it would put me out of the fight so much earlier...

My playstyle is that of : i am a cruiser. I will do all i can to help my DDs get the caps, play the objective. I will try my best to defend my BBs from enemy dds and CVs (although i never spec for AA since there are not so many CVs around). I genuinly try to not "YOLOO!" but as of lately i found myself being consistently the only one understanding the concept of "support the objective capture by the DDs", which has often lead me to be the most forward spotted ship. However i really struggle to simply camp with the rest of the B/H line holiday makers, simply because i struggle to accept that "we won't even fight for map control, lets handle it to the enemy and get pushed all within one square"

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Your Ibuki has only 24 games played, easily could have been just a lucky strike. Get at least 30...50 games before you start looking at the WR as an indicator

 

If you filter your cruisers for "Minimum battles played: 30" (or even 50) it becomes much more uniform with only the Payfast jumping out (and tier 6 cruisers to some extent).

 

 

I'm far from being a decent CA player, so looking at those replays probably wouldn't be all too useful (leave that to actual CA players), but just going from your high-tier CA stats I'd take a guess that a lot of your time you spend hunting and burning BBs? While that produces nice "dmg dealt" numbers, it's kind of a useless damage most of the time. BBs generally tend to be low priority targets (emphasis on generally), with DDs taking the highest priority of targets to go for. As a comparison you could say that every 1k dmg you deal to a DD is worth about 6k....6.5k to a BB. Just focusing the correct ships can go a long way in the correct direction :cap_like:

 

Also as mentioned above - you play a lot in divisions (nothing wrong with that, makes the game so so much more enjoyable), but in divisions you do worse than solo. So there are 2 possibilities -> either in divisions you tend to play more "for fun" thus doing stupid stuff and losing more because of it, or your usual divisionmates are dragging you down by being noticeably lower-skill than you are :cap_yes:

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Looking at the replays:

1st one (Sleeping Giant) was just a non-starter from the beginning. Your DDs didn't want to play the game. Game Over.

2nd one (North) could have ended differently if your DDs had gotten support. Despite you specifically commenting on them all going C, not a single ship on your team supported them (including you). So their push for that cap was completely wasted and you lost 2 DDs pretty much at the start because of that. It was just downhill from there with almost everyone just sitting on the starting cap.

3rd one (Okinawa) was the biggest misplay from you. You only had 2 DDs and both went B, yet you stayed pretty far back on the C side of the map for whatever reason even though you knew that the enemy had just a DD which capped C uncontested. C was lost almost immediately but you still stayed there (at max range). Don't get me started on your division mate... holy hell.

 

What I noticed throughout was that you tend to keep firing your guns pretty much all the time. You never tried to seek out better positions, just damage farming. At least early in the battle you should use your concealment to get into positions where you can support cap pushes.

You also didn't seem to care where your team were going. Plinking away at BBs with HE is all well and good, but it's not going to mean anything if you're the only one shooting them. If you are alone on one flank shooting a BB on your side of the enemy pack and your team shooting ships closer to them at the other side, not much is going to get done. Lemming trains aren't the best strategy, but being the only one pelting a BB is also not very productive. If your team all go A, then nothing is going to change by you alone covering the other two caps at long range. Better add your firepower to the blob and hope you reach critical mass to be able to push B eventually.

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39 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

As a comparison you could say that every 1k dmg you deal to a DD is worth about 6k....6.5k to a BB. Just focusing the correct ships can go a long way in the correct direction :cap_like:

I think you underestimate the importance of damage to DDs, actually :Smile-_tongue:

 

No, seriously:

 - BBs have roughly 5 times as much HP as DDs

 - BBs have heal, so a BB brought low won't usually stay low - especially if the damage is mostly a mix of HE and fire damage; DDs (with very few exceptions) that lose hp will have to account for this loss for the rest of the match

 - there are usually more BBs (so one BB down is often 1/5 while one DD often being 1/3 loss) and BBs' boots are easier to fill (BBs are important but in most cases I'd rather lose my last BB than my last DD)

 

All things considered, I'd value DD hp shaved off as roughly ten times more important in most games. More if the match has very few DDs (due to MM or because most got themselves killed early). A bit less if there's a 5v5 DD thing going on. Of course, actual tactical situation can completely overturn any theoretical factors, recognizing what to shoot in particular siituation is one of the most important skills a WoWs player needs to develop :Smile_smile:

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1st replay - You missed out on an opportunity to move into A after the moskva died and your friend in the yamato started trading with the other yamato, instead you chose to move to the other side of the map and attempt to teamkill your shimakaze. Try some words of encouragement next time, something like "Shima, go cap C/B and I'll assist you". Teamkilling just makes you look like a jerk. 1/3
2nd replay - You followed the crowd at the beginning, but then decided to sit at the back of B, outside of hydro range and chose to just continue sitting there. You then towards the end called your team cowards, forgetting that you had moved with them during the beginning of the match. I can't tell whether this is irony, sarcasm or being an oblivious jerk. Doesn't do well for your image, 2/3 jerks right there...

3rd replay - sat at the back of the map, sniping and firing guns instead of moving to a commanding position to help your team DD's cap locations. Again the irony is palpable, as you moan at the Republique for being "far away", ignoring that he was infact resposible for capping A... something you should have been doing. 3/3 on the jerk scale.

All in all, these 3 replays fail to paint you in an overwhelmingly positive light, and it appears that your go to reasoning for playing poorly is that someone else is always at fault. Curb your toxicity, if you can't learn to play with others and be helpful, then don't play. Also don't come on here and and ask for help when the reasons should be blindingly obvious. Watch the replays yourself and try to figure out what kind of jerk you are.

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I would first like to point out the following: i have PURPOSEFULLY uploaded what i regard as the worst of my possible gameplay. Therefore i expect you to understand this.

I could easily upload the "best of" compilation, but it would not be of any good to the topic.

 

Also, please notice the state of mind in which i basically entered those games...i was so already frustrated that the moment i saw my team positioning go to heck, i lost any decent will to put up a fight.

 

As for those who took the time to whatch the "worst of" compilation: thank you.

 

I would like to reply to a couple of points in my excuse, this not meaning that the vast majority of what was pointed out is incorrect.

As for North, i actually was the only one to try and support the grozorvoi that tried to go for the cap where i spawned. I was not all too effective, however i was still the only one (that i can recall) taking shots at the gearing.

 

As for okinawa, the dude in the replubique spawned at C and purposefully sailed all the way to A to gain as much distance from the actual fight as possible. I don't buy a single penny of "he's actually capping" simply because he went where he was as far away from any major red force as possible. I would have never allowed my self to criticize the gentlemen had i not 1st encountered him already and saw him snipe from 20+ km away and second saw him pushing A for the sole purpose of "lets take my BB to what is regarded as the worst cap for a BB to go to" simply because all the enemy BBs are somewhere else.

 

Now, for a second or two : i am here to seek and get criticism,  however some of the above comments are pointing at "you are the one who did everything wrong in teams that gave you so much support!". I am the first to point out these are some of the lowest low of my gameplay. However it seems to me like there is a lot of failiure to realize the rest of the team positioning. If its true i can support DDs and take some better positioning, it is also true that , on North for example, i was consistently the most advanced ship of my entire fleet (dds excluded) while the rest comfy hanging the C line. So please gentlemen, while you tell me what i could have done better (and again, there is a lot, considering how badly i was more or less consciously playing), don't forget one thing: i can be the hero of the situation and i'll sink in 3 seconds. I don't have the HP pool to stand 6 ships targeting me in an attempt to single-handedly support the DD while the other stay as far as possible. 

 

One thing is to say "perhaps you could have moved in this direction and that direction", one another thing is criticizing me "blindly" for not staying front line while the rest of the team was simply all relax and sniping.

 

As for Sleeping Giant, you are right. This was the very first time i shot at allied on purpose. Am i proud of it? nope. Do i regret it? Nope.. However that incident does nothing but highlights how frustrated i am right now of these battles where my team does nothing but blob in one place or simply stand as back as possible. 

I could actually upload a replay from yesterday where me, a hindemburg, had to play the dd role and phisically go and cap because the dd thought it was a great idea to rush a desmoines 1 minute into the match. So please gentlemen, figure out i am purposefully uploading THE WORST of me to understand how to at least try to save such situations


Furthermore: I clearly was sarcastic about the ibuki winrate. Comeon i can't be so stupid.

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22 minutes ago, jako737 said:

Also, please notice the state of mind in which i basically entered those games...i was so already frustrated that the moment i saw my team positioning go to heck, i lost any decent will to put up a fight.

All gameplay advices aside, if your state of mind and your frustration let you give up on a game right from the beginning and you know that, don't start into a battle at all. Take a break, go outside, do something else and calm down. Playing while you are frustrated or angry won't help you in any way to become better, nor will it help your team (*cough* team damage *cough*).

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13 minuti fa, Tungstonid ha scritto:

All gameplay advices aside, if your state of mind and your frustration let you give up on a game right from the beginning and you know that, don't start into a battle at all. Take a break, go outside, do something else and calm down. Playing while you are frustrated or angry won't help you in any way to become better, nor will it help your team (*cough* team damage *cough*).

True. Totally true. It comes down to me as being the type of guy that will try over and over again to reach the objective. However, i should really stop and do something else if i am in that state. (again for the team damage, this is the first time i do it on purpose. I am not proud of it, but please also consider that another player actually decided to sink the same guys after my volley..frustration was high. But i'm not excused!)

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You should know that normaly the WR of players decreases with Tier, as the higher Tier you go, the gameplay gets more demanding.

That is completly normal and applies to most players.

 

If you want to improve, I suggest to focus the Mid-Tiers (IV to VII) for a bit with your teammates and practice coordinating your gameplay. A three man divison can have a huge positive impact on the results of a match and you should take advantage of that.

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Just for you to see, when i'm not in a terribad mood i play somewhat decent. And more than anything i DO support my DDs as much as i can,

(I am uploading this for the pure purpose of demonstrating that the original post replays are actually me in a "BAD!" way.)

 

As for Colonel Pete (which i just found in a match), it is true what you say. However i noticed about a 4% drop in my high tier WR lately and from that the discussion. From 50ish to 48 with lows of 46. 

20180407_172458_PGSC110-Hindenburg_19_OC_prey.wowsreplay

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WR does not depend entirely on you. You can't support absolutely everyone in your team as a cruiser nor can can you delete a cruiser that's been broadside for 5 minutes with a BB. Sometimes RNG loves to cuddle you with some love and that may cost you an easy victory. Sometimes your team's only DD/radar cruiser might have been abducted by an alien and end up AFK for obvious reasons. And then there's people who get triggered and spend more time using the keyboard for blabbering in chat than using their ship. As if they were any more useful than the AFK player. 

 

My Iowa has the same WR problem as yours. I admit I was absolutely crap in my first few battles (I suffered from NC Syndrome) but I eventually got used to the Mark 7s and now successfully dealing hits on DDs and cruisers.(Primary targets being a USN BB.)

 

I just want to conclude by saying that there is a limit as to how much one can do for his/her team.  

Unfortunately there is no mechanic yet that allows you to control your useless teammate's ship while he is busy arguing in chat.

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21 minuti fa, GeneralSavage ha scritto:

WR does not depend entirely on you. You can't support absolutely everyone in your team as a cruiser nor can can you delete a cruiser that's been broadside for 5 minutes with a BB. Sometimes RNG loves to cuddle you with some love and that may cost you an easy victory. Sometimes your team's only DD/radar cruiser might have been abducted by an alien and end up AFK for obvious reasons. And then there's people who get triggered and spend more time using the keyboard for blabbering in chat than using their ship. As if they were any more useful than the AFK player. 

 

My Iowa has the same WR problem as yours. I admit I was absolutely crap in my first few battles (I suffered from NC Syndrome) but I eventually got used to the Mark 7s and now successfully dealing hits on DDs and cruisers.(Primary targets being a USN BB.)

 

I just want to conclude by saying that there is a limit as to how much one can do for his/her team.  

Unfortunately there is no mechanic yet that allows you to control your useless teammate's ship while he is busy arguing in chat.

Not that i really care all too much for the BBs , but i suffer from NCitis too on my Iowa...which makes me even less interested in playing a class i'm not really interested to start with....how did you improved out of that bad illness? :D

 

And yes, ofcourse you can't carry them all. Otherwise there would be players with 100% win rate, which is not the case. It is also true that sometimes you CAN make a huge difference. Now my personal goal is to increase as much as possible those times.

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1 hour ago, jako737 said:

...how did you improved out of that bad illness? 

I kept playing Iowa for at least 7 consecutive games. Helped a lot. Of course, forums and community contributors helped in rethinking certain tactics which differ from NC.

1 hour ago, jako737 said:

Now my personal goal is to increase as much as possible

The best way to do your best is to forget about personal statistics (which includes WR and everything of that sort) and play your ship the right way. Also, keep in mind that doing extra damage doesn't always make anyone "extra useful", which I think you are aware about.

Recently started grinding podvoisky and had a match with 20k damage but ended up on top. It was a loss despite me solo capping 2 bases and defending them for as long as I could last against 2 CLs. You see, I did what I possibly could in that cr*pboat in a T7 match. This is one such battle where you try whatever it takes but your team fails to keep up for whatever reason. Just tell yourself in such situations that it's just another cloudy day and always hope for a bright sunny day for your next battle. (Hope you get the context:Smile-_tongue:)

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