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Aragathor

TVI American Light Cruiser - Dallas

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So, the preview stats for the Cleveland replacement Dallas have been posted:

 

Before I go forward with my thoughts let's get something out of my head, something that has followed me since the name for the ship was chosen:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Looking at both cruisers I can see that the guns remained the same, with Dallas having only 2 less with 2x2 2x3 turrets. I thought the ship would have 4x2 like in the study plans that were done on the Omaha.

The range is better than on the Cleveland, but the RoF is much worse. In fact it has a reload only 1s better than the 203mm Aoba, with only 1 gun more than the much faster firing Budyonny/La Galissonniere.

 

The AA of Dallas is 50/68/46 for short/medium/long range compared with Cleveland's 46/27/90. This means that the Dallas will have a better short and medium AA bubble, and a significantly weaker long range bubble. So going for an AA build will require AFT ASAP.

The secondaries are much weaker on the Dallas with only 2x2 127mm turrets, compared to this Cleveland had 6x2 127mm. Although it might be even worse as the preview stats don't have a secondaries entry for the Dallas. So either way, good bye troll secondary build.

 

Dallas has also much worse HP and armor, but let's not forget that the Cleveland was phenomenal in this case.

Maneuverability is better on the Dallas, but only slightly so. The concealment is much better with 11,9km compared to the Cleveland's 13,3.

 

Consumables worry me, as the Dallas has no access to hydro. Is it an oversight or is it deliberate? I don't know, but it's strange as both Omaha at T5 and current Cleveland have Hydro.

 

With these stats, assuming they will not be changed, the Dallas will become a stealthy light cruiser, with decent AA and the ability to dish out some decent damage into both DDs and BBs. It won't dominate the tier like the Cleveland did. But that's good, as it will give good ships like the Aoba and Budyonny a chance to shine.

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25 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 It won't dominate the tier like the Cleveland did. But that's good, as it will give good ships like the Aoba and Budyonny a chance to shine.

sorry Aragathor, but buddy what?

i understand about Aoba and others but don't put the best t6 ship in there.

It's buddy that casts a shadow over the others.don't need any help to shine for it's own.

Moving on.

about dallas, you are saiyng that will go more in the lines of Omaha, like a Konisberg /Nurnberg will be the same for Omaha/Dallas?

Well, i can't say i wasn't expecting something like that.

but A light cruiser with that much reload?152mm vs 203mm. That's simply dirty, 

Perhaps it's time to LaGal step up from cleveland's shadow and claim what's rightfully his.

 

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3 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

about dallas, you are saiyng that will go more in the lines of Omaha, like a Konisberg /Nurnberg will be the same for Omaha/Dallas?

Looks like it, Dallas seems very squishy, and not in a good way.

 

3 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

but A light cruiser with that much reload?152mm vs 203mm. That's simply dirty, 

Yeah, that's worrying as the Dallas gets outshot by the Perth. And Perth has smoke and torps...

With these stats Dallas has the worst RoF at tier.

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With all mentioned above, she will be a good contestant for a new "Worst t6 cruiser"...

And I really can't understand why would they go from Cleveland to something like this.
I mean, one might argue that Cleveland was too strong, but this one is simply not cutting it...

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Only thing I don't like is DPM. It seems way to low, she will share the last place together with Gasoline which has better arcs and range and also, at least some, torps and still it's quite mediocre cruiser. I think she will need buff to her reload. Also after the split Budy should become undisputed king of T6 CLs.

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6 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Looks like it, Dallas seems very squishy, and not in a good way.

 

Yeah, that's worrying as the Dallas gets outshot by the Perth. And Perth has smoke and torps...

With these stats Dallas has the worst RoF at tier.

No, they have to chance something until release.

If as is Dallas will have all disadvantages of a sluggish and slow ship.

In fact, they are speaking of Worcester and comparing it with Atlanta, WTF?

But I'm only seeing copy/paste all over the line.

same speed, same velocity shells, etc.

Cl's at their best can hold flanks, delay actions when outnumbered, that kind of things.

Cl's at their worst can't do any of that. but at least they have great guns.

But I think as is Dallas biggest contesters will be non other than t8 dds. They will  AP Dallas to the ground.

32.5 knots, slow velocity shells, 10 seconds reload, no armour?

It's a death trap.

 

152= CLs= fast firing guns

16mm = High speed and high manoeuvring capabilities

Just saying.

 

I don't need another Turd or another stupid Aoba that's a strait downgrade from furutaka.

Being stuck with two turds at t6 it's lame.

 

 

 

 

 

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Fast rudder shift, fast turret traverse, tight shell dispersion, plenty of guns, same fire chance as Budyonny... I think you're doing Dallas a disservice. 

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44 minutes ago, Yogibjoern said:

Chance any screen shot has leaked???

 

 

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Fast rudder shift, fast turret traverse, tight shell dispersion, plenty of guns, same fire chance as Budyonny... I think you're doing Dallas a disservice. 

2s slower reload, way worse range and shell velocity and no torps should Rush B need arise. La Gasoline already is mediocre copy of a Budyonny, Dallas will be even worse.

 

 

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Budyonny is a very powerful ship in the right hands, and a very fragile one in the hands of most. Dallas looks capable enough, in her own way.

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Really looking forward to this cruiser split, but I am at the same time a bit worried. Seems like T VI is going to be hit hard with the nerf bat in both lines. Remember none of them have torps which should be calculated in the total dpm.

 

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They'll find a role. Pensacola hits hard enough at VI to work, even with glacial turret traverse. Dallas looks like a close-range support cruiser, a bit like a Huang He... decent broadside against DDs and CLs, start fires and run vs anything bigger.

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My point is that they have to be fun to play for everyone, not just for the good players. Otherwise it ends up in a free xp skip tier. would be a shame with all that work invested.

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Most Tier VI cruisers are like that, though. It's a tough tier to play... nothing wrong in making people stop and think about what they're doing and improve their skills and awareness.

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I rather see the recent power creep within all new lines to benefit the USN a bit. We need more cruisers and if they are not fun people won't play them.

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25 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Most Tier VI cruisers are like that, though. It's a tough tier to play... nothing wrong in making people stop and think about what they're doing and improve their skills and awareness.

The problem is that this might dissuade people from playing cruisers and switching to something else (like BBs).

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2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

They'll find a role. Pensacola hits hard enough at VI to work, even with glacial turret traverse. Dallas looks like a close-range support cruiser, a bit like a Huang He... decent broadside against DDs and CLs, start fires and run vs anything bigger.

The TURD will be in trouble at t6.

And you forget about MM.

decent broadside against DDs...man, you simply can't, they will eat you alive without HE or torps.

In a t6 cruiser you have to face t8 dds  as they were cruisers.

But with those factors (reload, armour, speed and sluggishness) you simply can't.

With those numbers Dallas will be a pure support ship and a bad one, and at the first sign of trouble you have to move on or be swept away.

sorry, I just don't share your optimism.

 

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1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said:

The problem is that this might dissuade people from playing cruisers and switching to something else (like BBs).

Perhaps it's us that are spoiled.

we had Cleveland at t6.

And WG perhaps wants something to give a better continuity to Omaha.

Older players sing prazes about the old Cleveland, how it was a monster then it got nerfed and putted in t6?

How he belongs at t8.

I have my doubts, but who am I to say anything.

But t8 faces t10 ships, perhaps they will kill a "legend".

 

there's so many ships I eared about being strong and monsters and now they are shrunken to oblivion. 

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I think that both Dallas and Helena should get at least 9s reload. Even 8.5s maybe. 9sec reload will give one more salvo over 2min, 8.5sec would mean 7 salvos in a minute. Dallas DPM seems quite insufficient and considering that neither Dallas and Helena have torps and all their DPM comes entirely from guns they should have a decent RoF especially with those arcs. And ffs bring back Helena her quad Bofors mounts.  

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Cleveland was an OP monster in beta, and her current gameplay style is one of the things which has led to the BB camping meta. Ships firing HE rainbows over islands against any BB which tries to take an aggressive approach is not something that should be going on at Tier VI, unless the ship doing it is quite limited, squishy and situational. Cleveland wasn't, it was very well balanced - too well balanced, really. Dallas looks like a step in the right direction - she has all the manoeuvrability of Pensacola in a smaller package, which has to be workable, but has limitations which might actually make BBs work a bit harder to support her.

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BTW - what's this? I didn't see Boise in the cruiser split lineup.... I thought Helena was the VII CL? 

 

ST. American cruiser Boise, tier VII.

Hit points – 33300. Plating - 16 mm. Armor belt – 127 mm.

Main battery - 5х3 152 mm. Firing range – 13.6 km.

Maximum HE shell damage – 2200. Chance to cause fire – 12%.

Maximum AP shell damage - 3200.

Reload time - 10 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s.

Maximum dispersion - 127 m.

HE initial velocity - 812 m/s. AP initial velocity - 762 m/s.

Sigma value – 2.0.

AA defense - 8x2 20 mm, range - 2.0 km, damage per second - 49.

6x2 40 mm, range - 3.5 km, damage per second - 68.

4x4 40 mm, range - 3.5 km, damage per second - 64.

8x1 127 mm, range - 4.2 km, damage per second - 58.

Maximum speed - 30 kt. Turning circle radius - 810 m. Rudder shift time – 9.1 s.

Surface detectability – 11.5 km. Air detectability – 7.6 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke – 5.6 km.

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Defensive AA Fire/Hydroacoustic Search

Slot 3 - Surveillance Radar

All stats are listed without crew and upgrade modifiers but with best available modules. The stats are subject to change during the testing. The cruiser might change her national allegiance and name before coming to production.

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14 hours ago, Panocek said:

La Gasoline already is mediocre copy of a Budyonny, Dallas will be even worse.

 

Being cynical for a moment, it seems that WG are trying to re-balance higher tier cruisers by making the mid tier ones worse.

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