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EgyptOverseer

Matchmaking - Double CV

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Anyone else sick and tired of getting these? Especially when it's T5 with T6...

 

Can't remember the last time it didn't devolve into one of the teams steamrolling the other... It's particularly painful trying to play a normal game against a team with air superiority as you end up dodging squadron after squadron, as the enemy peppers you with shells and you can do absolutely nothing in return...

 

Anyone here disagrees and really loves getting into double CV matches? More often than not, when I get one I know it's pointless to even try, but now you also will get banned if you stop playing, so are we expected to endure 20 minutes of fun and interactivity as you get targeted by never ending squadrons you cannot counter and your team gets taken down one by one?

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Coordinate yourself with the other CV. Or at least try to.

It is not a 1vs2 but a 2vs2.

 

I know, I know, Tier 5 and 6 CVs together in one match sucks for the tier 5s because of the lack of manual attacks. Just try to make the best out of it. Everyone gets MM which sucks from time to time.

Btw:

9 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

More often than not, when I get one I know it's pointless to even try, but now you also will get banned if you stop playing

Throwing a game because "ima not like MM" even though you are fully aware of all possible scenarios that can happen is a D to the I to the C to the K move and should have been (severely) punished at any time.

So man up and get through it or don't play tier 5 CVs by either not playing (regular) CVs at all or skipping them with free exp.

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I love double CV matches in low tiers. Two less ships I have to worry about because lol auto drop.

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13 hours ago, Tungstonid said:

Coordinate yourself with the other CV. Or at least try to.

It is not a 1vs2 but a 2vs2.

 

I know, I know, Tier 5 and 6 CVs together in one match sucks for the tier 5s because of the lack of manual attacks. Just try to make the best out of it. Everyone gets MM which sucks from time to time.

Btw:

Throwing a game because "ima not like MM" even though you are fully aware of all possible scenarios that can happen is a D to the I to the C to the K move and should have been (severely) punished at any time.

So man up and get through it or don't play tier 5 CVs by either not playing (regular) CVs at all or skipping them with free exp.

Thanks dude, but I am not talking from a CV perspective. Like you said, at least CVs can coordinate, but what about the other ships?

 

Just had one where it was a domination match and the last surviving friendly CA goes to the edge of the map chasing one CV as the BBs are left to cap for themselves. We managed to nuke their entire fleet bar 2 nearly dead CAs and one nearly dead DD, but because our team lost the T5 CV at the start of the match and the other T6S CV had to fend off for himself we ended up having to pull a monster game just to even have a chance. In the end, enemy wins with all caps, surviving CA is so far from the picture that he doesn't even get to reach a cap before the score gets to 1000 (he had more helath than that of the 2 enemy CAs and 1 enemy DD combined, mind you), enemy CVs have practically all planes alive and more than a Kraken between them, and I end up with minus 21 karma because the brain-dead CA was in a division.

 

But this is beyond the point. The stopping point was about being in the situation of being the team that has no AA left and is just free food. What is even the point trying then? I can be on either side and still feel like it was 20 minutes wasted.

 

13 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

I love double CV matches in low tiers. Two less ships I have to worry about because lol auto drop.

What about the example I have of T6 with T5? Still love it then? :cap_yes:

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3 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

What about the example I have of T6 with T5? Still love it then? :cap_yes:

 

Sure, CVs don't become a viable threat until T7+, tech tree wise even T8+ as Ranger is still horrible and Hiryu suffers from having T6 TBs. Independence is effortlessly defeated by a bit of maneuvering and positioning, Ryujo is slightly more annoying but neutered almost just as easily. And considering their incredibly low reserves (1 extra strike wave and that's it) and how horrible T5-6 MM usually is it also means there is plenty of AA cover to go around. A single Gneisenau will murder entire strikes on her own if just a bit is spec'd into AA.

Either way it's 2 ships less I have to worry about. If you find yourself under constant air attack without being capable of depleting the horrendously low reserves of T6 CVs you have horribly misplayed.

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Well in all cases cvs are either utterly over powered or utterly crap, double cv really depends on the cv, I faced a double Saipan, with a stock ranger who didn't know how to strafe, strangely enough I didn't kill myself and we actually won. So even in a the worst situation 2 competent saipans wont affect the game as much as people think so I am in favour of double cvs at all tiers, having a better chance of getting a good cv player on your side as well as improving spotting when potato dds dont want to, and free xp for everyone! The more planes the merrier. 

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16 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Sure, CVs don't become a viable threat until T7+, tech tree wise even T8+ as Ranger is still horrible and Hiryu suffers from having T6 TBs. Independence is effortlessly defeated by a bit of maneuvering and positioning, Ryujo is slightly more annoying but neutered almost just as easily. And considering their incredibly low reserves (1 extra strike wave and that's it) and how horrible T5-6 MM usually is it also means there is plenty of AA cover to go around. A single Gneisenau will murder entire strikes on her own if just a bit is spec'd into AA.

Either way it's 2 ships less I have to worry about. If you find yourself under constant air attack without being capable of depleting the horrendously low reserves of T6 CVs you have horribly misplayed.

Interesting. I am yet to see a ship with decent AA (besides the Cleveland) that is able to murder squadrons. Hell, even in my AA specked Iowa I struggle to take down more than a couple of planes per square per strike. Only came close against a T7 CV.

 

I can only concur that my experience of AA interaction must be very different from yours. I can be in a T6 CA with DefAA active and its a long time before a T6 plane is shot down. I. Not denying that some ships have good AA, but I seriously doubt that a Gneisenau that is "a bit spec'd" for AA as you say can murder entire T8/T9 squadrons as you say, but I haven't got one so I can't say for definite. On the other hand I had a full AA spec'd Colorado that is supposed to have better AA that the Gneisenau and never had an instance of such AA devastation occur. All it takes is a bit of HE spam and even the most AA spec'd ship is powerless to fend of AA strikes.

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It's ok as long as you aren't pink and your "colourblind" "fiend" in the 2nd CV doesn't know how to strife :Smile_teethhappy:

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12 hours ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

Well in all cases cvs are either utterly over powered or utterly crap, double cv really depends on the cv, I faced a double Saipan, with a stock ranger who didn't know how to strafe, strangely enough I didn't kill myself and we actually won. So even in a the worst situation 2 competent saipans wont affect the game as much as people think so I am in favour of double cvs at all tiers, having a better chance of getting a good cv player on your side as well as improving spotting when potato dds dont want to, and free xp for everyone! The more planes the merrier. 

Good on you buddy. :cap_like:

 

Glad someone enjoys it, because those matches only make me want to stop playing.

 

I have had a couple of matches like the ones you used as an example, but the surviving friendly CVs were great players and deserved the compliment I gave them fully.

 

12 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

It's ok as long as you aren't pink and your "colourblind" "fiend" in the 2nd CV doesn't know how to strife :Smile_teethhappy:

Lol

 

I stopped worrying about pinks a long time ago since I realised it happens sometimes. It's more often for me to see pink players at the top of the XP table in the end than not nowadays, but it may just be because I stopped caring about that and that may have squeued my perception.

 

The T6 with T5 double CV match does however suffer badly from the straffing disadvantage. It's similar to a match where one team has all the radar cruisers and the other has none, except at least on surface fights there are other ways to have an impact. When it comes to aerial confrontations I see no counter strategy. Only another aerial team is able to reliably attack planes. From surface you can only pray to get them if they get within your AA range.

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1 minute ago, EgyptOverseer said:

I am yet to see a ship with decent AA (besides the Cleveland) that is able to murder squadrons.

 

Well, you're in for a ride. At T9+ almost any ship, even some DDs, can murder entire strikes if specialized for AA.

Personally I can kill about half of a Taiho TB strike before they drop in my Missouri, then another quarter as they exit. If I stack that with just one more ship with decent AA then I essentially become invulnerable to air strikes and I don't even use the AA dps upgrade nor MAA. This is the whole thing about CVs, you're supposed to play with your teammates, not go wandering off alone.

 

Problem with low/mid tier cruisers is that their AA power is usually lower than the one found on BBs, DFAA really being their saving grace and that's only for the spread. A 300% damage boost for a base value of 0 is still 0 after all.

Gneisenau can murder entire T6-7 strikes fairly easily with a few AA skills/upgrades, anything above that becomes rather dicey. Colorado has about the same base AA but most of it concentrated in 40mm mounts, which will inevitably get broken more easily by HE fire. Gneisenau focuses far more on her long range guns which have much more survivability and benefit a lot more from MAA.

On the other hand Colorado is also much more maneuverable and presents a much smaller target, so it kinda evens out.

 

Still, T4-7 tech tree CVs aren't too much to worry about even if they come in pairs, Hiryu being the only true threat of the lot. On the other hand T7 premium CVs are extremely dangerous if their captains know what they're doing.

 

Though I do agree that WG should restrict CVs to 1 per team if only because they made the incredibly stupid decision to take away alt attacks for low tier CVs.

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20 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Lol

 

I stopped worrying about pinks a long time ago since I realised it happens sometimes. It's more often for me to see pink players at the top of the XP table in the end than not nowadays, but it may just be because I stopped caring about that and that may have squeued my perception.

 

The T6 with T5 double CV match does however suffer badly from the straffing disadvantage. It's similar to a match where one team has all the radar cruisers and the other has none, except at least on surface fights there are other ways to have an impact. When it comes to aerial confrontations I see no counter strategy. Only another aerial team is able to reliably attack planes. From surface you can only pray to get them if they get within your AA range.

 

The point was that pink and red planes aren't that different, especially if the player has some kind of colourblindness :Smile_teethhappy: I've had a couple of times (altho that was quite a long time ago) of the 2nd CV strafing my bombers and then being surprised about the team damage warning in chat

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7 hours ago, Tungstonid said:

Coordinate yourself with the other CV.

lol are you serious ? :P when i play saipan , always my team 2 nd cv total mong that auto or have 0 brains at all lol ^^

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1 minute ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

lol are you serious ? :P when i play saipan , always my team 2 nd cv total mong that auto or have 0 brains at all lol ^^

If you can't communicate with your ally and/or he is an utter failure, use him as bait :P

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3 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

If you can't communicate with your ally and/or he is an utter failure, use him as bait :P

yeah well told :P mainly i do solo carry while he sending planes around border XD

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What I hate is having a CV player who refuses to spot the DDs in the cap while he sends his planes to some isolated BB.

Specially the ones who ignore the chat / map ping ... even if you are polite.

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What I dont understand is why double CV is still a thing. I mean CV players are rarely even in lower tiers. So why does this game not create 2 matches with one CV on each side instead of double CV games ?

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Becasue sometimes a double CV game is fun,  especially if you get comparable skill levels between the CV players 

 

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10 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Sure, CVs don't become a viable threat until T7+, tech tree wise even T8+ as Ranger is still horrible and Hiryu suffers from having T6 TBs. Independence is effortlessly defeated by a bit of maneuvering and positioning, Ryujo is slightly more annoying but neutered almost just as easily. And considering their incredibly low reserves (1 extra strike wave and that's it) and how horrible T5-6 MM usually is it also means there is plenty of AA cover to go around. A single Gneisenau will murder entire strikes on her own if just a bit is spec'd into AA.

Either way it's 2 ships less I have to worry about. If you find yourself under constant air attack without being capable of depleting the horrendously low reserves of T6 CVs you have horribly misplayed.

 

Your words have no connection with reality. I don't see in game what you are saying here. After many thousands of battles you probably have the skills to make tier 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 CVs a negligible thread for you  but that will never happen for 80% of the players so there is no point to discuss such ideal situations. What I see is that, I with CV have maybe even 50% influence on the result of the game and the other 11 players have another 50%.

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12 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

More often than not, when I get one I know it's pointless to even try, but now you also will get banned if you stop playing, so are we expected to endure 20 minutes of fun and interactivity as you get targeted by never ending squadrons you cannot counter and your team gets taken down one by one?

Oh?

I haven't seen anything like that announced on an official firstparty WoWS Forum/Channel so you don't need to fear anything yet. Still not very nice though....

Easy solution is playing high tiers.

As far as I know a double CV game is impossible for Tier VIII+ CVs (even if there were enough in the queue) :fish_book:

Also like El2azer said under Tier VIII the CVs usualy are rather easy to avoid by sticking together and the only real scary CVs in Midtier are Saipans, Kagas and Hiryu.

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6 hours ago, nambr9 said:

What I hate is having a CV player who refuses to spot the DDs in the cap while he sends his planes to some isolated BB.

Specially the ones who ignore the chat / map ping ... even if you are polite.

This. As much as I dislike getting spotted by CVs when I play DD, it's even worse when the opposing CV supports his team while yours doesn't. Early spotting is so crucial and spotting in bases is downright game decisive. Imagine being a slow BB. You can easily waste large portions of the match because you have to gamble where the enemy is going. Meanwhile, the enemy knows exactly what to expect. This means they can take the opportunity of a reduced fleet.

 

I always try to ask politely for plane spotting, but it rarely pans out. For some reason CV players rarely respond, even if I compliment them in chat when they play well.

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14 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

The point was that pink and red planes aren't that different, especially if the player has some kind of colourblindness :Smile_teethhappy: I've had a couple of times (altho that was quite a long time ago) of the 2nd CV strafing my bombers and then being surprised about the team damage warning in chat

 

And then we have the not uncommon tactic of tying up an enemy squadron with one of yours, and then strafing the dickens out of both of them.

A viable tactic when you only have to worry about the numbers on the result screen, sure... but I've tried to imagine the mood in the flight mess afterward. Awkward.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Qs8dHthqM

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15 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Interesting. I am yet to see a ship with decent AA (besides the Cleveland) that is able to murder squadrons. Hell, even in my AA specked Iowa I struggle to take down more than a couple of planes per square per strike. Only came close against a T7 CV.

 

I can only concur that my experience of AA interaction must be very different from yours. I can be in a T6 CA with DefAA active and its a long time before a T6 plane is shot down. I. Not denying that some ships have good AA, but I seriously doubt that a Gneisenau that is "a bit spec'd" for AA as you say can murder entire T8/T9 squadrons as you say, but I haven't got one so I can't say for definite. On the other hand I had a full AA spec'd Colorado that is supposed to have better AA that the Gneisenau and never had an instance of such AA devastation occur. All it takes is a bit of HE spam and even the most AA spec'd ship is powerless to fend of AA strikes.

Do you ctrl+click the squad you want to take down? That barely duble the firepower of your aa and allow you to chose which squad hit 

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8 minutes ago, Torped1ne said:

Do you ctrl+click the squad you want to take down? That barely duble the firepower of your aa and allow you to chose which squad hit 

Always manually select them. Like he said, double of a low number is still a low number.

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