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KarmaQU_EU

High Tier Cruiser vs BB balance, Uptier, and Citadels.

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It used to be a time when BB citadels were in positions where at T10, a cruiser could reliably citadel a BB when it was sailing broadside, under 5km extremely close range, and if the CA player had knowledge of where to shoot.

 

However, according to someone I heard from recently, this is no longer the case. This person is upset that the ability for Cruisers to punish BBs up close was removed, as well as lamenting how in general, Cruisers at high tiers have it rough, especially when uptiered e.g. T8-9 cruisers vs T8-10 BBs.

 

The Cruiser vs BB balance has always been a hot topic of debate for this game, but it is not a simple topic ... during our brief discussion on this topic, the person and I found many supplementary issues which complicate the issue:

 

Map design, 

Maneuverability of ships, 

Randoms versus Competitive play,

Should tactics be Deterministic on the outcome,

Properly rewarding Skill,

Average damage vs. Burst damage vs. True damage (BBs ignore armour),

Class counters and its current state in WoWs,

Overpopularity of BBs,

Tier disparity and balance, especially in consideration of uptiering

Extended effects of changes on one class effecting tactics of the whole team, e.g. how some tactics rely on one class to take point.

Accessibility of the game to all players.

 

While these are mostly considered in light of Cruisers vs. BB, the issues may be relevant to other ships as well, such as DDs being uptiered, as well in as on the game in general. All in all, because we both held extremely different positions and perspectives on this issue and how WG handles it, we were unable to reach a conclusion. There were also too many factors involved to address in a timely manner under one discussion.

 

The points listed above were combined from our individual arguments, some points more relevant to one person's argument than others. However since I did not bother to ask for his permission on creating this topic, due to privacy, I cannot divulge any additional details on the discussion.

 

The forums are welcome to chime in on what they perceive of this issue.

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[ADRIA]
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41 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

according to someone I heard from recently

278p6i.jpg

 

 

Sry, I just had to :Smile_teethhappy:

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[YARRR]
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Spoiler

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2018.03.27_

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2018.03.27_

 

Yamato/Monty citadel distance: ~1.3km

Iowa citadel distance: ~3km

NC citadel distance: ~5km

Neither Izumo nor Amagi can take citadel hits due to turtleback. You can however break their turrets at close range which is kinda funny.

To achieve citadel hits on Monty, Iowa and NC you need to aim for the waterline. Ranges given above also need flat broadsides, if you get closer you will be able to score citadel hits at slight angles.

 

I imagine Moskva will have a much easier time than my DM due to Russian Bias stalinium shells I mean, superior penetration power.

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[UNICS]
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I presume that this is another one of those "Remove/Limit/Nerf BB`s"  threads.

And long story short none of this is going to happen because there must be a class for new, and below avarage players so the cash will keep flowing.

And yes my Roon got deleted from 20km away by some random BBaby.

And yes the shells came almost directly from behind me just to pop a triple citadel but who cares...

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9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:
  Reveal hidden contents

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2018.03.27_

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2018.03.27_

 

Yamato/Monty citadel distance: ~1.3km

Iowa citadel distance: ~3km

NC citadel distance: ~5km

Neither Izumo nor Amagi can take citadel hits due to turtleback. You can however break their turrets at close range which is kinda funny.

To achieve citadel hits on Monty, Iowa and NC you need to aim for the waterline. Ranges given above also need flat broadsides, if you get closer you will be able to score citadel hits at slight angles.

 

I imagine Moskva will have a much easier time than my DM due to Russian Bias stalinium shells I mean, superior penetration power.

He did mention Moskva has an easier time getting T10 cits at the 5km mark.

But he wants other cruisers, like DM and Zao, to be able to do that too.

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11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yamato/Monty citadel distance: ~1.3km

Iowa citadel distance: ~3km

NC citadel distance: ~5km

Neither Izumo nor Amagi can take citadel hits due to turtleback. You can however break their turrets at close range which is kinda funny.

To achieve citadel hits on Monty, Iowa and NC you need to aim for the waterline. Ranges given above also need flat broadsides, if you get closer you will be able to score citadel hits at slight angles.

 

I imagine Moskva will have a much easier time than my DM due to Russian Bias stalinium shells I mean, superior penetration power.

Nice info here. I had always wanted some guideline, since practicing Cruisers now. Thaaanks! :Smile_smile:

 

Now that out of the way it leaves just one tiinsy-weensy complication to my plan, namely: How on earth do i get to get to within 1,3 km of an enemy  Monty or a Yamato , while constantly spotted by enemy DD's in an open high tier map alive so I can citadel it?:cap_like:

 

Ima gonna need a real good ole' fashioned Klingon Cloaking device aren't I? :cap_haloween:

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[-DSA-]
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First, German BBs had these (cosistently) unreachable citadels; it was said it would be their national flavor.

 

Then citadels on US battleships were lowered. It was said it would make gameplay less static.

 

Then RN battleships got underwater citadels right from the start. It was said they would be too squishy otherwise, and they would suffer from heavy penetration damage anyway.

 

 

Conclusion: Wargaming always does the right thing; otherwise it would be blasphemy. Look at average BB numbers per battle and enjoy their wisdom. Play hightier cruiser and enjoy their wisdom even more.

 

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3 minutes ago, Oely001 said:

Conclusion: Wargaming always does the right thing; otherwise it would be blasphemy. Look at average BB numbers per battle and enjoy their wisdom. Play hightier cruiser and enjoy their wisdom even more.

I do that all the time (but that's only because I am a deranged masochist).. SOooo Wisdom = LOL-Pen? :Smile_teethhappy:

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