Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
SHDRKN4792

Mogami back to T7 when?

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles

Basically, the topic title.

 

I wasn't there when it was a thing, but starting this game early in the open beta I kinda heard all about Mogami being T7 back in the day and to put it that way, people crying about 15 guns on a cruiser at T7, how OP that was (part of which was only because how captain skills worked at the time with Mogami guns), BBs crying about the HE spam (more than nowadays) so Mogami is T8 as we all know her today.

 

And now considering that I had to admit I was really surprised to see the new T7 american CL, Helena, almost a Mogami with an american flag slapped on it... at T7. Even more when today I saw the ST buff reducing the guns reload form 10 seconds like Mogami to 8'5. And that being fine it seems... at T7. So yes, my only question to WG is the title. Mogami back to T7 when?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YARRR]
Beta Tester
6,709 posts
13,166 battles

Mogami also had ~18km range with AFT and a generous stealth firing window back in the day, outperforming Myoko in almost every aspect. To say that Helena and pre-nerf Mogami aren't even remotely comparable is an understatement.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles
4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Mogami also had ~18km range with AFT and a generous stealth firing window back in the day, outperforming Myoko in almost every aspect. To say that Helena and pre-nerf Mogami aren't even remotely comparable is an understatement.

True, but that's why I pointed out that Mogami was so OP back then mainly because how the commander skills worked with that caliber of guns back in the day. AFT worked to a max of 155 mm caliber guns, just like Mogami guns, BFT and EM too and sure with steathfiring on top of that Mogami was a monster.

 

But with the guns related skills not working anymore on Mogami she was pretty balanced again, sure, she still has 15 guns and you still have to have some respect for that and don't just run in range of a Mogami with decend island cover if you don't want to be quickly farmed but looking at Helena just the sheer massive amount of guns it's not the problem for a ship not being T7, that's why I started wondering again what's the problem with returning Mogami to T7 again now.

 

Considering the USN cruiser split I even thought that the IJN had a few CLs, not sure if enough for a line, but maybe there's a possibility to see a split of CLs and CAs for the IJN in the future that changes the current line a bit too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles
10 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Is mogami underperforming compared to other tier 8 cruisers atm?

Haven't checked, honestly. I'll guess not just by your question, but my question was just because Mogami was once a T7. Your argument of Mogami being ok at T8 it's perfectly valid, I'm even surprised it wasn't the first thing to come up. :Smile_teethhappy: But yeah, I'm just curious remembering how back in the day Mogami was such a problem and now we have Helena is at T7.

 

I also understand that the game changed A LOT since Mogami being a T7 so Helena isn't really a problem at T7 now but well, I don't really have that much faith that Mogami will ever be a T7 again, but if that were to happen I wouldn't complain either. :cap_haloween:It's just that it would be nice, right? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Players
2,787 posts
11,557 battles

I haven't checked either, but I doubt it's worse than the current Hipper and NO. Regarding Helena I think it will have a different role, and with the expected arcs, it will probably be less useful than a mogami in tier 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
1,882 posts

Can you imagine Mogami in T6 or even worse T5 battle? It would have to be nerfed in my opinion.

Yes, it sucks being being bottom tier in most of the battles, but I think Mogami still handles it pretty well.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,804 posts
15,421 battles

I just started playing a Mogami and I though that Atago is a good ship. This one with 155mm even without IFHE is a monster, dealing often insane amount of damage very fast. Yea - it's paper like, but not such like a Chapa. Downgrading it to T7 - why ? That one, as it is, can still stand vs IX/X-s.

 

First nine games in stock - 85K average/1.1 ship killed (no IFHE). With IFHE/full invisibility onboard you can just melt BB/cruisers, playing safe Atlanta style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMSR]
Players
1,645 posts
5,871 battles

Mogami is fine at T8 (Myoko at T8 wouldnt work) that said if her torpedo angles were improved a bit it would make them more usefull, since atm to use them in any close quarters for a last ditch effort (mind you, if you muck up and get caught offguard) still requiers too mutch turning, only time theyr usefull is if someone decides to chase you, and thats rare nowdays. Just my thought. :Smile_Default:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[FATAL]
Beta Tester
571 posts
2,586 battles

Despite what it says in my signature (I might have to update it), I hate to say this but I think the Mogami is probably ok at tier 8.  Yes, I would like a heal or maybe an extra 5-10k HP, or possibly a small buff to the armour/citadel so so you don't get insta-gibbed as soon as you are spotted, but like @Skyllon says, against tier 6 ships it's very strong.  Against tier 5 it would be an absolute monster.  Of course, it tends to see more tier 10 than tier 6, but that's a different problem...

 

As for the new US cruiser potentially being like a Mogami but a tier lower, and therefore maybe a bit OP (and I have no idea if that is the case or not), this is WG so what do you expect?  WG have a history across all their titles of releasing OP new lines whilst old lines become increasingly obsolete due to power creep.  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,994 posts
2,939 battles

Back in "ze dayz" if I remember correctly, Fubuki was tier nine...
Maybe going back isn't always a good thing ^^"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[4_0_4]
Players
3,792 posts
10,368 battles

If they ever put in a IJN CL-Line like they do now with the US-Cruisers, I guess the current Mogami will lose the option of the 155mm guns.

 

And the Mogami itself being the ship in the line after the Myoko is also fine, considering the Mogamis were the class after die Myoko class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles
2 hours ago, Skyllon said:

Can you imagine Mogami in T6 or even worse T5 battle? It would have to be nerfed in my opinion.

Yes, it sucks being being bottom tier in most of the battles, but I think Mogami still handles it pretty well.

 

Mmm... well, yeah, I guess I'll have to agrre that facing a Mogami with a T5 wouldn't be fun at all thinking  about it, but... well, that's kind of the point, Mogami would be a nightmare to face with a T5, but even with @loppantorkel argument about USN shell arcs wouldn't a Helena be the same anyways? That's why I was surprised seeing Helena as a T7 as said in the topic OP. Mogami was monstruous in the day because of how commander skill worked, but the real "OP" thing of the ship itself is having 15 guns, which isn't fun at all to fight againts when downtiered against that.

 

I agree with you that maybe how frustrating are to play most T8 ships today is what made me think of the idea of returning Mogami to T7. To be honest even if I don't play cruisers for quite some time when I started the game, not even having idea what a Yamato was after looking the ships we had back in the day Mogami was the first thing I aimed at so maybe I'm a bit "biased" about her because of that so I'd be happy to see her at T7 nonetheless. :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles
5 minutes ago, LastButterfly said:

Back in "ze dayz" if I remember correctly, Fubuki was tier nine...
Maybe going back isn't always a good thing ^^"

Well, depends on the ship and/or situation. :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMSR]
Players
1,645 posts
5,871 battles

It was a tiny bit OP back then, again so was Cleveland, it was a OMG moment when you transitioned from Aoba to Mogami, it was pre overmatch aswell, you could bounce BB shells to a degree, first you burned them while angling left and right charging in then as you passed by, torp them :Smile_playing:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles

Just checked myself, btw @loppantorkel and you're right, Mogami is currently 6th out of the 10 T8 cruisers both in WR and average damage so could be worse.

 

But well, I don't really expect that much that WG's going to change Mogami's tier because of Helena. It's true that each new line being stronger and making the older ones more and more obsolute, so it would be just as usual as pointed out, but maybe obviously nerfing her as it was said, Mogami could be "balanced Helena style" with nerfs according to downgrading her a tier it could work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,143 posts
9,348 battles
13 hours ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Basically, the topic title.

 

I wasn't there when it was a thing, but starting this game early in the open beta I kinda heard all about Mogami being T7 back in the day and to put it that way, people crying about 15 guns on a cruiser at T7, how OP that was (part of which was only because how captain skills worked at the time with Mogami guns), BBs crying about the HE spam (more than nowadays) so Mogami is T8 as we all know her today.

 

And now considering that I had to admit I was really surprised to see the new T7 american CL, Helena, almost a Mogami with an american flag slapped on it... at T7. Even more when today I saw the ST buff reducing the guns reload form 10 seconds like Mogami to 8'5. And that being fine it seems... at T7. So yes, my only question to WG is the title. Mogami back to T7 when?

 

When mogami got moved to t7 cap skills didn't do much for it at all actually. Overall if you use the 203s it's still better by comparison than the myoko anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[H_FAN]
Players
1,865 posts
20,845 battles
5 hours ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Just checked myself, btw @loppantorkel and you're right, Mogami is currently 6th out of the 10 T8 cruisers both in WR and average damage so could be worse.

 

But well, I don't really expect that much that WG's going to change Mogami's tier because of Helena. It's true that each new line being stronger and making the older ones more and more obsolute, so it would be just as usual as pointed out, but maybe obviously nerfing her as it was said, Mogami could be "balanced Helena style" with nerfs according to downgrading her a tier it could work.

The key is of course how Helena actually performs at T7, if she becomes really OP when the results ticks in, she might be nerfed. Now f.e. the Orion finally get its nerf. König has recieved it before, Shiratsuyu had both smoke and TRB, for me Helena is definately the ship that I lookk forward to in the US light cruiser line, especially as she is in the today friendly MM spot of T7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YARRR]
Beta Tester
6,709 posts
13,166 battles
8 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

Back in "ze dayz" if I remember correctly, Fubuki was tier nine.

 

*T8.

And she was an amazing DD for her tier.

So yeah, we should go back. Remember, even the devs admit that the game was better in CBT.

Spoiler

 

(at 1:14)

:Smile_trollface:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,994 posts
2,939 battles
16 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

*T8.

Aaaaah I KNEW someone was gonna try to correct me on that.

 

Well NO ! I did mean tier nine as in a big ol' 9 or three squared or however you wanna write it and I have proof ! =3

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/tech-trees-japanese-destroyers/

 

Back in the days Fubuki was tier 9, yup. Though it's not well known to the general public~
(also in the article : Fubuki with 3 quad launchers. Ooooh boy xD)

 

And, btw, honestly ? Fubuki deserves a tier 7. I mean 6 is like completely stupid. Talk about overnerfing a ship.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMSR]
Players
1,645 posts
5,871 battles

Fubuki on T8 was the best DD the IJN ever had, i soo miss mine :Smile_sad:

(i still wish wg would just copy paste it back) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SNUBS]
Players
1,230 posts
6,345 battles

mogami is still a strong ship. id rather have an mogami in T8 then a myoko.

the only issue i have with it is the range in T10 matches is pretty short.

if they buff that a bit this ship is pretty damn good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
Players
1,020 posts
15,381 battles

Ship is not just a count of guns. Mogami, unlike Helena, has 4 quadruple torpedo launchers, two on each side. It is like having a Shiratusuyu strapped on each side. Now torpedo angles were not great but having that much torps gives Mogami a quite a punch. Helena only rely for damage on her guns. She is also currently in the ST so it is questionable will she keep that 8.5sec reload in her final form. Why is she at T7? Historic progression probably plus some other things. Brooklyn class came before Cleveland class. Many expected to see Brooklyn's at T8, and I still hope that we will one day see Savannah in her final form there but I honestly I doubt that would happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,390 posts
14,127 battles

Helena can be conveniently nerfed simply by giving bad turret firing arcs and slow turret traverse. Specially that 3rd turret could be almost useless every time you need to radically change course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
Players
1,020 posts
15,381 battles
18 minutes ago, JapLance said:

Helena can be conveniently nerfed simply by giving bad turret firing arcs and slow turret traverse. Specially that 3rd turret could be almost useless every time you need to radically change course.

Helena now has nice turret arcs. But first three turrets has worse layout than Mogami. For example if you need to switch target from front left to front right in 90 degree angle without changing course all three Mogami turrets will do this in 18sec, without any captain skill or upgrade. On the other side front two turrets of Helena will do this in 11.25sec but third turret needs to rotate 270 degree and will get in position in 33.75sec.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×