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ForceM1782

How on earth did i not get this kill? =)

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So basically i wanted to have a fast daily win on my Isokaze before having to stop gaming, and played a Coop match.

 

I encountered a bot Wickes near a cap and launch a volley of torps. I get 4 torpedo hits, and... don't kill the DD.

My torps should do over 10k damage per pop minus whatever reduction a Wickes has (so basically minus nothing)

 

I died in the situation too (i was baffled that the ship didn't die...:cap_wander_2:), but i saw the ship go on for a few seconds after i exploded, before he got hit and killed by our Kuma.

 

So look at the attached Screenshot from after the match, where you can see:

- I did indeed hit with 4 torps, doing 5791 damage (only???)

- I caused 4 Floodings that got instantly repaired and did not ever tick.

- You can also see above i did not get the kill.

- Our Kuma got the kill from its main battery.

 

So, what happened?

 

To my understanding, what should have happened in this situation would be that i get only one, maybe two torpedo hits registered that then kill him outright for his remaining HP, correct? That's what usually happens in that situation.

shot-18_04.05_01_28.26-0707.thumb.jpg.3b2def9da00028b9cac5b80b7904d48b.jpg

 

I would have reported this as a bug, but i am not sure if it is one, maybe i overlook something here, a simple explanation that you can give me why this happened.

Feel free to give me your ideas and discuss. Note that i am not salty about this or complaining, i would just like to know what happened, so please stay civilized xd.

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npdZWKV.gif

 

It's called damage saturation. Every section of a ship has a certain amount of HP, if it becomes completely depleted that section will no longer take damage.

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It’s possible damage saturation made some of your torp useless.

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8 minutes ago, P2Win said:

It’s possible damage saturation made some of your torp useless.

Okay i thought about this too, but a salvo of over 40k damage reduced to less than 6k?

 

Edit: And on second thought it does not explain why my first torp hit did not kill the Wickes. It has only 8100 HP.

 

I hit it with main Battery before, but can that have saturated the exact same areathat the torps hit afterwards (meaning shooting him beforehand saved his butt) That’s pretty hilarious...

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4 hours ago, ForceM1782 said:

Okay i thought about this too, but a salvo of over 40k damage reduced to less than 6k?

 

Edit: And on second thought it does not explain why my first torp hit did not kill the Wickes. It has only 8100 HP.

 

I hit it with main Battery before, but can that have saturated the exact same areathat the torps hit afterwards (meaning shooting him beforehand saved his butt) That’s pretty hilarious...

Imagine a ship as three little ships glued together. Let's say that they have

5k hp the ship named Bow

10k hp the ship named Midships

5k hp the ship named Stern

(numbers not accurate, these are just examples to show an important point)

The ship as a whole has 8k hp

 

Now kill the entire ship, you need to deal 8k damage to any combination of the three. You have a Big Bad Torp that deals 23 trillions damage - if it hits the midships, it can sink your target in one go, yes. But if it hits the Bow? Bow has only 5k hp - and that's as much as getting hit there can shave off the ship's total hp. Your first torpedo literally blew the stern or bow of the enemy - at least as long as the damage model is concerned. This is, in fact, very common for full DDs eating high-yield torps (unless they eat them midships) - there is just not enough hp in the extremity section (bow or stern) to get the ship sunk.

 

Now, one additional (strange) thing is that there are two ways to still hit the hp pool of a ship by hitting a damage saturated section:

1. Damage over time just straight drains the hp pool. Even if it's a fire on the bow of the ship or flooding caused by torp hit on the bow, it will deal damage normally even if the section is completely saturated.

2. Overpens, for some reason, alawys deal damage. This can get silly, because if you penetrate with AP (the shell blows up inside the hull), damage saturation can stop the damage entirely. If, on the other hand, the shell fails to detonate and goes clean through, leaving two small holes? The target still suffers the standard 10% of shell's potential citadel damage.

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2 hours ago, eliastion said:

Imagine a ship as three little ships glued together. Let's say that they have

5k hp the ship named Bow

10k hp the ship named Midships

5k hp the ship named Stern

(numbers not accurate, these are just examples to show an important point)

The ship as a whole has 8k hp

 

Now kill the entire ship, you need to deal 8k damage to any combination of the three. You have a Big Bad Torp that deals 23 trillions damage - if it hits the midships, it can sink your target in one go, yes. But if it hits the Bow? Bow has only 5k hp - and that's as much as getting hit there can shave off the ship's total hp. Your first torpedo literally blew the stern or bow of the enemy - at least as long as the damage model is concerned. This is, in fact, very common for full DDs eating high-yield torps (unless they eat them midships) - there is just not enough hp in the extremity section (bow or stern) to get the ship sunk.

 

Now, one additional (strange) thing is that there are two ways to still hit the hp pool of a ship by hitting a damage saturated section:

1. Damage over time just straight drains the hp pool. Even if it's a fire on the bow of the ship or flooding caused by torp hit on the bow, it will deal damage normally even if the section is completely saturated.

2. Overpens, for some reason, alawys deal damage. This can get silly, because if you penetrate with AP (the shell blows up inside the hull), damage saturation can stop the damage entirely. If, on the other hand, the shell fails to detonate and goes clean through, leaving two small holes? The target still suffers the standard 10% of shell's potential citadel damage.

Okay, thank you, that’s a more detailed explanation than i knew until now, but it explains it.

 

I did not know until now that you can not kill a ship by just hitting bow or stern (except overpens and fires/floodings).

 

It’s a pretty silly mechanic if you ask me, as most ships would surely sink if you hit bow or stern repeatedly with torps (unless it had some really serious waterproof bulkhead compartments that also never get damaged by torps even if you blow the whole stern off)

 

I mean, asking for realism is not even something i would consider the most important thing in an arcady game like this, but hitting a ship with a torp and doing 0 damage is kinda weird as a game mechanic imho.

 

But anyway, many thanks for the explanations, its much appreciated and helps me understamd the game better!

 

 

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Had the same pleasure in cw once. 

 

Hit a shima that had taken a torp by our other dd before. Did less than 6k damage. Lost about two teeth while biting my tongue. 

 

What is worse though if rng says "not today". I am still bitter about that one time my shims torp did 22.300 damage to the enemy gearing 3 minutes into the game. Guess who won the game for his team? Ain't me. 

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13 minutes ago, ForceM1782 said:

It’s a pretty silly mechanic if you ask me, as most ships would surely sink if you hit bow or stern repeatedly with torps

Damage saturation IRL:

 

5Big06X.jpg

a76f2c5ccfa2bf5fa3fb99123ca5e194.jpg

USS_Minneapolis_after_Tassafaronga.jpg

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Wasn't that supposed to be fixed at some point? so that torpedoes always do some damage even in full saturated parts, meaning that 0 dmg torps not possible.

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Personally I believe the damage saturation effect should be capped for everything at, say 10% - so even fully saturated areas generate SOME damage.

Ships most affected (probably DDs) could receive some hp buffs to compensate - the current situation is just too ridiculous in some circumstances.

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22 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Damage saturation IRL:

 

5Big06X.jpg

a76f2c5ccfa2bf5fa3fb99123ca5e194.jpg

USS_Minneapolis_after_Tassafaronga.jpg

If i can blow the bow completely off a ship in WoWs, so i see i can’t possibly do any damage to this part anymore, i will have no more complaints. :cap_like:

 

But on a more serious note, these ships maybe did not sink, but i guess they were out of action at least

so concerning a WoWs battle i would say  they are destroyed

The USS Pittsburgh seems to have been still somewhat seaworthy without a bow, but exceptions confirm the rule i guess.

 

BTW what is the last ship from the pictures?

 

21 hours ago, eliastion said:

Personally I believe the damage saturation effect should be capped for everything at, say 10% - so even fully saturated areas generate SOME damage.

Ships most affected (probably DDs) could receive some hp buffs to compensate - the current situation is just too ridiculous in some circumstances.

Aye i would agree with that. But that could actually be what happened.

I do my gun damage, plus some 2,7k with the first torp, saturating the bow. Then the further 3 torps do 1k per hit approx. Leaving the ship on a sliver of health.

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6 minutes ago, ForceM1782 said:

BTW what is the last ship from the pictures?

USS Minneapolis, a New Orleans class CA :cap_like:Took that hit at the battle of Tassafaronga on 30th November 1942. Here's New Orleans herself after that battle, also took torpedo to the bow:

 

NewOrleansTulagiBowMissing.jpg

 

As for

11 minutes ago, ForceM1782 said:

But on a more serious note, these ships maybe did not sink, but i guess they were out of action at least

I'm pretty sure that at least stern batteries, if not even bow ones, still remained in action. I'm assuming they'd be pulled away from fighting due to damage sustained, but just in case they needed it - they could still fire back.

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USS_Minneapolis_after_Tassafaronga.jpg&k

NewOrleansTulagiBowMissing.jpg&key=921f0

Okay, where is the superposed second turret from the 1st picture? Can’t make it out on the second one.

 

Looks like the japanese helped them improve their firing angles a bit :cap_happy: No bow in the way anymore...

 

 

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