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Jurgeni_ME

Match Making should consider Radar.

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Seriously,  as if being being bottom tier 8 n a tier 10 match wasn't enough i'm constantly having to deal with cases where my team has no radar ships whatsoever while the enemy has 3 +, being mainly a DD captain this is really ruining the game to the point where it just isn't fun anymore, i can see why the current meta is just Battleships sniping from spawn.
They should really adjust the MM so it takes into account the number of radar ships for each team.shot-18_04.05_22_10.17-0608.thumb.jpg.f23e3ada5d0cffff2c042267d60a4edc.jpgshot-18_04.03_11_57.51-0561.thumb.jpg.248ca5442909379f9f09486ae3c246ab.jpgshot-18_04.02_12_41.34-0698.thumb.jpg.c9db255e1406fd8b206bf0b82842ae72.jpg

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Beta Tester
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Indeed!

 

MM should always put all radar ships in one team, and none in the other! This will ensure a healthy competition!

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Quality Poster
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True, but I doubt it'll happen, simply because if you start balancing it by ships that can mount either radar or a different consumable it'll give one team a significant advantage over the other.

 

E.g. Your team has two Des Moines (no other radar ships) and the enemy team has one Minotaur and a HsienYang as the only radar capable ships. If radar consumable is taken into MM, then you immediately know that the Mino and the HsienYang have radar, because they balance out your two DMs.

 

 

 

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Just go OP through topics started during previous Ranked seasons.

It's been talked over countless times. Lost hope if you ask me.

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10 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

True, but I doubt it'll happen, simply because if you start balancing it by ships that can mount either radar or a different consumable it'll give one team a significant advantage over the other.

 

E.g. Your team has two Des Moines (no other radar ships) and the enemy team has one Minotaur and a HsienYang as the only radar capable ships. If radar consumable is taken into MM, then you immediately know that the Mino and the HsienYang have radar, because they balance out your two DMs.

Well, it would probably be the same +/- 1 as for everything else (a.k.a. 2 radars can meet 1 / 2 / 3 radars) - and one of these DesMemes could be running the spotting aircraft :Smile_trollface:

 


 

But yeah, I do agree that radars should be balanced. So fun to see that your team has 1 DD less from the start and enemies have all 4 radars of that match :fish_panic: Definitely can't tell the outcome of that one just by looking at it, definitely won't be the case of one team having absolute cap and spotting control while your DDs are fighting for their life while being unable to do absolutely anything

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[ONE2]
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Hmm yeah @wilkatis_LV, @PapVogeleI think WG may actually not be able to balance radars at all. This is because radar is considered a CONSUMABLE and not a separate ship class as such. So therefore, they may not be able to tell, whether or not a certain ship / player has actually mounted a radar in any given game instead of something else or not. There fore balancing them out through MM would be impossible... Yeah, I admit it, they might have f*ucked that up good right there. DOH!:Smile_amazed:

doh.jpg.3c7541773bef92e6f48a61a1c5a5230a.jpg

methinks the only way to somewhat remedy this situation is to alter the way radar works (no more being able to see through islands, reduced range etc) or to make some optional counter-measure consumables available. Somebody suggested chaff, though I'm not yet sure how that would work, maybe if the ship has a plane (scout or fighter) but for DD, not so sure what can be done other than just nerfing radar itself or limiting it to just a few ships, which would otherwise remain weak (therefore making them rare due to being unåpopular). But neither of these "solutions" seems ideal.:cap_hmm:

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2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Well, it would probably be the same +/- 1 as for everything else (a.k.a. 2 radars can meet 1 / 2 / 3 radars) - and one of these DesMemes could be running the spotting aircraft :Smile_trollface:

 


 

But yeah, I do agree that radars should be balanced. So fun to see that your team has 1 DD less from the start and enemies have all 4 radars of that match :fish_panic: Definitely can't tell the outcome of that one just by looking at it, definitely won't be the case of one team having absolute cap and spotting control while your DDs are fighting for their life while being unable to do absolutely anything

Actually had a game this morning where my team had 1 less DD and the enemy team had 3 Radars to our 0.

5 minutes into the game, the enemy had lost 3 out of 4 DDs, we had lost 1, and we held 2 caps to their 1.

We won that game, due to their radar ships not being utilized and their DDs suiciding for some odd reason. But I really do wish they'd try to balance out radars on each team, it has such a huge impact on how a game develops..

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48 minutes ago, PapVogele said:

ctually had a game this morning where my team had 1 less DD and the enemy team had 3 Radars to our 0.

5 minutes into the game, the enemy had lost 3 out of 4 DDs, we had lost 1, and we held 2 caps to their 1.

An exception happened so that totally disproves the other 99 cases out of a 100. I'm assuming that's your logic there? Good one :cap_like:

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[X_MAS]
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If it's for that i also had a match in which the enemy had 7 combined radars to our 2. We won, but that is because it was Okinawa and that map takes all the worst from players.

 

However, it should NOT be the case. We all go around screaming about balance of ships and so forth and then those situation come where it all goes hippie.

The same as having 4 matches in a row where you have 1 less dd.

 

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14 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

True, but I doubt it'll happen, simply because if you start balancing it by ships that can mount either radar or a different consumable it'll give one team a significant advantage over the other.

 

E.g. Your team has two Des Moines (no other radar ships) and the enemy team has one Minotaur and a HsienYang as the only radar capable ships. If radar consumable is taken into MM, then you immediately know that the Mino and the HsienYang have radar, because they balance out your two DMs.

 

 

 

 

Doesn't even have to be that precise.

 

WG could simply assume that ships that typically mount radar (i.e.: tier VIII+ US and RU cruisers, plus all the premium ships with access to radar) do so.

Ships like the RN CLs and the PA DDs as a rule of thumb don't run radar since they have to give up smoke for it, so WG could reasonable assume that such ships don't use radar.

 

Then when the MM draws its ships from the pool, it attempts to distribute radar ships equally on both teams.

That by itself would at least be enough to get rid of hilariously lopsided radar distributions where one team gets no radar and the other gets ALL of the radar.

 

 

Anyone who wants to play a different build can do so. Someone wants to play the Memetaur with radar instead of smoke? Okay, one team gets an additional radar. Someone watched atsf and wants to play Des Memes with spotter plane instead? Still gets counted as radar ship by MM, so one less radar for that team. Technically that could still lead to MM where one team gets 2 radar and the other gets none (say Memetaur and regular radar ship on one side and the Des Memes that was drawn as radar ship for the other team goes spotter plane or whatever). Can happen, will happen, but it's still better than seeing MM like posted in the OP where one team gets 5 radar ships and the other 0. Had the same kind of BS MM myself multiple times and it's never fun to play (for both sides, even the winning team tends to get meh games since such a game tends to end very fast and very decisively with little opportunity to get big rewards).

 

 

But as long as the MM has sufficient radar ships to draw from its pool, the chances for massive radar ship disparities per team are going to decrease SIGNIFICANTLY even by a flawed system. Still better than no system if you ask me.

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[ONE2]
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Yyeeah @Aotearas theoretically that would work, of course. However, I do think that MM, as it is now has only been programmed to consider ship classes and match them and nothing else. So basically it does not track (nor is it able to do so) players, consumables or various ship Nationalities (RN, US, IJN and so on) at all. Merely, whether or not the ship belongs to category BB, Cruiser, DD or CV and that's it. So in order to be able to do that, WG would be obliged to develop a whole new engine for the MM all together. Fairly convinced they will not agree do that voluntarily no matter what.:etc_swear:

 

The only way I see of them being able and/or even willing to do something of a sort, is if the was a separate ship class for it, which would then be a simple(er) matter to code.:cap_old:

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9 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Yyeeah @Aotearas theoretically that would work, of course. However, I do think that MM, as it is now has only been programmed to consider ship classes and match them and nothing else. So basically it does not track (nor is it able to do so) players, consumables or various ship Nationalities (RN, US, IJN and so on) at all.

 

Iirc MM does take ship nationalities into account since some time. Or at the very least I distinctly remember WG talking a lot about that.

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Biggest problem IMO is Missouri.

 

Radar cruisers are balanced against non-radar ones by being weaker in other areas and can be countered by DD simply by spotting, but what exactly is Missouri balanced against?  It is to all intents and purposes identical to Iowa but gets a radar consumable as well - broken.

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14 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Iirc MM does take ship nationalities into account since some time. Or at the very least I distinctly remember WG talking a lot about that.

Hmmm.... :cap_hmm: Purrhaps, purrhaps...

 

Now that I come to think of it. It seems that quite often, when I am doing my Mogami training there tends to be another one in the enemy team too. Not always though so I am not sure how far that feature goes and is it flexible enough to be used in this way. It might be that for example ALL Russian Cruiser in all tiers would then be classified, as radar ships or some such odd thingy and this could lead to situations where each team would be limited to a combined maximum only 2 US or RU Cruisers or any premium ships per battle (computers are stupid, after all so this would seem likely). In any case it is obvious that WG has in no way considered how radar would affect the game, nor does it have any idea (at the moment) on how to balance it out. methinks that easiest way would be to change the way radar works in that it simply would no longer be a "ground penetrating radar" so basically a plucky DD could just wait it out behind an opportune island and proceed. Of course, those caught in the open would still be screwed, but that is to be expected I guess.:Smile_Default:

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