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T0byJug

Asashio.. Please shelve

Asashio Shelve her  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. Shelve the Asashio. She is just Broken as she is.

  2. 2. I'm an Experienced DD player with over 1000 games in DD and DDs of higher tiers( tier 8+). and said Yes to shelving this ship. Interested to see how many DD players dont like this ship

    • Yes i have high tier DDs and have played 1000+ games in DDs(of any tier), I have played multiple DD tech lines to tier 8+ and believe this DD should be shelved.
    • Yes i have high tier DDs and have played 1000+ games in DDs(of any tier), I have played multiple DD tech lines to tier 8+ and believe this DD should be released as she is.
    • I am not and an experienced DD player

233 comments in this topic

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Relative newbie view: it's broke.

 

From my perspective, it's going to be wildly situational; it can't hit either of the classic DD hunter classes with torps, and lacks the guns to make up for that. Even with that stealth, most games for the average farty will end up with you getting obliterated. Now and again, though, the opposition will be daft enough to let you get into a decent firing position, and the results will be glorious.

 

The trouble is, you'll be tempted to try and engineer those glorious situations, at the expense of doing 'proper' DD work.

 

All that said, I might be tempted to get one, just for some occasional variety; I doubt it'll get played that much though - I would feel too guilty, and it would distract from my current project of trying to learn to suck marginally less in proper DDs.

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I don't mind seeing what this ship does to the game. I doubt it will wreck it. Considering the number of games that end in 3-5 bbs vs 3-5 bbs, all rest dead, it might even be a good addition to decimate the bbs more effectively. I'm not sure about this dd, but I won't join the mass hysteria that often affects the community when WG tries something new. I still think deep water torps is a reasonably good addition to the game so far.

 

 

@T0byJug The poll seems a bit broken though. I have to vote yes 'shelve the dd' on first option to be able to vote 'it should be released as it is' on the second option...? :cap_book:

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15 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Well two ships of Hatsuharu class were finished before all class was reworked to form which we have in the game, Hatsuharu and Nenohi. So if you want Hatsuharu in its origin design you could add Nenohi, no need to choose some random ship from a class. Hatsu (Origin) could work at T7 but it should have worse concealment than Akatsuki as it has bigger bridge than Fubuki/Akatsuki class.

 

I'd buy Nenohi (3 front guns) at tier 6 or 7 and a tier 8 Fubuki with 3x3 torps (any) and 3x2 guns.

 

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i will not buy it - and i love sailing DDs

 

ist not my Kind of DD gameplay to sailing around and looking for a good firingsolution to launch my torps ONLY at BBs (ok CVs too....)

 

perhaps it would end like with my Kidd - most times i sail Kidd , no CV in battel

Than, this DD , than very few BBs in Battle. And the other ships in front of the enemie BBs will always spot the torps early....

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1 hour ago, VC381 said:

Asashio to me really feels like what I want an IJN DD to be.

So, completely overpowered VS one class in the game, while being completely incapable of competing with any other class?

Sounds balanced.:cap_book:

 

Asashio in her current form is nothing more than a writhing, purple-glowing toxin that WG has injected straight into the veins of World of Warships.

Rather than consider that the IJN DDs do not have a readily-available captain trainer for purchase right now (Kami/R/Fujin are permanently removed from sale, Shinonome is locked behind a mission marathon that requires T8-10 ships and Harekaze is unlikely to appeal to non-anime fans) and rather than actually address the problems with BBs directly (with some direct nerfs, rather than indirect nerfs that also affect other ship classes), they have released a completely unbalanced and unfun ship under the pretense of wanting something """""SPESHUL"""""".

This one ship alone is seriously making me question whether or not I should just quit. I really don't want to, not when we're on the verge of some new light cruisers and (supposedly) RN DDs coming out after, but releasing this ship in this state is one massive boneheaded move I simply can't shrug off.

 

Oh, @T0byJug, I've played the IJN Torpboat DDs to Shimakaze and I've played the RN cruisers (still DDs to some) to Minotaur, I also have Akizuki in my port and am currently grinding Benson, I assume this makes me qualified to answer as 'experienced'?:Smile_teethhappy:

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3 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Harekaze is unlikely to appeal to non-anime fans

As I'm sure you know, you can stick the 'historical' camo on it, and it looks pretty much like any other IJN DD (if you don't look too closely); that's what I did on mine.

If WG emphasised this aspect a bit more, even the anti-anime crowd might be tempted?

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@Verblonde true, however in 'non-anime fans' I am including those who prefer historical ships. Firstly, Harekaze never existed, it's a purely fictional member of the Kagerou class; secondly the Kagerou class were never fitted with the 10cm-long-barrel-guns belonging to the Akizuki class; and finally the Kagerou class would have never been able to mount the US 127mm guns.

As such, she is pure fiction and unlikely to appeal to those who don't enjoy anime and especially those who prefer historical ships.:Smile_Default:

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1 hour ago, VC381 said:

@T0byJug I'm not with you on this one and since you asked I'll actually explain why I voted not to scrap it.

 

1) I actually think this is a really interesting implementation for an IJN DD, that actually properly captures the spirit of IJN battle doctrine of using torpedoes to counter larger ships. These ships have been tough to balance around powerful torpedoes and currently main tree IJN DDs are lacklustre and vanilla because otherwise they would be OP. Asashio to me really feels like what I want an IJN DD to be.

 

2) Bad players will always play badly, Asashio no more encourages noobs to backline than Kidd encourages them to YOLO and die for nothing. You can't blame the ship for bad play. Which brings me to...

 

3) Good players, even not great ones, can and will scout and contest caps effectively in this. It still has joint best concealment in its entire tier spread and the guns are nothing to sneeze at. Im not an "experienced" DD player by your lofty standards but I have enough Benson and Fletcher games under my belt to know being permaspotted or kited by a Kagero/Yugumo is NOT fun and not easy to countet. Torpedoes don't even come into it in these fights. Asashio can easily do the same.

 

4) I am of the opinion that variety trumps balance especially in random battles. Anything can happen so why not let people have fun in their own way and give them unique ships to play how they like? As I said potatoes will potato in anything, and good players will carry in anything. Asashio is a very interesting addition to the game.

 

5) BB meta effects could be good. As a mainly cruiser player I don't actually have a huge problem with BBs being forced to be cautious or staying back a little. It also actually makes more thematic sense. What squeezes cruisers out of the game in my opinion is BBs being able to be too aggressive with impunity. It's hypocritical of people to complain BBs get all the cruiser toys and can now fight DDs and solo push caps without support due to concealment/HE/hydro/radar/secondaries or whatever... then also complain when something stops them doing exactly that! It's not punishing the "wrong" BBs, it's creating a safe space for cruisers. Personally, if there was an Asashio on my team making the enemy BBs hold back that's a cue for me to put my cruiser in harms way for him to support his capping efforts. Teamplay oriented ship that's good for cruiser gameplay, I approve!

 

P.S. yes I will be buying one :Smile-_tongue:

Thanks for the reply mate... 

1, Personally I don't think IJN DDs are in a terrible place they could use some love but they are Good DD's. There main issue is the tier 5/6 and 8 Premium IJN DDs are just better. I feel these super stealthy Torps are just to fast and stealthy with a high damage. Compare to the Hsienyang the torpedoes are much faster and do much more damage. making theme harder to avoid and more dangerous 

2, its about reaction time. when these torps are spotted by a DD its to late for him to do anything. at least with other torpedoes you have teh chance to mitigate the attack by taking Evasive.

3, The play against IJN DDs in a cap when perma spotted is to chase him down and gun him.. you have the advantage. But this is risky as the IJN has ok to good guns and torpedoes. The Asashio cant use torpedoes against a DD. This will discourage Asashio players to contest caps.

4, Variety/Gimmicks can be good but in this case i feel it kills the gameplay. Also Asashio has 20km very fast  torpedoes not 10 like the  Kagero.. If the Asashio had 10km Torps and or slower torps or stealthy torps that did the sort of damage the tier 8 pan Asian DDs do it would not be so AP. The Asashio has torpedoes are fast stealthy and high damage and long range. the only balance is they only harm BB/CV. This is not a balance. Its a silly gimmick.  This works ok in Pan Asion DDs as yes the torps cant harm DD but they are good gunboats for killing DD.

 

If the Asashio keep these fast high damage stealthy torps at tier 8 she should be forced to close the range and have 10km torps like other IJN tier 8 DD. IF she has torpedo reload boost she should have it at the cost of smoke.

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6 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

@Verblonde true, however in 'non-anime fans' I am including those who prefer historical ships. Firstly, Harekaze never existed, it's a purely fictional member of the Kagerou class; secondly the Kagerou class were never fitted with the 10cm-long-barrel-guns belonging to the Akizuki class; and finally the Kagerou class would have never been able to mount the US 127mm guns.

As such, she is pure fiction and unlikely to appeal to those who don't enjoy anime and especially those who prefer historical ships.:Smile_Default:

Harekaze by name never existed. But all the armaments she has did exist one the Kagaro Class DD Yukikaze. She had the USN 127mm guns. fitted in 1953 (though in open mounts) while serving in the Republic of China Navy under the name of Tan Yang

 

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Dont like the ship either. It's a giant noob trap and a cash grab. 

 

Thankfully I still have my t8 walrus clubber Kagero which does the job just as well if not better. 

 

Abbs no, 3 good games by super unica on YouTube don't make the ship viable. 

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i belive , we should not follow the way" what real existed or not" in this dicussion :cap_cool:

 

we would lose, lets say, 1/3 of the games ships :cap_haloween:

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32 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

@Verblonde true, however in 'non-anime fans' I am including those who prefer historical ships. Firstly, Harekaze never existed, it's a purely fictional member of the Kagerou class; secondly the Kagerou class were never fitted with the 10cm-long-barrel-guns belonging to the Akizuki class; and finally the Kagerou class would have never been able to mount the US 127mm guns.

As such, she is pure fiction and unlikely to appeal to those who don't enjoy anime and especially those who prefer historical ships.:Smile_Default:

That was mainly what I was referencing with the don't look too closely.

 

@T0byJug - thanks for pointing that out; I didn't know anyone else used any of the IJN ships after the war...

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7 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Thanks for the reply mate... 

1, Personally I don't think IJN DDs are in a terrible place they could use some love but they are Good DD's. There main issue is the tier 5/6 and 8 Premium IJN DDs are just better. I feel these super stealthy Torps are just to fast and stealthy with a high damage. Compare to the Hsienyang the torpedoes are much faster and do much more damage. making theme harder to avoid and more dangerous 

2, its about reaction time. when these torps are spotted by a DD its to late for him to do anything. at least with other torpedoes you have teh chance to mitigate the attack by taking Evasive.

3, The play against IJN DDs in a cap when perma spotted is to chase him down and gun him.. you have the advantage. But this is risky as the IJN has ok to good guns and torpedoes. The Asashio cant use torpedoes against a DD. This will discourage Asashio players to contest caps.

4, Variety/Gimmicks can be good but in this case i feel it kills the gameplay. Also Asashio has 20km very fast  torpedoes not 10 like the  Kagero.. If the Asashio had 10km Torps and or slower torps or stealthy torps that did the sort of damage the tier 8 pan Asian DDs do it would not be so AP. The Asashio has torpedoes are fast stealthy and high damage and long range. the only balance is they only harm BB/CV. This is not a balance. Its a silly gimmick.  This works ok in Pan Asion DDs as yes the torps cant harm DD but they are good gunboats for killing DD.

 

If the Asashio keep these fast high damage stealthy torps at tier 8 she should be forced to close the range and have 10km torps like other IJN tier 8 DD. IF she has torpedo reload boost she should have it at the cost of smoke.

1) I don't think the IJN DDs are in a bad place competitively but they don't stand out as torpedo boats as much as they used to, and as much as they should to really provide the flavour I expect from the historical reputation of these torpedoes. That's why I think this is interesting and why I want it.

 

2) I think reaction time isn't crucial when we're talking about long range torpedoes. Torpedoes are dodged before you see them. Most people turn randomly, hitting with any existing torps beyond about 7km is already a matter of luck or the enemy being dumb, and high tier ships are sluggish so reaction time generally isn't a saviour. In other words players will still need to get close-ish to make really good use of Asashio.

 

3) 1v1 yes (although if he's good at kiting you'll lose so much HP doing this it won't be worth it). But rushing is suicide if there's at least one guy awake on the enemy team to shoot at you. The IJN DD doesn't even have to use his weapons in that scenario. Torps and guns don't win cap battles, team support does.

 

4) but if it had different torps it wouldn't be as unique. What would be the point in basically having a PA DD in the IJN line? I'm OK with a bit of balance by min-maxing and specialising, it doesn't need to be amazing at everything. I want a ship that's really awesome at what I expect it to be awesome at and damn the rest. Anyway it's still a super stealthy DD with 6 hard-hitting guns, it won't be completely useless in more typical DD situations.

 

Thing is, half the forum seems to be complaining the ship is OP and the other that it will be useless. To be honest I think this will all blow over and be forgotten and a few people will enjoy their new toy while nothing really changes.

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The Asashio's torps should be able to hit all classes but keep the deep water torps detection range, then at least it wouldn't be a one trick pony.

#MakeIJNDDsGreatAgain

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24 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

The Asashio's torps should be able to hit all classes but keep the deep water torps detection range, then at least it wouldn't be a one trick pony.

#MakeIJNDDsGreatAgain

too bad WG doesn't have the ballz to do that..... I would even happily give up half the gun DPM and 5 km torp range for those kind of torpedos and some more alphadamage on the guns

#makeIJNDDSGreatAgain

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DD's are supposed to be BB counter. Giving them means to finally accomplish the role they were always supposed to do is not a bad thing. Everybody knows that BB's are dominating this game to a ridiculous extend.

 

The problem is giving deepwater torps to only specific ships. It makes no sense. Every destroyer should be able to equip them. Turning them into premium ship gimmick is idiotic.

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27 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

The Asashio's torps should be able to hit all classes but keep the deep water torps detection range, then at least it wouldn't be a one trick pony.

#MakeIJNDDsGreatAgain

Shima walls of death has been done already, wasn't enjoyable.

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14 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Shima walls of death has been done already, wasn't enjoyable.

which is why Asashio doesn't get 3x5 Torps.....

Also a lot has changed since those times....

With all those Radars and especially Hydro around I doubt you could reenact the old days even if you were to revert Shima to her old stats.

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FWIW, I am  currently the DD player with the most clanwar DD battles in my clan. This is not to brag, but to establish my credentials. I love playing DDs. 

 

And I hate this ship with a passion. It is game-breaking. I do not want to lose games because the enemy gets broken ships and MM gifted them those broken ships. The Asashio is utterly broken - not only from a gameplay but also from a design perspective. The strength of DDs is that they can do a little bit of everything and fight against every cap. They can scout, they can engage all enemy surface ships, they need to contest caps.

 

a) Pushing caps

This ship is - by design - less strong in contesting caps. It also sucks the ever loving fun out of any team that is pushing a cap. It rewards passive BB play by forcing people to play passive. It punishes what is considered good BB play - aka the BBs that push up to support their cruisers and dds. 

 

B) engage all enemy forces

This ship is severely handicapped when fighting three out of the four classes in this game. It has no AA, it has no usable torps against cruisers and DDs. 

 

C) scouting

I guess it scouts just fine....but not better than any other dd in the game. 

 

 

In conclusion, to make this ship fun it needs to have BBs pushing into it and also BBs being near the spots where it is. Which means it will be rewarded or punished depending on MM more than other DDs.

 

This is not okay. 

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1 hour ago, VC381 said:

Torps and guns don't win cap battles, team support does.

Please tell this to every DD captain that takes his ship to cap, gets spotted, smokes up immediately and dies to the enemy DD's torpedoes while sitting in his smoke...

 

I am currently leveling PADD and it is a pain in the arm not being able to hit other DD with torps (or not even being able to threaten to hit).

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The ship itself is crap. A ship which can't gunboat at all and has torpedoes that only hit BBs is an awful platform to begin with. I don't mind it because of that. It certainly isn't OP, it isn't even average, it's positively crap.

But  I mind it because of the OBVIOUS results that bringing that thing into the meta will cause. Namely: wreck it.

The whole premise of this ship apologists is that "it will punish camping BBs". No it will not. Or yes it will, but ONLY after having punished BBs that push the objective.

Picture this. You're in your anti-BB weapon of doom, you spot a BB supporting a cap push at the beginning of the battle, at around 11km from you and moving closer. Meanwhile you can see far, far away at around 19km an enemy BB who's doing the usual spawncamping legion protocole of hitting W once, and not coming closer than 18km from any detected ship.

Who will you launch torpedos at?. It's obvious, at the guy at 11km who will have to deal with a skill wall of 20k damage ultrafast torpedoes lobbing his way just because he dared to come close to a cap. You're punishing the players who support the team and play the objective - not those who camp.


You want BBs that push the objective?. I do too. I'm a pretty balanced player between the main classes (DD/cruiser/BB), I play them all and in almost all the lines, and I can tell you my BBs are ALWAYS supporting the caps of my team when I play them. Yet the second this abomination is brought into the game, and I see one in the enemy team while I'm playing a battleship, I'm not leaving the spawn area until said abomination is deleted (hence, sunk).

I understand that everyone in his right mind wants proactive BB players who play the objective, but this is not the way to encourage that... this is EXACTLY the way to promote the opposite.


On the other side of the equation we all know that this game is 80% potatoes, 15% decent players, 4% good players, 1% unicums. 80% of those who buy this thing will never bother capping, scouting or doing anything they are supposed to do as a DD, they will just derp around lobbing torps from 20km to any battleship they see. So in one hand you're punishing teamplay oriented BB players while on the other hand you're promoting braindead DD gameplay. 

Noone wins.

Don't bring this abomination to the game. Just shelve it and forget it ever existed - it will only wreck gameplay instead of helping it..

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Spoke with past clan a bit. Interest was shown for the following play styles:

 

1. Close range, fast torps, primary purpose to flush out caps.

2. Fast, but weak (vulnerable) DD. Rewards skill and tactical positioning.

3. Multiple torpedo mounts to cut off escape routes, but requires ship to be pushing against enemies to be effective instead of camping.

 

Basically the anti-Asashio.

 

Basically, Kitakami, with Pan-Asian smoke, and 6.5km torps instead of 10.

 

Wtb Unicum mode Kitakami : /

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I voted yes to both. Not sure if I have the 1k games, but must be close and I have most of the T10 torpedo DD's.

 

I think the Asashio is a lousy concept and it certainly won't punish the camping BB's or encourage them to be less inclined to border hug. Fortunately unlike the AP bomb concept that was supposed to be anti BB, but the reality is they're anti cruiser weapons and DWT equipped Pan Asian DD's that torp cruisers at least the Asashio is BB only, but it's still a dumb idea.

 

While I like DD's and have a fair few of the Premium ones, the Asashio isn't something I'll buy in the current format.

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I'll be buying it.

 

Sick and tired of being blatted by BB AP from 15km when i cannot do anything back to them.

 

Roll on !!

 

TB.

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1 hour ago, RAMJB said:

You want BBs that push the objective?. I do too

 

Actually, I don't. I want BBs supporting the objective, but pushing it is not, and should not be their job. I don't want every island gap to have a BB parked bow in and impossible to remove, denying the area in front of it to everyone else. That's static gameplay, that's camping in my opinion and is very stale for the other classes. It would be OK if bow tanking didn't exist and BBs had the ability and incentive to punish each-other but that's not the case. They push and ignore each-other while basically squeezing the other classes out of the space between them. This isn't some MMO where BBs are the paladins leading the charge. They should have a healthy respect for getting into dangerous situations and staying on the move at a range where their dispersion balances their damage potential so other classes can fight at their optimum ranges as well. I don't want every BB on the map border either but that's an exaggeration, there has to be a middle ground.

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