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usage of Vigilance perk

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[IRAN]
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i'm trying to grind my commanders so i need some advise for using DE or Vig on cruisers .

which ships(cruiser or BB)do you recommend using Vigilance as a commander perk ?

for example Flamu uses Vig on ZAo and Moskva ... or on some BBs too

 

 

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[8BIT]
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Personally for Cruisers, I would choose DE over Vigilance just for the increased fire damage potential. Vigilance would not be a priority skill maybe consider at 13pt Skill for me.

Once I get detected and not spotted the ship after a few secs I pop hydro, which most of the time is ample to detect torps. I do use it on ships without the Hydro consumable 

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[UNICS]
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I belive that if you use 2x rudder mod on your cruiser vigiliance becomes useless. For battleships it`s really going to help with IJN torps ATM, because all other torps have so low concealment, that if caught broadside to torps you won`t be dodging them anyway. You can spend those points on more useful perks.

 

And by the way 2x rudder mod is IMHO actually better on most CA`s than concealment because you can actually dodge shells with it, and kite effectively, which compared to getting an extra 1-1.5km of concealment (until you shoot of course), and a sticker from RNGesus (dispersion) is rather good.

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I don't really get DE for most cruisers, it's what?  ~ 10% fire chance buff in return for 3 points, I'm not sure it's worth it.

 

I'd say SI on anything balanced around its consumables (RN CL) and vigilance on anything else.

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Generally speaking there are better perks than Vigilance for cruisers. It depends alot on how close to the front the cruiser usually play. Royal cruisers are probably the most viable Viglance candiates since smokescreens are torpedo magnets.

Better skills: CE, AFT,  IFHE, RPF, SI, DE, AR, EM, JoaT all come to mind.

 

The russians & French  play in the backline so no reason to get vigilance. 

Amuricans: short effective range so might benefit, but they generally have very good rudder shift time

Germans: Vigilance stacks with hydro, so might be pickworthy for this reason (dd hunting). That said, with the exception of the hipper I believe they play at long range.

IJN: might be the other pickworthy nation.

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8 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Generally speaking there are better perks than Vigilance for cruisers. It depends alot on how close to the front the cruiser usually play. Royal cruisers are probably the most viable Viglance candiates since smokescreens are torpedo magnets.

 

But then they also have hydro to use whilst in smoke so in that case I don't see vigilance as being that useful.

 

 

8 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Better skills: CE, AFT,  IFHE, RPF, SI, DE, AR, EM, JoaT all come to mind.

 

Those are all 2 or 4 point skills, but you have to choose at least one 3 point skill, so which is best?

 

It's obviously ship dependent, I don't see SI as being valuable if it's just another charge of hydro or def. AA but obviously for RN then the extra smoke charge is the one to go for, possibly T9/10 it's worthwhile for the extra heal.

 

DE, depends upon base fire chance, for the CL's probably, for CA possibly not, IJN have a very high base chance to start with, the KM a low one, USN/Fr/SN somewhere inbetween.

 

Vigliance also works better for the mid tier ships that don't have the range to snipe from the back and aren't quite agile enough to dodge reliably.

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10 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

But then they also have hydro to use whilst in smoke so in that case I don't see vigilance as being that useful.

 

 

 

Those are all 2 or 4 point skills, but you have to choose at least one 3 point skill, so which is best?

 

It's obviously ship dependent, I don't see SI as being valuable if it's just another charge of hydro or def. AA but obviously for RN then the extra smoke charge is the one to go for, possibly T9/10 it's worthwhile for the extra heal.

 

DE, depends upon base fire chance, for the CL's probably, for CA possibly not, IJN have a very high base chance to start with, the KM a low one, USN/Fr/SN somewhere inbetween.

 

Vigliance also works better for the mid tier ships that don't have the range to snipe from the back and aren't quite agile enough to dodge reliably.

You underestimate how long it takes to stop reversing and go forward in RN cruisers... Hydro+Vigilance here is actually good idea. When you're in the open and sailing forward you can use their agility to evade, Vigilance alone is enough.

 

Demo Expert on other hand gives only 1% effective fire chance against tier 10 (50% base fire resistance), making that skill somewhat doubtful. But then, amount of clearly useful T3 skills is limited. Picking one T1 and one T2 skills could be an option, but then amount of useful T2 skills isn't that high. AR for sure, EM is base turret traverse needs it. What else? Last Stand? I can see it being valuable on FR cruisers as they tend to surrender their rudders on first shot being fired at them. High Alert/JoaT are more BB oriented with their longer cooldowns

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42 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Demo Expert on other hand gives only 1% effective fire chance against tier 10 (50% base fire resistance), making that skill somewhat doubtful. But then, amount of clearly useful T3 skills is limited. Picking one T1 and one T2 skills could be an option, but then amount of useful T2 skills isn't that high. AR for sure, EM is base turret traverse needs it. What else? Last Stand? I can see it being valuable on FR cruisers as they tend to surrender their rudders on first shot being fired at them. High Alert/JoaT are more BB oriented with their longer cooldowns

I guess there's a basic problem here that there aren't many very useful cruiser orientated captain skills in the tree, PT at T1 and CE at T4  but that's about it.  Looking at some of the other options:

  • EM - marginal benefit;
  • AR - you need to live long enough to use it;
  • LS - occasional, maybe on some ships;
  • JoAT/SI - not for most;
  • TA/TAE - nope;
  • Vig/DE - as discussed;
  • BoS/SE/FP - nope;
  • IFHE - only for some ships;
  • MSec/MAA - nope (few exceptions);
  • RPF - limited popularity
  • BFT/AFT - probably all that's left, but even then stil meh.

Perhaps if WG want to make cruisers more popular this is where they should start, revamp the skill tree to make it more relevant to them, because at the moment, there are lots of options for BB and DD but very few for cruisers.

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30 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

I guess there's a basic problem here that there aren't many very useful cruiser orientated captain skills in the tree, PT at T1 and CE at T4  but that's about it.  Looking at some of the other options:

  • EM - marginal benefit;
  • AR - you need to live long enough to use it;
  • LS - occasional, maybe on some ships;
  • JoAT/SI - not for most;
  • TA/TAE - nope;
  • Vig/DE - as discussed;
  • BoS/SE/FP - nope;
  • IFHE - only for some ships;
  • MSec/MAA - nope (few exceptions);
  • RPF - limited popularity
  • BFT/AFT - probably all that's left, but even then stil meh.

Perhaps if WG want to make cruisers more popular this is where they should start, revamp the skill tree to make it more relevant to them, because at the moment, there are lots of options for BB and DD but very few for cruisers.

 

I guess extending BFT/AFT skills to work on CL/CA sized guns could do, maybe with limited benefits. Something like

BFT: -10% reload on guns up to 139mm, -5% reload on guns up to 240mm

AFT: +20% main battery range on guns up to 139mm, +10% main battery range on guns up to 240mm

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30 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

I guess there's a basic problem here that there aren't many very useful cruiser orientated captain skills in the tree, PT at T1 and CE at T4  but that's about it.  Looking at some of the other options:

  • EM - marginal benefit;
  • AR - you need to live long enough to use it;
  • LS - occasional, maybe on some ships;
  • JoAT/SI - not for most;
  • TA/TAE - nope;
  • Vig/DE - as discussed;
  • BoS/SE/FP - nope;
  • IFHE - only for some ships;
  • MSec/MAA - nope (few exceptions);
  • RPF - limited popularity
  • BFT/AFT - probably all that's left, but even then stil meh.

Perhaps if WG want to make cruisers more popular this is where they should start, revamp the skill tree to make it more relevant to them, because at the moment, there are lots of options for BB and DD but very few for cruisers.

Not useful?

On lower tiers BoS is pretty useful (naturally on high tier end captains) combined with flags fires will be less problematic after you burned your DCP. BFT/AFT useful on low tier cruisers like Bogatyr Svetlana Kolberg where the caliber is 139 mm or below. 

SE I take them as first skill on 3 p on many of the cruisers w heals, smoke and radar , one smoke more (most useful on Kutuzov), AR you are often on low health a while , on low tiers I find it useful, RN crusiers with smoke and heals early on yes pls. 

 

The other of your points above I agree with, though most have the odd exceptions.

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5 minutes ago, Gnirf said:

Not useful?

On lower tiers BoS is pretty useful (naturally on high tier end captains) combined with flags fires will be less problematic after you burned your DCP. BFT/AFT useful on low tier cruisers like Bogatyr Svetlana Kolberg where the caliber is 139 mm or below. 

SE I take them as first skill on 3 p on many of the cruisers w heals, smoke and radar , one smoke more (most useful on Kutuzov), AR you are often on low health a while , on low tiers I find it useful, RN crusiers with smoke and heals early on yes pls. 

 

The other of your points above I agree with, though most have the odd exceptions.

Fire deals %hp damage, so BoS is as "useful" on T1 as on T10 cruiser, especially as fire on cruisers last 30s. So for 3 points invested in BoS you gain what, 4.5s on fire duration? And cruisers with <139mm guns are in minority in this game I'm afraid. SI is obvious choice on ships with multiple consumables, not so much if all you can use is Hydro/DFAA

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6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Fire deals %hp damage, so BoS is as "useful" on T1 as on T10 cruiser, especially as fire on cruisers last 30s. So for 3 points invested in BoS you gain what, 4.5s on fire duration? And cruisers with <139mm guns are in minority in this game I'm afraid. SI is obvious choice on ships with multiple consumables, not so much if all you can use is Hydro/DFAA

You get better AA with BFT also. yes I am talking about low tier cruisers where the distances are so short and many spams HE so fires are common. If you have a limited health pool and no heal I consider them useful, I have a few 19p on cruisers, Chikuma and Bogatyr and it helps me survive longer. On higher tier cruisers I do not use it, on T10 you can healt the fire damage back which you can't in lower tiers.

 

But that is when you get high end captains as I say. I usually takes DE on most cruisers below tier 9 (not RN ofc)except those with consumables that are in good need of one more.

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3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

 

I guess extending BFT/AFT skills to work on CL/CA sized guns could do, maybe with limited benefits. Something like

BFT: -10% reload on guns up to 139mm, -5% reload on guns up to 240mm

AFT: +20% main battery range on guns up to 139mm, +10% main battery range on guns up to 240mm

 

Would help, maybe also:

  • EM - raise the caliber limit from 139 to 240, or make the effect more closely related to caliber;
  • DE - make it a % boost to base fire chance, say + 25% (i.e. 8% -> 10%, 12% -> 15%);
  • SE - make it a % boost to HP, say 15% of base HP;
  • MAA - remove limitation to <85mm guns (will require rebalance elsewhere).

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2 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Would help, maybe also:

  • EM - raise the caliber limit from 139 to 240, or make the effect more closely related to caliber;
  • DE - make it a % boost to base fire chance, say + 25% (i.e. 8% -> 10%, 12% -> 15%);
  • SE - make it a % boost to HP, say 15% of base HP;
  • MAA - remove limitation to <85mm guns (will require rebalance elsewhere).

MAA could replace 30% dps bonus from manually selecting squadron with higher number. I dunno, 100% bonus to make it worth 4 points and just like Manual Secondaries AA guns wouldn't open fire unless ordered to do so

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2 hours ago, Panocek said:

You underestimate how long it takes to stop reversing and go forward in RN cruisers... Hydro+Vigilance here is actually good idea. When you're in the open and sailing forward you can use their agility to evade, Vigilance alone is enough.

 

This Is So true and a good point. This has never sat well with me...Rnl Cruisers are one of the most manoeuvrable in the game but when it comes to stopping....im not sure if they are worse or on par with BB;'s. Its almost comical sometimes...they just will not stop. how can that be when they are so light and agile??!!!:Smile-angry:

 

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5 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

But then they also have hydro to use whilst in smoke so in that case I don't see vigilance as being that useful.

True enough as long as you dont borrow some DDs smokescreen after your own expired which I tend to do alot  :)

Also RN cruisers have more captain points than they really need

 

Quote

Those are all 2 or 4 point skills, but you have to choose at least one 3 point skill, so which is best?

I have Superintendent for radar (RU+USN) and smoke/heal (RN) and also BFT (Flint). Kutuzov + OpFast run Superintendent + DE. I dont play IJN or germans but I would prolly use SI for another hydro charge on germans.

Tier 3 are great DD skills but seems of little use to cruisers.

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[IRAN]
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this is the build i have found on net 

 

Zao

PT

EM AR

DE SI

CE AFT

Des Moines

PT

EM AR

DE SI

CE AFT

Moskva

PT

EM AR

DE SI

CE AFT

Hindenburg

PT

AR HA

DE SI

CE AFT

Minotaur

PT

JoAT AR

SI Vig

CE AFT

Henri IV

PT

EM AR

DE SI

CE AFT

 

 

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