Vanguard- What would you like to be its features?

[Erik_Aukan]

Eventually Vanguard would make its appearence in World of warships, Hopefully in the tier 8 or even 9 bracket. What would you like to be the ships features and characteristics?

 

I hope for a design that emphasizes on AP rather than HE, deadly accurate guns, nice handling, good penetration values.

Since it was the world last battleship to be completed, it should reflect qualities that made the ship better than its predecessors.

Although it has only 8 15" guns similar to Warspite, Hood and many other RN battleships, it could make use of the supercharge propellant and better fire control direction. 

 

What do you think?

[Affeks]

Lots of opinions over there. Post was made after RN BB release.

[Faolchu]

At this point I'm worried WG will try to charge £150-200 for it and give us a floating turd. So I'd take a ship that is a reliable gun platform without paper for armour that doesn't break the bank balance.

[MrFingers]

In short: a T8 Warspite, which means: normal AP, normal HE, accurate guns, manoeuvrable.

[Turin7]

16 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

In short: a T8 Warspite, which means: normal AP, normal HE, accurate guns, manoeuvrable.

Now, now, lets not be unrealistic here. Vanguard needs a couple or five glorious gimmicks otherwise it would risk being a balanced ship. I'm sure WG shudders at the thought.  

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

1 hour ago, Erik_Aukan said:

Eventually Vanguard would make its appearence in World of warships, Hopefully in the tier 8 or even 9 bracket. What would you like to be the ships features and characteristics?

 

I hope for a design that emphasizes on AP rather than HE, deadly accurate guns, nice handling, good penetration values.

Since it was the world last battleship to be completed, it should reflect qualities that made the ship better than its predecessors.

Although it has only 8 15" guns similar to Warspite, Hood and many other RN battleships, it could make use of the supercharge propellant and better fire control direction. 

 

What do you think?

I don't think it wil ever come to WoWS.

[MrFingers]

25 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

I don't think it wil ever come to WoWS.

What makes you think that? It's the prime example for the T8 Premium BB. Unique ship (sole member of the class), did actually exist, has a reputation, different from the techtree T8,...

[fumtu]

Is there some change to fit it at T7. I don't think that RN has enough T7 premium battleships.

 

1 hour ago, fumtu said:

Is there some change to fit it at T7. I don't think that RN has enough T7 premium battleships.

Definitely. Needs more premiums at tier 7. 

 

seriously, A tier 8 Royal Navy battleship would be nice. 

I hope for a Warspite-ish battleship with very high accuracy, strong AP, and tanky. This ship would fit very well to that.

[piritskenyer]

well, I was about to shamelessly self-promote, but it looks like Affeks did that for me

[Tyrendian89]

9 minutes ago, Erik_Aukan said:

Definitely. Needs more premiums at tier 7. 

 

seriously, A tier 8 Royal Navy battleship would be nice. 

I hope for a Warspite-ish battleship with very high accuracy, strong AP, and tanky. This ship would fit very well to that.

Warspite? Tanky? wat? What reality are you living in, and can I come over to yours? I want my Warspite to be tanky... And same for "strong" AP - the Pen of the Grand Old Lady is complete poop... Which it does sort of have to be to balance out the caliber and (relative) accuracy at T6...

[piritskenyer]

19 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Warspite? Tanky? wat? What reality are you living in, and can I come over to yours? I want my Warspite to be tanky... And same for "strong" AP - the Pen of the Grand Old Lady is complete poop... Which it does sort of have to be to balance out the caliber and (relative) accuracy at T6...

Poop penetration? Come on, man, she's the only ship I have that I have ever managed to land a citadel with on a Bismarck (on live). I don't think the pen is poop, it's perfectly adequate.

[Centurion_1711]

5 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

Poop penetration? Come on, man, she's the only ship I have that I have ever managed to land a citadel with on a Bismarck (on live). I don't think the pen is poop, it's perfectly adequate.

That's a feat and a half, citadelling a Bismarck. Did you hit the Turtleback at long range, or penetrate the turret barbettes? Plus, if a Warspite can do that (with the better 6crh shells I believe) then some supercharged AP on Vanguard will be great for any ship she faces, except maybe T10's.

However, I read somewhere that supercharges weren't issued to Vanguard, or any Battleships that had the upgrade to the turrets (30 degree elevation). I hope this doesn't stop WG from using them, as the 15-inchers may be good but they are WWI-era guns, so may struggle at times.

[piritskenyer]

1 minute ago, Centurion_1711 said:

That's a feat and a half, citadelling a Bismarck. Did you hit the Turtleback at long range, or penetrate the turret barbettes? Plus, if a Warspite can do that (with the better 6crh shells I believe) then some supercharged AP on Vanguard will be great for any ship she faces, except maybe T10's.

However, I read somewhere that supercharges weren't issued to Vanguard, or any Battleships that had the upgrade to the turrets (30 degree elevation). I hope this doesn't stop WG from using them, as the 15-inchers may be good but they are WWI-era guns, so may struggle at times.

I just pointed at the german, started singing "British Grenadiers", clicked and boom.

I seem to recall it was a midrange (12-ish kilometres?) hit forward of C turret.

 

Yes, supercharges were never issued to the ship, however she was made ready to use them, should the need arise (ie. in wartime), and I think battles in the game very much qualify as wartime  In my writeup I have elected to use the Mk XVIIb Cardonald shells (a batch of shells built by Cardonald of Scotland had an exceptionally hard middle body upping the penetration compared to other rounds) as well as the supercharges for the AP on new barrels as that is pretty much the only combination with which the ship would be in line with all the other battleships of the tier.

 

And while WWI-era guns, one mustn't forget that even the americans regard those guns as some of the best shipboard artillery ever developed. An oldie, but most certainly a goodie.

[Erik_Aukan]

2 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

I just pointed at the german, started singing "British Grenadiers", clicked and boom.

I seem to recall it was a midrange (12-ish kilometres?) hit forward of C turret.

 

Yes, supercharges were never issued to the ship, however she was made ready to use them, should the need arise (ie. in wartime), and I think battles in the game very much qualify as wartime  In my writeup I have elected to use the Mk XVIIb Cardonald shells (a batch of shells built by Cardonald of Scotland had an exceptionally hard middle body upping the penetration compared to other rounds) as well as the supercharges for the AP on new barrels as that is pretty much the only combination with which the ship would be in line with all the other battleships of the tier.

 

And while WWI-era guns, one mustn't forget that even the americans regard those guns as some of the best shipboard artillery ever developed. An oldie, but most certainly a goodie.

I've also citadelled Tirpitzes and Bismarckses, up to several times. I believe that was about max range, with and without scouting aircraft. The guns pack a nice punch even against tier 8s, altough the limited range is a problem. 

 

Vanguard would have both the range and speed to dictate engagements. 

The ship would fit its role excellent with high accuracy and good tankyness. Since it had very good torpedo protection, I suspect one of her perks would be high torpedo damage reduction.

 

[Centurion_1711]

30 minutes ago, Erik_Aukan said:

I've also citadelled Tirpitzes and Bismarckses, up to several times. I believe that was about max range, with and without scouting aircraft. The guns pack a nice punch even against tier 8s, altough the limited range is a problem. 

 

Vanguard would have both the range and speed to dictate engagements. 

The ship would fit its role excellent with high accuracy and good tankyness. Since it had very good torpedo protection, I suspect one of her perks would be high torpedo damage reduction.

Damn it folks, you're going to make me empty my wallet for a Warspite or Hood now. And then HMS Vanguard when it is added. It's a shame HMS Queen Elizabeth lacks the pen of other 15"/42's, that ship is probably one of my fave BB's right now, aside from October Revolution (for the glorious sealclubbing ). I need more money, too many iconic ships!

[robihr]

i know what it needs; radar, def AA and a smoke just to be special

 

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

3 hours ago, MrFingers said:

What makes you think that? It's the prime example for the T8 Premium BB. Unique ship (sole member of the class), did actually exist, has a reputation, different from the techtree T8,...

Because there already 3 tier 7 RN premium BBs and i don't trust Wargaming to be able to balance the HMS Vanguard for tier 8 with the  BL 15"/42 Mark1 and if they would place Mark 2s or 16 inchers it would not be the real HMS Vanguard and people would burn down the forum. Also Wargaming has not modelled the ship as far as I am informed or mentioned that they intend to.

[Erik_Aukan]

Even if they gave it radar or sonar, I think it's main attraction would be decent damage, tankyness and comfortable handling. Hopefully they make it different from Lion with its paper armor, HE spam and Super Heal. 

I would like a good, solid Royal Navy BB that's fun to play and fun to play against.

[piritskenyer]

25 minutes ago, Erik_Aukan said:

Even if they gave it radar or sonar, I think it's main attraction would be decent damage, tankyness and comfortable handling. Hopefully they make it different from Lion with its paper armor, HE spam and Super Heal. 

I would like a good, solid Royal Navy BB that's fun to play and fun to play against.

 

I don'T even think that she'd need radar or hydro. Just Warspite's DCP and DRP, 72'400HP and decent armour with boosted reload and the aforementioned supercharged penetration.

[Erik_Aukan]

14 hours ago, piritskenyer said:

 

I don'T even think that she'd need radar or hydro. Just Warspite's DCP and DRP, 72'400HP and decent armour with boosted reload and the aforementioned supercharged penetration.

Yes, excactly! that would make a fun ship to play, and also a decent opponent that's fun to play against.

[Centurion_1711]

21 hours ago, piritskenyer said:

I just pointed at the german, started singing "British Grenadiers", clicked and boom.

I seem to recall it was a midrange (12-ish kilometres?) hit forward of C turret.

Just a few minutes ago, I got similar results. I was sailing my Queen Elizabeth, and managed to citadel a Tirpitz at 11km. All shots hit amidships, so it must have been perfect plunging fire. I guess all the Tirpitz wallet warriors will be crying as they get citadelled to hell and back by Vanguard wallet warriors. I suppose I'll rab the popcorn and wait for the rage from the Kriegsmarine fanboys on the forum... 

 

[lup3s]

WG don't like accurate guns .. potatoes need that awful dispersion to compensate their lack of skills ..

Call it "balancing" or something; I'd rather have more accurate BBs, so that, if I am actively dodging in CA/CLs, there's less chance to get hit by stray shells (which tend to be citadel hits...) - potato balancing?

 

/tinfoil hat

[Erik_Aukan]

2 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Just a few minutes ago, I got similar results. I was sailing my Queen Elizabeth, and managed to citadel a Tirpitz at 11km. All shots hit amidships, so it must have been perfect plunging fire. I guess all the Tirpitz wallet warriors will be crying as they get citadelled to hell and back by Vanguard wallet warriors. I suppose I'll rab the popcorn and wait for the rage from the Kriegsmarine fanboys on the forum... 

 

Right under the B - turret there is a weakness, and Warspite, having less range, tends to have her long range shots plunge down into the weaker deck armor which causes penetration and even citadel hits.

[El2aZeR]

47 minutes ago, Erik_Aukan said:

tends to have her long range shots plunge down into the weaker deck armor which causes penetration and even citadel hits

 

No, that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen to any BB in this game (barring some weird bug/feature we don't know about as we've all seen the pictures of Minotaur being somehow capable of scoring a citadel on a Monty. Heck I've done it myself once). Auto bounce deflects any shell that comes in at an angle <=30° unless overmatched. To achieve that in a QE you need ranges of over 27km.

So yeah, the "weak" deck armor that WG is advertising is actually the strongest in the game as you cannot overmatch it with any gun caliber + it's proof against most HE spam.

 

There are two ways of getting citadel hits on a KM BB.

1. Shoot at the waterline when he's turning towards you. This makes your shell slip beneath the turtleback.

2. Utilize a small gap between the turtleback and the citadel by shooting through the bow/aft.

Neither are particularly common occurrences. 

 

It's honestly amazing how many people still believe deck penetrations are possible.

[Erik_Aukan]

12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

No, that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen to any BB in this game (barring some weird bug/feature we don't know about as we've all seen the pictures of Minotaur being somehow capable of scoring a citadel on a Monty. Heck I've done it myself once). Auto bounce deflects any shell that comes in at an angle <=30° unless overmatched. To achieve that in a QE you need ranges of over 27km.

So yeah, the "weak" deck armor that WG is advertising is actually the strongest in the game as you cannot overmatch it with any gun caliber + it's proof against most HE spam.

 

There are two ways of getting citadel hits on a KM BB.

1. Shoot at the waterline when he's turning towards you. This makes your shell slip beneath the turtleback.

2. Utilize a small gap between the turtleback and the citadel by shooting through the bow/aft.

Neither are particularly common occurrences. 

 

It's honestly amazing how many people still believe deck penetrations are possible.

Accoring to your two ways, citadel damage should happen very rarely to a german BB, although I don't have the exact data from where it penetrated, visually it seems to plunge down, and it was either through the superstructure or deck. 

There is also the weak spot under the B- turret mentioned before. 

I make most of my damage from regular penetration, aiming above the armor belt.