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wot_chikor

about CVs and AA / Midway nerf

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Hi guys , another CV topic from me :)

so , in the past i started a topic about whats know as ' cancer divisions ' of CVs and AA ships , and i have been meeting alot of them lately an i am kinda sick of it . but what changed from my last topic is that i think i have found a dolution for the problem .

first of all , i think the problem is not the AA itself , the AA doesnt matter even if its high , but the toxic cancerous thing is the AA RANGE . in general .

in perticulare , the Minotaur AA range , its so high to the point that it make it absurde , imagine a ship with AA range almost equal at its detectably range , meaning to spot the minotaur your fighers HAVE to be in his range , witch is 2 / 3 fighters lost all the time , giving the enemy CV huge advantage , so pls WG nerf that , it makes meeting a CV division a nightmare . 

also the dds with defensive AA that spotting them cost you the full wave of fiighters , giving again andother Huge advantage to enemy CV . so pls nerf that and give the AA dds the ability to just panic the planes ( exactly like the carrier  defensive AA ) 

last about the Midway nerf . i think its a step in the right direction even tho i am a cv main and i got midway last week and i enjoy it . but pls if you do reduce the hanger 40 planes , consider buff the tier of the TBs , because if you dont , the midway will be unplayble .

and tell me what you think of my feedback guys . thanks 

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Here's a solution:

Don't spot with fighters. They're too valuable to be wasted on something that can actually kill them quickly.

 

While I do believe Mino AA range is a bit over the top (it's higher than the actual detectability of aircraft), I don't particularly mind that their air detection range equals their AA range. RN CLs live and die by their concealment, they have plenty of downsides to compensate. If you could keep them spotted without any penalty that'd be a death sentence for them the moment their smoke runs out.

DFAA in general is an archaic mechanic that needs reworking anyway, made to counter aircraft that are no longer in the game.

 

Also CV DFAA doesn't only panic, it's the very old version of DFAA that buffs only the mid-range guns. (25% for USN CVs, 75% for IJN ones. Don't ask me why IJN DFAA is so much more powerful.)

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Here's a solution:

Don't spot with fighters. They're too valuable to be wasted on something that can actually kill them quickly.

 

While I do believe Mino AA range is a bit over the top (it's higher than the actual detectability of aircraft), I don't particularly mind that their air detection range equals their AA range. RN CLs live and die by their concealment, they have plenty of downsides to compensate. If you could keep them spotted without any penalty that'd be a death sentence for them the moment their smoke runs out.

 

well you dont have problem with mino AA being very long range because you dont have  have to deal with it in the first place ..... 

 

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Just now, wot_chikor said:

well you dont have problem with mino AA being very long range because you dont have  have to deal with it in the first place ..... 

 

Are you joking?

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Are you joking?

well ,,, or you abusing it ,,, in your CV + AA ships division .

other then that , pls dont tell me its fine .

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4 minutes ago, wot_chikor said:

other then that , pls dont tell me its fine

 

So basically "I'm right, you're wrong, go :etc_swear: yourself!"

None of the people I play with even have a Minotaur. My CV stats actually improve when you filter for solo stats. I'm primarily a solo player and I'm saying Mino could maybe use a very slight AA range nerf but is otherwise fine. If you're not interested in discourse just say so in your opening post instead of asking for opinions.

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8 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

well you dont have problem with mino AA being very long range because you dont have  have to deal with it in the first place ..... 

 

Yeah, one of those few guys who are known to play CVs A LOT doesn't have to deal with it :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Obviously :Smile_trollface:

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9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Are you joking?

You obviously know nothing of the struggles of true CV players. I mean, your stats clearly show that you only ever face Yamatos with no AA skills. WG created a special matchmaking just for you. This hypothesis is further supported by the fact that

9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

My CV stats actually improve when you filter for solo stats.

There!

Busted once and for all! :Smile_teethhappy:

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the guy is a petty noob,  just ignore him ,  that is becoming major problem that is actually  increasing the  skill gap , you got a average player and a wall of 2 aa cancer cruisers that cover whole map left to right.

superunicum cant win that , with random team at his side.

then they come to forum to share their ""wisdom"" and brag.....

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11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

While I do believe Mino AA range is a bit over the top (it's higher than the actual detectability of aircraft) (...)

All true, but Minotaur cannot equip DF consumable and its 76mm are kind of fragile...

 

 

10 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

well ,,, or you abusing it ,,, in your CV + AA ships division .

All cruisers at Tier X (except maybe HIV) have extremely high AA. Even Zao is going to shred your planes more effectiveley then Minotaur once it activates DF. Not sure how can you 'abuse' MM by divisioning with 'AA' ships, since all of them are 'AA' ships...

It's not like he plays his Saipan with Atlanta and Gneisenau or Sims...

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10 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

well ,,, or you abusing it ,,, in your CV + AA ships division .

other then that , pls dont tell me its fine .

minotaur is a good example with manual aa fire control , if you want to see your planes melt  in seconds just watch those games, usually they smoke so you dont have a clue whats going on, because you cant even spot them with  your planes before they spot  you... and were talking seconds here actually no time to react and your squad is gone.

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But most of the Minotaurs AA effectiveness is in the medium range bracket, not the long range, so even speccing it fully AA, it won't 'massacre' planes unless the planes close to well within the ships spotted distance. As mentioned, yes ships like that can close some airspace, but not all the airspace, and in randoms, having a full AAA front is.... rare, to say the least.

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if you spot mino just turn way. Let your tem shoot. Most of those shelss will be cits. If he smokes you know where it is. Just leave him there. At the moment its like "i am hovering over aa cruiser and he kils my fighters". Solution? Dont do it.

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 thank god then there are not any islands on map  to hide ,and your random team  focuses on AA cancer cruisers ,who usually are not very very careful at all, and dont survive until the end of the game,  :fish_palm:....

add to that random team gets  close into enemy aa  parameter and scream for aa support while they are bombed to bits, yet you cant help them at all. 

 

lets be realistic here and not some  imaginary reality bending  ......

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4 hours ago, philjd said:

But most of the Minotaurs AA effectiveness is in the medium range bracket, not the long range, so even speccing it fully AA, it won't 'massacre' planes unless the planes close to well within the ships spotted distance. As mentioned, yes ships like that can close some airspace, but not all the airspace, and in randoms, having a full AAA front is.... rare, to say the least.

thats wrong buddy , thats wrong .

read my topic again and you will see why the long range AA  is the problem not the mid one ...

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4 hours ago, Oderisson said:

if you spot mino just turn way. Let your tem shoot. Most of those shelss will be cits. If he smokes you know where it is. Just leave him there. At the moment its like "i am hovering over aa cruiser and he kils my fighters". Solution? Dont do it.

yay you win the internet sir . such wisdome and constructive ideas ...

pls dont teach me how to play CVs now or how to spot with CVs or how to control my planes .... 

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4 minutes ago, wot_chikor said:

thats wrong buddy , thats wrong .

read my topic again and you will see why the long range AA  is the problem not the mid one ...

I did read it - the long range is only a problem if the fighters sit in it - and being at the extreme edge of the Minotaurs range, stumbling into it by accident if the Mino' was unspotted, should not be fatal if the CV driver is attentive and moves them out of the range. Personally, I leave the AA off in my Mino' initially, until detected by the planes then switch it on for maximum impact. I don't have manual AA yet on her captain, but that has no impact on her longest range AA abilities. Obviously the 1.3 multiplier if focused has an impact.

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2 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

yay you win the internet sir . such wisdome and constructive ideas ...

pls dont teach me how to play CVs now or how to spot with CVs or how to control my planes .... 

Isnt this the reason you got here in the first place?

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8 hours ago, Skyllon said:

All true, but Minotaur cannot equip DF consumable and its 76mm are kind of fragile

 

Well, not that it needs DFAA considering base AA already surpasses the value of most cruisers with DFAA active.

A very slight nerf to DP gun AA range would hardly impair the Minotaur. Like from 8,6km max range down to 8,2km maybe.

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

A very slight nerf to DP gun AA range would hardly impair the Minotaur. Like from 8,6km max range down to 8,2km maybe.

The problem is that fundamentally, WG has given up on balancing AA around reasonable AA values. They give certain ships the AA values that would rip apart any carrier's planes and then make AA so incredibly fragile that even moderate HE damage would rip the AA off ships in a number of salvos that could be counted on one hand. This just ends up with circumstances where full AA cruisers could get dropped by a carrier two tiers below her but another ship can wipe out the entire air wing of a carrier two tiers above her. The Minotaur's technical AA value really isn't that exceptional but the simple fact that her long ranged AA guns are immune to AA destruction under normal circumstances means that she is the most formidable AA ships in the entire game, so much more so than the Des Moines assuming DM has no defensive AA. The Minotaur is simply better than most ships at illustrating the broken nature of the game.

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5 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

pls dont teach me how to play CVs now or how to spot with CVs or how to control my planes .... 

Yeah, because you already are doing so "great" in them, aren't you?

 

Vi5Nfhe.png

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Yeah, because you already are doing so "great" in them, aren't you?

 

Vi5Nfhe.png

Actually, he has blue stats on Hakuryuu (his most played CV and incidentally a t10) over a pretty large amount of battles - isn't that literally meant to mean "great" by WoWs Stats & Numbers terminology? :Smile-_tongue:

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5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Well, not that it needs DFAA considering base AA already surpasses the value of most cruisers with DFAA active.

True, if you take into account long range AA only. But Hindenburg and Des Moines will still deliver bigger punch, and those 2 constitute 50% of all cruisers played. Minotaur is nasty, but odds are like 1 in 5 to come across one.

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18 hours ago, dasCKD said:

The problem is that fundamentally, WG has given up on balancing AA around reasonable AA values. They give certain ships the AA values that would rip apart any carrier's planes and then make AA so incredibly fragile that even moderate HE damage would rip the AA off ships in a number of salvos that could be counted on one hand. This just ends up with circumstances where full AA cruisers could get dropped by a carrier two tiers below her but another ship can wipe out the entire air wing of a carrier two tiers above her. The Minotaur's technical AA value really isn't that exceptional but the simple fact that her long ranged AA guns are immune to AA destruction under normal circumstances means that she is the most formidable AA ships in the entire game, so much more so than the Des Moines assuming DM has no defensive AA. The Minotaur is simply better than most ships at illustrating the broken nature of the game.

i totally agree with you , i am not afraid of des moins AA he can open iti just have to pull my planes away for 40s , especialyinn i amin hakuryu where the planes are very tanky they dont die fast . but with minotaur its another story , its so fast that it feels you are dropping  a DD and the long range AA start killing planes at 8.6km ....  and the sad part its being abused to ruin random games .

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13 hours ago, Skyllon said:

True, if you take into account long range AA only. But Hindenburg and Des Moines will still deliver bigger punch, and those 2 constitute 50% of all cruisers played. Minotaur is nasty, but odds are like 1 in 5 to come across one.

as  CV main , i dont fear D or Hinden AA as i fear minotaur's . and i gave the reasons .

and if you read my tpic again you would understand that i dont complain about ranom minotaurs but minotaurs in divisions with full AA specs that can shoot down my fighters from very long range giving the enemy CV huge advantage and ruining the game for me and for any lone CV player . 

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