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SeaWolf7

Seperate detection sybol for Radar/Hydro

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I believe we currently have the same symbol for when your detected by radar and hydro.?(round circle, dots in it)  Personally it can be a bit confusing especially from t8 upwards where we have slots avail for radar on different ships. so in a sticky situation its not always immediately obvious who's doing what to you. Or is it supposed to be like that? Guess the ship and what's on it?

 

KqCgRTw.gif

 

 

If we had separate symbol's you'd also be able to take more appropriate action depending on situation and duration spotted etc.

So hydro, pair headphones, Radar as before, round circle with dots in it.

Would anyone find this a bit more helpful if integrated in to the game...?

Or as I said is it supposed to confuse you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's not "Detected by Hydro" or "Detected by Radar", it's "Detected by a Search System Consumable" (for the lack of a better term to use there).

 

Would it be easier if they were different? Yes

Is it needed? No

 

Also pretty sure they have the same symbol bcuz the game doesn't actually differentiate between them - it's the same effect with one being short range long duration, the other being long range short duration

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It would certainly be nice to know which one had detected you, if only because that would also tell you if the chances of your torps being detected had gone up or not (am I right that radar doesn't help to detect torps?), as well as informing what you should do about being detected...

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Moreover signal from being detected through detection radius shouldn`t override signal from being detected by " Search System Consumable ", since it`s highly misleading for DD`s.

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I think they should have different signals but one thing that bugs me even more is if youre hard detected by ship and also radared it only shows the usual !-signal, so you think its only the ship and pop youre smoke and suddenly it changes to the radar one?! WTF! I just blew a smoke that i cant use and i just slowed down showing a perfect target to all those ships because i didnt know there was aa radar active!

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Plus, why can't we see when a ship uses radar? When a DD uses smoke, def. AA or speed boost you see it on the ship (smoke, more AA fire, black smoke stack). When a Missouri uses radar you can't tell. You have to risk your life to find out.

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I have brought this up couple of times and it has always been ignored.

 

I support this 100%.

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12 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

It's not "Detected by Hydro" or "Detected by Radar", it's "Detected by a Search System Consumable" (for the lack of a better term to use there).

 

Would it be easier if they were different? Yes

Is it needed? No

 

Also pretty sure they have the same symbol bcuz the game doesn't actually differentiate between them - it's the same effect with one being short range long duration, the other being long range short duration

 

You speculate (" the game doesn't actually differentiate between them").

And yes, its needed :)

 

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I as a DD player actually like that you don't immediately know if you are hydroed or radared, this adds one more skill element to the game, you need to be more aware of your surroundings -> "could this be German DD pushing me, or did those USN cruisers push close enough to radar me".

 

But on the other point I totally agree, "Detected by a Search System Consumable" should be the dominant icon even if you are also surface detected, wasting smoke when you don't have any indication that you are actually also radared or hydroed sucks.

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13 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Is it needed? No

 

 

Well, you play mainly BBs and your highest tier DD is T VII, where you don't often meet radar ships. So, no it is not needed for you. :cap_cool:

 

However, at higher tier DD play it is sometimes a matter of life or death to know how long will you be detected.

 

My vote for implementing this....

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Yesterday I had a game where a Missouri was 9km away from me and somewhere in between was Maass.... and I was sitting in the smoke trying to cap out.

The radar / hydro popped up ... who detected me ... is it the Missouri radar or is the Maass rushing me with his hydro....

 

Game changing information .. right there.

 

 

6 hours ago, Naesil said:

I as a DD player actually like that you don't immediately know if you are hydroed or radared, this adds one more skill element to the game, you need to be more aware of your surroundings -> "could this be German DD pushing me, or did those USN cruisers push close enough to radar me".

 

I do understand what you are trying to say here ... but cmon ... while BBs get away with "lets make it as easy for them as possible", do we DDs really need to make the game as hard as possible for us?

Isnt it enough already that at high tiers we have to face numerous radar cruisers + hydro  +  Missouri + Black ?

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31 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

 

I do understand what you are trying to say here ... but cmon ... while BBs get away with "lets make it as easy for them as possible", do we DDs really need to make the game as hard as possible for us?

Isnt it enough already that at high tiers we have to face numerous radar cruisers + hydro  +  Missouri + Black ?

Game is getting more brainless every patch, so instead of making it easy for everyone maybe they should start making all classes punishable when making mistakes (I though they finally did this by making BBs actually eat citadels when full broadsiding, but that obviously was bug and needed immediate fixing :Smile_hiding:).

 

So instead of making game easier for everyone they should focus on balancing some other way.

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13 hours ago, Oldschool_Gaming_YT said:

I think they should have different signals but one thing that bugs me even more is if youre hard detected by ship and also radared it only shows the usual !-signal, so you think its only the ship and pop youre smoke and suddenly it changes to the radar one?! WTF! I just blew a smoke that i cant use and i just slowed down showing a perfect target to all those ships because i didnt know there was aa radar active!

 

This!

While a different icon for Hydro and Radar would be convenient indeed, the fact that you cannot immediatly tell if you are visually detected or device-detected it's a thing that should be addressed. Device detection should always override visual detection icon.

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18 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Also pretty sure they have the same symbol bcuz the game doesn't actually differentiate between them - it's the same effect with one being short range long duration, the other being long range short duration

You assume incorrectly. Game does differentiate. It has to because one detects torpedoes while the other doesn't.

 

I'd support multiple icons being shown as well. That way you'd know that you're detected by ship/plane/sonar/radar without having to blow a smoke(or AA consumable to shoot down a spotting plane) just to find out that you're also being detected by radar/sonar.

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4 hours ago, TekumzeWolf said:

You assume incorrectly. Game does differentiate. It has to because one detects torpedoes while the other doesn't.

 

I'd support multiple icons being shown as well. That way you'd know that you're detected by ship/plane/sonar/radar without having to blow a smoke(or AA consumable to shoot down a spotting plane) just to find out that you're also being detected by radar/sonar.

We're talking about SHIP DETECTION. Both simply extend the assured detection range by your ship

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

We're talking about SHIP DETECTION. Both simply extend the assured detection range by your ship

 

It doesn't matter though: the game does differentiate between them (despite WG's multiple errors when introducing/patching the symbols):

  • Added a separate indicator showing that the player's ship is detected by the enemy using the Hydroacoustic Search consumable. In the future, a similar indicator will be added showing that the player's ship is detected by the enemy using the Surveillance Radar consumable. [UPDATED]

Source.

 

As for the topic, I don't mind the identical warnings as you are, in most cases, extremely out of position if you don't know if you are being spotted by hydro or radar.

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I think that if we remove radar from the game, this problem of differentiating radar from sonar would disappear completely! What a fantastic solution! :fish_cute_2:

 

In all seriousness, I want all the information I can get. I don't want one type of information override another type, because they're both relevant.

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13 hours ago, Naesil said:

I as a DD player actually like that you don't immediately know if you are hydroed or radared, this adds one more skill element to the game, you need to be more aware of your surroundings -> "could this be German DD pushing me, or did those USN cruisers push close enough to radar me".

 

Are you insane? How can I be aware of my surroundings went I don't have enough or the right information to be more aware of my surroundings in the first place?:Smile_amazed:

As @AnotherDuck said I think its about getting as much info as possible in these situations.

If you happy to take a gamble with multiple opponents in close quarter situations with the wrong info....Fair enough but it usually end the same for me when I make the wrong guess:

 

DNroaf9.gif

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

We're talking about SHIP DETECTION. Both simply extend the assured detection range by your ship

As Mashed potato above me already explained all the technical prerequisites are already there. WG at the moment just chose not to distinguish between the two modes of detection.

15 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

As for the topic, I don't mind the identical warnings as you are, in most cases, extremely out of position if you don't know if you are being spotted by hydro or radar.

I don't think being "out of position" is relevant to the conversation? You can always find a case where extra info you get might not help you survive.

That doesn’t negate the usefulness of that info in a different situation or the fact that you can relay it to your team.

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1 hour ago, TekumzeWolf said:

I don't think being "out of position" is relevant to the conversation? You can always find a case where extra info you get might not help you survive.

 

Sure, but if you find yourself in a position where you don't know what's detecting you, being able to judge the method of detection won't help. You'll either be safe or you won't, depending on the cover available. That's also why I like it as it currently is, as it serves as a nice way to teach destroyer captains that they shouldn't use smoke/push caps if they do not have enough information/vision. I mean, destroyers are supposed to spot (CV-games excluded) for their team so if they are being suprise-"hydroed", they already misplayed heavily. Alternatively, they hugged an island somewhere on the map and should be in perfect cover. If not, that's another misplay.

 

Having said that though, my opinion on the matter is hardly (or is it? :fish_glass:) objectively correct, nor does it matter all that much to me, so it is up to WG to decide how they want to handle things. Judging by the amount of times this has been requested, it should be added to WG's implementation list at least.

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What's with Commodus?

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1 hour ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Sure, but if you find yourself in a position where you don't know what's detecting you, being able to judge the method of detection won't help. You'll either be safe or you won't, depending on the cover available. That's also why I like it as it currently is, as it serves as a nice way to teach destroyer captains that they shouldn't use smoke/push caps if they do not have enough information/vision. I mean, destroyers are supposed to spot (CV-games excluded) for their team so if they are being suprise-"hydroed", they already misplayed heavily. Alternatively, they hugged an island somewhere on the map and should be in perfect cover. If not, that's another misplay.

Knowing what detects you can help. If it's radar, you know the duration isn't going to be as long as if it's hydro (well, it could still be a US radar with upgrade). So if you're behind an island, you can sit there for a little while. If it's hydro, you know you can move away from it and get out of range much easier. If you know you're hardspotted and spotted by radar/hydro, you know you can't smoke away, but if you're only hardspotted, you can hide in smoke.

 

I don't think misplaying is an argument. Why should that mean you're not allowed to have information to get you out of it? And teaching someone to not do things without information by denying them information is backwards. At any rate I don't think we should encourage players to be even more careful than they already are. I'll take a team of yolo way ahead of a team of camp.

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23 hours ago, _DeathWing_ said:

What's with Commodus?

He is not pleased with the current situation....

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On 29.3.2018 at 2:00 PM, AnotherDuck said:

So if you're behind an island, you can sit there for a little while. If it's hydro, you know you can move away from it and get out of range much easier.

 

That's pretty much the only time the extra information would be useful though. Even then, you have no guarantee that you won't be deleted once you back off from the island cover.

 

On 29.3.2018 at 2:00 PM, AnotherDuck said:

If you know you're hardspotted and spotted by radar/hydro, you know you can't smoke away, but if you're only hardspotted, you can hide in smoke.

 

This, on the other hand, I support 100 %. The game should tell you when you are being spotted by multiple methods, since this is useful information that you cannot find otherwise. It won't help if you are brawling with a German destroyer, but it will at least prevent ineffective panic smokes.

 

On 29.3.2018 at 2:00 PM, AnotherDuck said:

I don't think misplaying is an argument. Why should that mean you're not allowed to have information to get you out of it? And teaching someone to not do things without information by denying them information is backwards.

 

I could make the same argument with the situational awareness skill: why does it not tell you which ship is spotting you? Why should a cruiser not be allowed to know whether it is a destroyer or an enemy cruiser that is spotting it?

I'd rather have the game reward game knowledge (detection ranges, hydro/radar ships, radar, spots, etc.) then just give everything "for free". 

 

On 29.3.2018 at 2:00 PM, AnotherDuck said:

At any rate I don't think we should encourage players to be even more careful than they already are. I'll take a team of yolo way ahead of a team of camp.

 

But this won't help with that though. The destroyers that rush into hydro/radar range without information are not "yolo'ing"; they are being suicidal. The same goes for destroyer players who smoke up inside capture zones without vision. Yes, they may get away with it, but the game does not give them an extra warning regarding incoming torpedoes.

 

Welp, now it seems that I am overly against this feature, but I figured that I should explain my point. As I wrote earlier, the extra information can be added for all I care, but it won't change much: players who find themselves in a relevant situation will not benefit much from it, as the issue is not that they cannot differentiate between the two consumables. The issue is that they ended up in that situation to begin with (well, hard cover excluded but I assume that the player chose said hard cover to negate the hydro/radar threat).

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