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SeaWolf7

Seperate detection sybol for Radar/Hydro

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I wouldn't mind separate icons or icons overriding the ordinary detection icon. It would make things easier. ...but I don't think it's a must either. Games aren't automatically better by providing more info to the players. Sometimes some guesswork goes into the equation and you need to work with the info you've got, not because it can't be programmed, but because it's in the design to make you do good estimates and decisions.

I'm fine with it either way, but giving this info for free would certainly help dd players to some extent.

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3 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

That's pretty much the only time the extra information would be useful though. Even then, you have no guarantee that you won't be deleted once you back off from the island cover.

You never have any guarantee you won't be deleted once you back off from island cover. What you do know is roughly how long time you have and how far you have to move to get out of detection. Those are always vital bits of information.

 

3 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

I could make the same argument with the situational awareness skill: why does it not tell you which ship is spotting you? Why should a cruiser not be allowed to know whether it is a destroyer or an enemy cruiser that is spotting it?

I'd rather have the game reward game knowledge (detection ranges, hydro/radar ships, radar, spots, etc.) then just give everything "for free".

That's not the same argument. Being spotted isn't (necessarily) misplaying. The argument was that misplaying is a reason to keep information from the player. If they misplay that's a better reason to give them more information so they have a better ground for learning how to avoid it the next time. "Stay away," isn't nearly as helpful as "stay away from hydro". The more information you have about what causes you problems, the better equipped you are at learning how to deal with it.

 

I also like rewarding game knowledge. Let's remove situational awareness completely. That's just free information. Same goes for RL and IFA.

 

3 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

But this won't help with that though. The destroyers that rush into hydro/radar range without information are not "yolo'ing"; they are being suicidal. The same goes for destroyer players who smoke up inside capture zones without vision. Yes, they may get away with it, but the game does not give them an extra warning regarding incoming torpedoes.

Suicidal or yoloing; I don't differ the two. Still, it's the same thing, bad players are not a reason to keep information away from them. Other hazards isn't a reason either. Besides, you do get warnings from torpedoes, once they're in spotting range.

 

3 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

... players who find themselves in a relevant situation will not benefit much from it, as the issue is not that they cannot differentiate between the two consumables. The issue is that they ended up in that situation to begin with (well, hard cover excluded but I assume that the player chose said hard cover to negate the hydro/radar threat).

This I disagree with. Being spotted by radar or hydro isn't the problem. It's learning how to deal with it when it happens. Sometimes it's accidental, and sometimes it's deliberate.

 

2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

I wouldn't mind separate icons or icons overriding the ordinary detection icon. It would make things easier. ...but I don't think it's a must either. Games aren't automatically better by providing more info to the players. Sometimes some guesswork goes into the equation and you need to work with the info you've got, not because it can't be programmed, but because it's in the design to make you do good estimates and decisions.

I'm fine with it either way, but giving this info for free would certainly help dd players to some extent.

Showing whether it's radar or hydro is more information, but hiding information just because you have other information just feels wrong. You know you're detected by hydro, and then you get hardspotted, so suddenly you don't get to know if you're still spotted by hydro. I find that contrary to good game design.

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3 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

Showing whether it's radar or hydro is more information, but hiding information just because you have other information just feels wrong. You know you're detected by hydro, and then you get hardspotted, so suddenly you don't get to know if you're still spotted by hydro. I find that contrary to good game design.

I agree on the override thing. Seems more intuitive to not lose the radar/hydro icon when radar/hydro is still active.

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1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

If they misplay that's a better reason to give them more information so they have a better ground for learning how to avoid it the next time. "Stay away," isn't nearly as helpful as "stay away from hydro".

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this. You still don't know which ship it is that's spotting you and as such, you don't really learn anything. The end result is the same: stay away from common hydro/radar traps. If you on the other hand already know the location of the hydro/radar ship, the course of action should be clear. 

 

Additionally, I'm not convinced that different symbols will help at all, since we still have DDs which rush into radar range and for some reason don't know why they are spotted. Sure, they will know the method (how), but not by whom or the reason why (too close to the island, too close to a common radar spot, etc.). So what will the lesson be? Stay away from common radar/hydro spots (which is the same as before).

 

1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

Let's remove situational awareness completely. That's just free information.

 

It is, but contrary to radar/hydro, it is information which you cannot obtain otherwise, nor can you play around it (camping at max range excluded). Same goes for RL/RPF, but I would rather see that skill removed due to it's binary nature (though that is another discussion entirely).

 

1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

Showing whether it's radar or hydro is more information, but hiding information just because you have other information just feels wrong. You know you're detected by hydro, and then you get hardspotted, so suddenly you don't get to know if you're still spotted by hydro. I find that contrary to good game design.

 

Indeed. It should be rather easy to implement as well: the primary reason of detection could be as it is now, but the secondary reason could be added as a miniature icon next to the regular icon.

 

1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

This I disagree with. Being spotted by radar or hydro isn't the problem. It's learning how to deal with it when it happens. Sometimes it's accidental, and sometimes it's deliberate.

 

If you do not know if you are being spotted by hydro or radar, it is not deliberate though: it should always be accidental. If you push so deep into the enemy's side that you have no idea which ship is detecting you, the problem is not the lack of visual feedback. Sure, you will know how to handle the situation better, but not ending up in that situation to begin with is a much better alternative. That was also my point with the cruiser example: an improved SA will tell you how to handle the situation (better), but being prepared in advance is much more advantageous.

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13 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

I'm not sure if I agree with this. You still don't know which ship it is that's spotting you and as such, you don't really learn anything. The end result is the same: stay away from common hydro/radar traps. If you on the other hand already know the location of the hydro/radar ship, the course of action should be clear.

If you get information about which type is detecting you, then you can figure out how close the enemy is. If it's hydro, it's probably just on the other side of a nearby island. If it's radar, it could be anywhere in the area, but you can probably get an idea based on what the area looks like.

 

Still, the point was that denying information because someone misplays is not an argument. There may be other reasons to not have the information, but because someone misplays isn't one of them.

 

13 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Additionally, I'm not convinced that different symbols will help at all, since we still have DDs which rush into radar range and for some reason don't know why they are spotted. Sure, they will know the method (how), but not by whom or the reason why (too close to the island, too close to a common radar spot, etc.). So what will the lesson be? Stay away from common radar/hydro spots (which is the same as before).

Some players don't know when they're spotted even with the icon. By your logic we shouldn't have any icon for that.

 

Additionally, if you know what it is that spots you, you can usually figure out which ship is spotting you. If you're hard spotted, it's a sneaky DD. If it's hydro, it's probably a German ship. If it's radar, you should already know what radar ships are in the game, so you can approximate where it is and probably which one.

 

Once you've figured that out, you're better equipped for how to deal with the threat. "Staying away" isn't always the option. If that's what you're supposed to learn, it just encourages camping. Learning how to deal with problems without hightailing out of there is better. Sure, sometimes you should stay away, but not always. If you always do that, you learn how to camp.

 

13 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Indeed. It should be rather easy to implement as well: the primary reason of detection could be as it is now, but the secondary reason could be added as a miniature icon next to the regular icon.

Well, it's either that or multiple icons, each with their unique position on the screen. Either works.

 

13 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

If you do not know if you are being spotted by hydro or radar, it is not deliberate though: it should always be accidental. If you push so deep into the enemy's side that you have no idea which ship is detecting you, the problem is not the lack of visual feedback. Sure, you will know how to handle the situation better, but not ending up in that situation to begin with is a much better alternative. That was also my point with the cruiser example: an improved SA will tell you how to handle the situation (better), but being prepared in advance is much more advantageous.

Sometimes I go to bait radar or hydro just to find out if someone is there. Sometimes you want to go deep in so you can flush out enemy ships. It should not always be accidental. And again, that's not a reason to not have it. If anything I think this game needs to be more forgiving of mistakes (not in all areas), especially when it comes to playing aggressively. Punishing mistakes harsher mostly just leads to more camping.

 

Having less information doesn't prepare you better for being prepared in advance anyway. It just scares you away from action.

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Thank you for bringing up all these points guys.

There is more to than this than meets the eye in simply having separate symbols then... . From what some of you have said radar Indicatior needs to prioritise over other detection indicators (because of certain situations) and having more than one symbol appear would probably be more beneficial which is still giving you the information we need to act upon appropriately. So my question is:

A.Should there be an order of priority on the screen eg from say left to right for eg...

B. How can we get this implemented or ad least get WG to confirm consideration? (poll?)

Because @nambr9 has already pointed out:

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 5:29 AM, nambr9 said:

I have brought this up couple of times and it has always been ignored.

 

I support this 100%.

 (sorry to hear that by the way m8) and  it sounds like this would benefit a lot( I appreciate not all ) of the player base.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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this is russian coding.... it happens so often to me that when i play dd in smoke moving without shooting  that they always know where iam that people say they then after im dead after really every shell hits  that they use radar and i did not see the new radar wave and detected sign it even not show me how many people aim at me when im in smoke so i always have to guess do they see me or do they shoot on guessing same with planes in smoke aa off big smoke wall moving im dead did not hear plane attack sound and did not show plane attack sign. is there something new that when youre in smoke you have to guess if they see me or not `? even on map is not possible to see im closed. it happens only on some players on others it works. so where is the magic ? same that when i play as dd i always get aircarriers in match its like 98% i made a test 20 games 1 without carrier in night or in morning or on day.i also noticed when i play and buy flags i get even matchmaking but if i buy long time nothing i get the worst mm you can ever imagine. is there a new trick to get more money  from us ? also very strange what i do not understand how i can get killed as salem or des moines when im approching a Monti bb with juliet charly flag that they get devastating hits with 2 shells in my nose from the front 3° angle and sunk me. i was testing it with bots and they dont use flags and i never ever get more then 2k .we pay so much money for this game is it too much to keep the code clean and fair for players ? there soo many unfair bugs in this game i could go on for hours. fire for example  is magic in this game too you can skill and use flags and build everyting for it and get sometimes only 1 fire per game the next round you get 15 from zoas or henrys i dont want to start with they just have to look on you and you get trple fires. well they should fix the code with updates instead of selling new boxes and stuff in the shop after each update. cant belive that they really code the game so that people who spent much money get fun with the game and people which dont buy get so frustated and mad that they ask themself why they still playing this game. there should be really changed some thing here.

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7 hours ago, n0tmad said:

this is russian coding.... it happens so often to me that when i play dd in smoke moving without shooting  that they always know where iam that people say they then after im dead after really every shell hits  that they use radar and i did not see the new radar wave and detected sign it even not show me how many people aim at me when im in smoke so i always have to guess do they see me or do they shoot on guessing same with planes in smoke aa off big smoke wall moving im dead did not hear plane attack sound and did not show plane attack sign. is there something new that when youre in smoke you have to guess if they see me or not `? even on map is not possible to see im closed. it happens only on some players on others it works. so where is the magic ? same that when i play as dd i always get aircarriers in match its like 98% i made a test 20 games 1 without carrier in night or in morning or on day.i also noticed when i play and buy flags i get even matchmaking but if i buy long time nothing i get the worst mm you can ever imagine. is there a new trick to get more money  from us ? also very strange what i do not understand how i can get killed as salem or des moines when im approching a Monti bb with juliet charly flag that they get devastating hits with 2 shells in my nose from the front 3° angle and sunk me. i was testing it with bots and they dont use flags and i never ever get more then 2k .we pay so much money for this game is it too much to keep the code clean and fair for players ? there soo many unfair bugs in this game i could go on for hours. fire for example  is magic in this game too you can skill and use flags and build everyting for it and get sometimes only 1 fire per game the next round you get 15 from zoas or henrys i dont want to start with they just have to look on you and you get trple fires. well they should fix the code with updates instead of selling new boxes and stuff in the shop after each update. cant belive that they really code the game so that people who spent much money get fun with the game and people which dont buy get so frustated and mad that they ask themself why they still playing this game. there should be really changed some thing here.

1: Nice thread necromancy

2: PARAGRAPHING, please

3: Ever heard of confirmation bias? You're remembering the times when you got no fires/had dozens set on you/got devstruck when nose in and are forgetting the times that you set everything on fire in sight/waste your DCP on one fire and not get punished for it/give flat broadside like a :etc_swear: idiot and take nothing but two overpens.

4: 20 games is an insufficient sample size to draw any conclusions from.

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43 minutes ago, who_dares_wins said:

1: Nice thread necromancy

2: PARAGRAPHING, please

3: Ever heard of confirmation bias? You're remembering the times when you got no fires/had dozens set on you/got devstruck when nose in and are forgetting the times that you set everything on fire in sight/waste your DCP on one fire and not get punished for it/give flat broadside like a :etc_swear: idiot and take nothing but two overpens.

4: 20 games is an insufficient sample size to draw any conclusions from.

Well he sure has a replay that shows what he means. But i think he uses Mods wich conflict with the WoWs Match UI so he dont get the signs.

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Hi all,

 

Please check this thread:

 

 

In it there is quote from WG WoWs main man (when I re-submitted it on Reddit for latest "Q&A #21" - @Sub_Octavian replied):

 

Quote

This request is in our back log. We want to do it, we appreciate that a lot of hardcore players want it, but for now we struggle to raise its priority high enough (comparing, for example, to general UI optimization or UI support for some huge new features planned for 2019).

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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