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DB2212

Benson help

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Hi all,

 

Having played many games in DDs, I decided to buy a new toy - Benson.

The ship's fully upgraded on the B hull with a 10 point captain (PM, EM, AR and DE) and I'm everyone's handicap and not having any fun at all.

 

I only have 8 games in her and  6 of the 8 were not only losses, but completely useless losses, including at least one two "No Battle Contribution" average damage of 15K, PR of 117!!!

 

WTF am I doing wrong, apart from everything?

 

 

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Hard to say where you're doing things wrong when you don't explain what you usually do, the approach you take towards the initial stages of the game, etc.

In general however:

1- Your build is plain wrong. Any DD captain captain MUST take Concealment Expert ASAP. Your 10 point captain should have CE already. Yours doesn't and that kills one of the main features of the Benson, it's a very stealthy ship, and the stealthiest of the gunboats up to T8.

2- With CE, camo, and the concealment module (you're using the concealment module, aren't you?) you're very stealthy. 5.8km concealment radius and long duration smokes. Know your ship, and know your enemies': go ship by ship in the tech tree and look at the different ships concealment radiuses (and calculate their effective ones after CE, module, and camo because they are ALL going to be using them). In broad terms you're stealthier than anything that's not japanese. That should give you lots of information about how hard you can push, if you're the stealthiest ship in the game or not ,etc, that will (should, at least) define your decisionmaking process during the game.

3- I know a lot of people will say I'm wrong but for me PM takes a FAR 2nd place to Priority Target. When you're engaging an enemy DD you can know in just one fast look wether you should press on the engagement or just silence your guns, turn tails and disengage, depending on the number of enemies targetting you.
It also gives you valuable information about things you couldn't know otherwise; for instance, if your PT box says you're targetted by two enemies and you can see none there's an 80% chance that's an enemy japanese DD detecting you backed up by some other DD farther away. You already know what's close to you without even actually having detected anything.

4- Your two point skill selection is also terrible. To begin with you have two 2 point skills in a 10 point captain, which means you still haven't got CE, and as I told you, CE is the FIRST and FOREMOST thing you should aim to get in any DD captain.
On top of that the skill selection itself is very poor: Expert marskman is a total waste for US DDs that already have lightning quick turret traverse. Adrenaline rush is a very good skill for high experience captains but the first 2 point skill you should take should be Last Stand - an absolute must have for a destroyer because it means that when your engine and/or rudder gets KO'd, you still can move and maneouver, albeit with a penalty. Right now if your engine gets hit and you use a repair, and a 2nd hit hits your engine again (and it happens all the time) you'll end up stranded on the water unable to move. Which means you're still floating, but you're seconds away from dying. And that is only because you don't have Last Stand.

5- your 3 point skill is also wrong. DE is only a bandaid for guns that have very poor fire chances to begin with. You're devoting 3 points to have worse fire  chances than a russian DD without the skill. It's a total waste, specially when there are much more useful 3 point skills for your nationality and ship:
a)Survability Expert is another of the cornerstone skills for a DD captain. At tier 8 you're getting an extra 2800hp out of it - it does make a huge difference in lasting power and as a DD you want to survive the longest.

 

b) superintendent gives you one extra engine boost and one extra smoke charge. Given that american smokes are the best in the game, and that from tier 9 onwards you get DFAA (another consumable that is affected by superintendent) SI is an excellent pick for US DDs. I personally would pick it up once your captain is 13 points, because for me Survability Expert is still much more valuable.


Bottom point, I don't know how you're playing the ship so I can't tell you what you're doing wrong. But I can tell you that your captain build is a total disaster and is indeed one of the reasons you're dying all the time. You'll have to bite the bullet and respec your captain immediately because with a captain like that you're going to be a neverending fail in the Benson, and the Benson is a tremendously effective DD that shouldn't be wasted like that.

Respec that captain: Priority Target, Last Stand, Survability Expert, Concealment Expert. That gives you the basic initial build to excel in all destroyers (with the possible exception of soviet gunboats that don't care about concealment that much, or japanese DDs that put more emphasis on torpedo reload rather than on survability expert), and will help you a lot in the benson too.

As you move up the skills pick Superintendent, Adrenaline Rush and Preventive Maintenaince (in the order you prefer). REst of the points (3 left) are a lot more open for different playstyles. Some people go for torpedo reload, others for Basic Firing Training to boost firepower even more, and with a lot of variation in between. Some people forego Preventive Maintenaince at all and go for RFC (I personally think that's a waste but some people love that build). At any rate the 10-skill point basic build for ANY DD that's not Soviet or Japanese (and even for those is still good) is the one I listed avobe. And for doing well with the Benson it's a critical point.

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Strong points above ; Captain skills are crucial with every DD and there is very little variations that are effective.

 

But, for the Benson :

 

1.pt. PT - You will benefit a lot from the info, how many is targetting you if any, when detected.

 

2.pt LS - Well, you want your engine and rudder to be working all the time.

 

3pt. DE/TAE or SI - In US DDs the base fire chance is low, so if you are using it as a gunboat, DE would be recommended. If you are using it as a torp boat, TAE. Superinteded is always a good perk to have for that extra smoke.

 

4pt. CE - There is absolutely no question about this one. Concealment is just so important in DDs. There are exceptions, but not in the US line.

 

And that's 10 to 13 points. Next 3 points would go maybe to BFT for faster reload or SE for more HP and the rest for whatever rocks your boat. These are the most debatable perks, who wants RPF, who more range (AFT) ect. But those mentioned above are kind of the base skills to have in US DDs.

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28 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

 

 

3pt. DE/TAE or SI - In US DDs the base fire chance is low, so if you are using it as a gunboat, DE would be recommended. If you are using it as a torp boat, TAE. Superinteded is always a good perk to have for that extra smoke.

 

 

Hmmm. Would you really go for band-aiding one of the weaknesses of the US line (fire chance), or reloading your (pretty mediocre anyway) torpedoes in 1 minute 50 seconds instead of 2 minutes 2 seconds, over adding an almost extra 20% health to the ship?.

Dunno, I guess is all about preferences and to each his own, but I'd even ditch superintendent to go for SE first and foremost. Specially on a ship that it's going to see as many gunfights as Benson will, those extra 2800hp are pure gold IMHO and far more worthwhile than one extra smoke (as long as you play solo, in divisions that can and probably will be different), let alone getting those really meh torpedoes a tiny wheeny bit faster online...

For a fletcher or Gearing with a high points captain TAE makes a lot of sense as a 2nd or 3rd three point skill given their great torpedoes. Same with DE, I guess if you have a 19 point captain with 3 points you don't know where to put, that might be a viable choice but even then, I don't really see it working better than, say, BFT (I think the way to go in any game is to maximize strenghts instead of trying to half-patch weaknesses, and Demolition Expert at the best does just that while BFT is improving on an already splendid strenght of the line).

But that is for high skill point captains. Getting either of them, as a first 3 point skill, and for Benson? (or anything before that in the line, really,  that first 3 point skill used in TAE is mostly a waste in US destroyers before Tier 9 and as I already stated I'm not a big fan of DE for ships with such a low starting fire chance.). Dunno. I strongly disagree with you on that one.

The rest obviously is very solid advice

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SE is definitely a huge help for Benson, top choice for 3-point skills. BFT next, spamming is just too much fun.

 

Disagree on PT. In a DD that stealthy it's easier to assume if you're spotted you're getting fired at. On the other hand, losing turrets and torpedo tubes is a pain so PM would be my top choice for first row skills.

 

Anyway, I think aside from minor tweaks we've sorted the captain build. Let's see what the OP has to say and move on to tactics and playstyle. Personally I found Benson works quite aggressive unless you're bottom tier. At the range you're spotted you easily outgun anything you meet and you turn on a dime if you need to dodge torps or do a 180 to get back out. It's a very "seat of your pants" kind of ride, takes some practice, but is a very effective gunboat. Obviously don't YOLO every time, keep an eye on what support you and your enemy have, but it's generally your job to find enemy DDs and kick them out of caps, ideally in a seabed direction. After that, spot or find a nice place to lay a big smoke screen, point guns at a BB and tape your left click down until either he's out of HP or chickened and ran out of your range.

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35 minutes ago, RAMJB said:

 

Hmmm. Would you really go for band-aiding one of the weaknesses of the US line (fire chance), or reloading your (pretty mediocre anyway) torpedoes in 1 minute 50 seconds instead of 2 minutes 2 seconds, over adding an almost extra 20% health to the ship?.

Dunno, I guess is all about preferences and to each his own, but I'd even ditch superintendent to go for SE first and foremost. Specially on a ship that it's going to see as many gunfights as Benson will, those extra 2800hp are pure gold IMHO and far more worthwhile than one extra smoke (as long as you play solo, in divisions that can and probably will be different), let alone getting those really meh torpedoes a tiny wheeny bit faster online...

For a fletcher or Gearing with a high points captain TAE makes a lot of sense as a 2nd or 3rd three point skill given their great torpedoes. Same with DE, I guess if you have a 19 point captain with 3 points you don't know where to put, that might be a viable choice but even then, I don't really see it working better than, say, BFT (I think the way to go in any game is to maximize strenghts instead of trying to half-patch weaknesses, and Demolition Expert at the best does just that while BFT is improving on an already splendid strenght of the line).

But that is for high skill point captains. Getting either of them, as a first 3 point skill, and for Benson? (or anything before that in the line, really,  that first 3 point skill used in TAE is mostly a waste in US destroyers before Tier 9 and as I already stated I'm not a big fan of DE for ships with such a low starting fire chance.). Dunno. I strongly disagree with you on that one.

The rest obviously is very solid advice

Yes. I tested a lot of different builds and since it is not the best in knifefighting, but in smoke-pew-pew, I would and have chose the DE over SE. I did'nt experience the TAE to be better than the two mentioned, but, someone could. I have also ditched the SI over SE in US DDs, but I prefer to do so in specially in KM DDs. Why? Knifefighters benefit it more and thats what they are best in (IMO). But as you said, it is about personal preferences.

 

I loved the Fletcher when buffing all the DPM thingies, but when my friend reached T9 in his carrier, nothing, I'll repeat, nothing was more satisfying than an AA build Fletcher! That was sick. (I still have it in port tho for possible future actions.)

 

Agree on TAE being the first one not to choose of 3pt skills. But, I was recommending it before the ones that one had already taken. I played Benson as a gunboat, therefore I took DE. Percentwise that buffs most the US DDs, because the base chance is the lowest.

 

If someone prefers to use torps more than guns, then TAE is a no brainer? From Benson onward, stealth torping is very much possible. (I personally don't recommend it tho...)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

Yes. I tested a lot of different builds and since it is not the best in knifefighting, but in smoke-pew-pew,...

 

 

 

Uhm. Out of the T8 destroyers and Akizuki asides (which is an outlier which I rarely see when playing T8 DDs) Benson is by large the best outright knifefighter. It has five of the best RoF guns of the tier and even with the known issue of the slow shells, at the ranges the enemy will spot you (5.8km) that doesn't matter. It has, by far, the best turret turnrate of the tier. It's slick and maneouverable and not particularily big.

 



Let's see the opposition. I'll keep gimmicks such as hydro out of the question because we're talking about a pure brawling fight where both competitors fight until one of them leaves or dies. Hydro doesn't really matter in that scenario (other than given forewarning of any torpedo launches), and I'm rating their fighting prowess at the ranges that those fights should happen (5.8km the longest initial range - Benson's concealment). Of course this comparison involves a B-hull Benson. C hull is totally not worth it imo.

Japan - Akizuki is a dpm machine of doom and I tend to just stay away from them in any DD. It's bigger, slower and has far worse maneouverability than yours but that DPM and those 8 barrels are just too much. They're easy to counter tho: to keep them detected while beyond 5.8km, and let your buddies do the killing. But this one I'll grant, in a straight up brawl, Akizuki wins (as he does against almost anything short of a T10 gunboat)

 

Kagero doesn't stand a chance in a gunfight. So doesn't harekaze (not even with the 100mm build), tho it comes much closer.

Germany - Z-23 is....well it's many things but it's not a brawler. the 150mm guns hit like a bunch of rocks but their RoF is half of Benson's, DPM significantly lower, and have pretty slow turret traverse. The 128mm configuration is a 4-gun setup only - again it loses in raw DPM, and the turret traverse again is nowhere near being on par with the american 5 inch turrets. Z-23 is quite bigger to boot, and less maneouverable on top of it all. Benson wins.

Pan-Asia - Hsienyang is pretty much Benson but with torps that don't hit destroyers. Gunfire wise they're equals but Benson has that ace card in the sleeve if the opportunity raises to be used. Hsienyang doesn't. Almost a tie, but Benson is (very marginally) better here too.
Loyang has one less gun than Benson. Unless you're running Benson's C hull (and noone in his right mind would), Benson outright wins.

Russia- Ognevoi is mostly oriented towards torpedoboating and it's gun power (at the ranges it can detect a Benson) is significantly lower. One barrel less, slower rate of fire. Benson wins.  

 

Kiev ... kiev is a problem. In raw firepower it's almost on the same ballpark at close ranges (one more barrel yet noticeably lower rate of fire) while turret traverse is not in american levels, but more than enough to keep track of harsh maneouvers and evasives. It's significantly sturdy and of course is exceedingly fast...but on the other hand has twice the rudder shift of Benson and a larger turning radius. I'd say it's very even here, yet not really worth trying it as even if you win he'd have smashed such a large chunk of your hp that you'll be crippled for the rest of the game...but again like with akizuki (better in fact as you can see a kiev much farther), you can see a Kiev far before he sees you so you can try and get out of dogde before he does, keep him spotted, and let your teammates do the heavylifting and either outright killing him or scare him away. other than that, it's a tie - skill will define the winner of this one.

And finally:

Kidd...Ok, this one's better. But only because it's OP as all hecks in hell and straight up P2W.

 

So all in all I'd say Benson is inferior in brawling only against Akizuki (and then again, which DD short of a Kaba or a specialized gunboat Gearing build isn't) and Kidd (which is straight up P2W, and I do own one so I kinda know it is XD), roughly equal to a Kiev, slightly superior to Hsienyang, and better than all the others DDs on it's tier.

I'd qualify that as one of the best brawlers for a T8...but then again, that's just my opinion ;).

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1 hour ago, RAMJB said:

 

 

-snip-

Yes these all are very true, but, in reality, what happens when you are in cap and it gets contested? It is a matter of concealment. 0,1km is relevant. Ok, so Z-23 dont have the advantage. But, if you get in to gunfight, what happens next? Not every time, but very often the opponent uses smokes (if you dont yet) when opening fire and you are detected by others and she gets concealed. Thats where the hydro kicks in. It depends on how far away you are at the beginning, but lets assume you ran into Benson. So she is about 5,8km away. Full speed ahead and pop the hydro. At 5km, drop the gas and smoke up. Proceed with 1/4 speed and voila, you spotted the enemy DD and you are the one in smokes firing the shoet out of her. She torped? No problem. Hydro will spot them. You torp? Ok, make her leave the cap and smokes. Ether way you will most likely be the winner.

 

You also mentioned the Kidd. I do not have personal experience about her, but, there is also LoYang. That thing has US guns and KM cruiser hydro. OP? Yes. Do I love it. Yes. I guess having LoYang opened my eyes to the hydro in DDs and how to use it to make it count in knifefights. When you use it right, the DPM / gun issue is no more valid. But to compare the LoYang to KM DDs, LoYang wins hands down. I really wished to stay with the silver ships in this one.

 

The why not PA DDs? They got radar, right? Well, the thing is that you need them both : Smokes and radar / hydro to do what I just explained. PA:s have to choose.

 

Now Akizuki. That thing is a beast when knifefighting. But the same principal applies to her against a DD with hydro. When there is no hydro involved, that one really cuts the mustard.

 

With Benson in order to win knifefights, you should be able to hit targets. That can be an issue. But there is no way to win a fight against a hydro DD if the opponent uses it right. This may be a problem with the opponent skills, but I tend to win more knifefights in Kiev vs any DD without hydro than in Benson. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Benson. It is an excellent DD and can do a lot of things.

 

Every other case is more or less dependant on the skills of the player. KM DDs tend to ease up in many fields so getting into DDing will be easier with them. Then you can choose from the aspects of your liking the next line to go for. After that, one might find himself in this forum debating about DDs. ;)

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16 hours ago, RAMJB said:

Hard to say where you're doing things wrong when you don't explain what you usually do, the approach you take towards the initial stages of the game, etc.

In general however:

1- Your build is plain wrong. Any DD captain captain MUST take Concealment Expert ASAP. Your 10 point captain should have CE already. Yours doesn't and that kills one of the main features of the Benson, it's a very stealthy ship, and the stealthiest of the gunboats up to T8.

2- With CE, camo, and the concealment module (you're using the concealment module, aren't you?) you're very stealthy. 5.8km concealment radius and long duration smokes. Know your ship, and know your enemies': go ship by ship in the tech tree and look at the different ships concealment radiuses (and calculate their effective ones after CE, module, and camo because they are ALL going to be using them). In broad terms you're stealthier than anything that's not japanese. That should give you lots of information about how hard you can push, if you're the stealthiest ship in the game or not ,etc, that will (should, at least) define your decisionmaking process during the game.

3- I know a lot of people will say I'm wrong but for me PM takes a FAR 2nd place to Priority Target. When you're engaging an enemy DD you can know in just one fast look wether you should press on the engagement or just silence your guns, turn tails and disengage, depending on the number of enemies targetting you.
It also gives you valuable information about things you couldn't know otherwise; for instance, if your PT box says you're targetted by two enemies and you can see none there's an 80% chance that's an enemy japanese DD detecting you backed up by some other DD farther away. You already know what's close to you without even actually having detected anything.

4- Your two point skill selection is also terrible. To begin with you have two 2 point skills in a 10 point captain, which means you still haven't got CE, and as I told you, CE is the FIRST and FOREMOST thing you should aim to get in any DD captain.
On top of that the skill selection itself is very poor: Expert marskman is a total waste for US DDs that already have lightning quick turret traverse. Adrenaline rush is a very good skill for high experience captains but the first 2 point skill you should take should be Last Stand - an absolute must have for a destroyer because it means that when your engine and/or rudder gets KO'd, you still can move and maneouver, albeit with a penalty. Right now if your engine gets hit and you use a repair, and a 2nd hit hits your engine again (and it happens all the time) you'll end up stranded on the water unable to move. Which means you're still floating, but you're seconds away from dying. And that is only because you don't have Last Stand.

5- your 3 point skill is also wrong. DE is only a bandaid for guns that have very poor fire chances to begin with. You're devoting 3 points to have worse fire  chances than a russian DD without the skill. It's a total waste, specially when there are much more useful 3 point skills for your nationality and ship:
a)Survability Expert is another of the cornerstone skills for a DD captain. At tier 8 you're getting an extra 2800hp out of it - it does make a huge difference in lasting power and as a DD you want to survive the longest.

 

b) superintendent gives you one extra engine boost and one extra smoke charge. Given that american smokes are the best in the game, and that from tier 9 onwards you get DFAA (another consumable that is affected by superintendent) SI is an excellent pick for US DDs. I personally would pick it up once your captain is 13 points, because for me Survability Expert is still much more valuable.


Bottom point, I don't know how you're playing the ship so I can't tell you what you're doing wrong. But I can tell you that your captain build is a total disaster and is indeed one of the reasons you're dying all the time. You'll have to bite the bullet and respec your captain immediately because with a captain like that you're going to be a neverending fail in the Benson, and the Benson is a tremendously effective DD that shouldn't be wasted like that.

Respec that captain: Priority Target, Last Stand, Survability Expert, Concealment Expert. That gives you the basic initial build to excel in all destroyers (with the possible exception of soviet gunboats that don't care about concealment that much, or japanese DDs that put more emphasis on torpedo reload rather than on survability expert), and will help you a lot in the benson too.

As you move up the skills pick Superintendent, Adrenaline Rush and Preventive Maintenaince (in the order you prefer). REst of the points (3 left) are a lot more open for different playstyles. Some people go for torpedo reload, others for Basic Firing Training to boost firepower even more, and with a lot of variation in between. Some people forego Preventive Maintenaince at all and go for RFC (I personally think that's a waste but some people love that build). At any rate the 10-skill point basic build for ANY DD that's not Soviet or Japanese (and even for those is still good) is the one I listed avobe. And for doing well with the Benson it's a critical point.

My thanks to all who offered their thoughts, particulalry RAMJB.

 

It occurred to me earlier today that I didnt have CE and really should have it. I didn't realise just how poor the rest of my choices had been.

This is what happens when you drunkenly buy a ship, look for a spare Captain and re-train for another ship without thinking about existing skills :Smile_hiding:

I would normally go look at shipcomrade.com but have completely failed to do this.

 

PT isn't a skill I use on any of my ships, I generally go with the "I'm getting shot at, it doesn't matter how many are shooting at me" attitude but I can see your arguement for it.

 

I started playing too aggressively and then not aggresively enough. I'll go re-skill to suggested skills but I fear I've lost confidence in these few games. Maybe some time in Co-op will benefit me.

 

Thanks again to all for your advice, it's appreciated :Smile_honoring:

 

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8 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

Yes these all are very true, but, in reality, what happens when you are in cap and it gets contested?


I left hydro out of the question because on a fair, honest, and straight up brawl is a minor factor. If whatever you're fighting pops hydro, you just disengage and that's the end of it. Nobody wins the brawl (technically they do because they hold the ground while you retreat, but it's a rather minor loss that you can compensate by coming down when said hydro is in cooldown).

Case in point: If it's a Loyang - I just turn tails unless I have massive team support that includes radar ships. I'll engage him later when his hydro is down - and then he won't stand a chance for as a gunship I'm superior. I treat them as I treat Z-52s , in the initial rush you simply don't contest them, and you can spot them a bit before they are in hydro range so they should get little or no advantage out of it. Key of a gunship is to engage in YOUR terms, not in the enemies', and that accounts for not letting them use their advantages against you. 

Z-23 is more or less the same story, but here the german ship is hampered by a much shorter hydro radius which makes smoking up and retreat far easier than with either Z-52 or Loyang. 

In general hydro just means you can't just smoke up and park - you have to immediately egress out of the area their hydro covers. It's never a true brawl deciding factor if you decide not to play by the Hydro DD's rules, but by YOUR rules. Yes, you momentarily are forced to retreat but hydro doesn't stay up 24/7 and if you time things right and come back when he's unable to use it, all he has left is his ship to fight, and as a brawler, neither Loyang nor Z-23 are a match for Benson.


Don't take me wrong, I think Hydro is tremendously powerful for a DD, specially in domination gamemodes, and I do rate LoYang as the best T8 DD just because he has it. But in a straight up DD vs DD encounter, it has much less real worth than it might seem at first glance as long as the enemy just doesn't play to your advantages.


About Kidd - I do own it. It's a flecher with a single Benson torpedo launcher and a pretty decent heal, which gives it a ridiculous staying power. And DFAA. It's as OP as Loyang, just in a whole different way.

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1 hour ago, DB2212 said:


It occurred to me earlier today that I didnt have CE and really should have it. I didn't realise just how poor the rest of my choices had been.

 

Trust me, out of all those choices the lack of CE is the worst. Closely followed by the lack of Last Stand. You can get away with not speccing for other things that are important, but those two in a destroyer like Benson are must haves that if you don't spec them, you're going to be pretty much a walking (or sailing) corpse from gamestart.

 

1 hour ago, DB2212 said:

I started playing too aggressively and then not aggresively enough. I'll go re-skill to suggested skills but I fear I've lost confidence in these few games. Maybe some time in Co-op will benefit me.

AI is nothing like real players but if think you need it, go for it. At any rate what you mention (too agressive vs too passive) is a very thin line DDs walk on all the time (or at least they should, to be used to max effectiveness). The process of learning when to be agressive and when to bug out is probably what sets the widest gap between excellent DD players and potatoes, and accordingly takes time (and a lot of fails) to learn. I myself find myself erring towards being far more agressive than I should most of the time, for instance. I still have a way to go before I'm confident in my own decision making, and now and then I get into situations I should've been able to avoid with a bit more awareness and better choice making. But you learn as you go, don't lose confidence if you mess up, just stop for a second and thing what went wrong, when did it go wrong (sometimes it's a decision you took minutes ago), and what you should've done instead. That goes a long way in learning how to DD well.

That, and watch stuff in youtube. Personally I think the best tactical advice/insight/tips you'll find watching Flamu videos in youtube, but most CCs are pretty decent in giving tips and showing what works and what doesn't, and probably will set you in the right direction to enjoy the game a lot more by becoming better ;).

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6 hours ago, RAMJB said:


-snip-

 

Ofc hydro will not help when having a fight in open waters. And in that case, usually the winner is the one with ; Best DPM, most HP and / or best manouvres. A solid combination of those.

 

Agree on the hydro thing, but most of the time, as you said, it will make the opponent leave momentarily, but, usually that is enough to get the cap. Only after that things have changed and you need to def (the cap) instead of capping and that changes everything. And this ofc is the time when there will be more decisions : Do you need to cap more or is def enough? Should you push in order to get the enemy DD or to do max damage to supporting fleet? Would it be smarter to spot and avoid contact? All that can be made simultaneously, but which is the priority determines your next action. I still think that the harder decision is the enemy DD's to make and you got the advantage.

 

Radar is the only viable option to hard(mega)counter a hydro DD in cap zone, when your own DD can't handle it. At least that is how my days have been ruined most of the time. I have ran to a player that simply is too good for me, no matter what DD I play with, but the radar is by far the most dangerous aspect there is, when contesting a cap or being the one who is first in. Some DD players will outplay me even with tier or two lower DDs because they are so good.

 

I think I would like the Kidd, since I loved the Fletcher with AA build. I bet the Kidd would shredd T8 planes like a MF.

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