Random idea for AA 'balance'

[anonym_2hneAFaIyP4T]

So, I had this random idea. It doesn't even affect me really yet, (T5 CV is as far as I've got) but having browsed these forums a fair bit, I gather higher-tier AA is a pig to deal with. I was thinking about something totally unrelated when 'BAM' this idea drops out of nowhere... so I thought I'd see what the experts think?

 

TL:DR version - would introducing barrage balloons as a consumable (instead of DFAA? Or just reduce base AA) be a potential way to balance out 'OP' AA vs. 'reliable safety' for other classes? Please explain why. I'm sure it's a bad idea for many reasons I am not aware of due to my inexperience 

 

The ramble and such like:

Spoiler

A BB/CA/CL pops up a barrage balloon (yes, I know - it's not historically accurate) and TB's and DB's suffer the 'panic' dispersion, plus maybe the TB's can't torp closer than 'X'. Maybe reduce speed within the aura so lower base AA can still have some impact? The balloon is essentially 'indefinitely' up (until strafed out by fighters, or 'released' by mothership?) but has a -10% impact on max speed (and rudder shift time? what about increasing (so it's worse) concealment range by 10%? hmmm...) so there is some trade-off. Maybe have 2 reloads?

 

Basically, it would give a bunch of different trade-offs for both red 'target' and you in the CV - you could still push a strike home without crippling losses, but with poorer hit chance. Or you could wait until your fighters are free to strafe out the balloon and give you a solid strike. Red team has to choose between protection from air, verses manoeuvrability and visibility trade-offs. However, it would potentially also give better detection (over-island spotting?) so not totally useless in non-cv games? Imagine 'perma-radar' where the 'radar' (balloon) ship has to remain spotted if he want's his 'radar' active!?

 

Probably would not have a hope of working for a multitude of reasons, but I wondered if anyone had any (courteous) comments on this? Yep, I'm a noob, talking about stuff I have no experience of... hence why I'm asking  

 

I guess the CV re-work that is coming soon^TM that will probably change all this anyway

 

Thanks for bearing with me 

[gekkehenkie50]

18 minutes ago, Rusty_9 said:

So, I had this random idea. It doesn't even affect me really yet, (T5 CV is as far as I've got) but having browsed these forums a fair bit, I gather higher-tier AA is a pig to deal with. I was thinking about something totally unrelated when 'BAM' this idea drops out of nowhere... so I thought I'd see what the experts think?

 

TL:DR version - would introducing barrage balloons as a consumable (instead of DFAA? Or just reduce base AA) be a potential way to balance out 'OP' AA vs. 'reliable safety' for other classes? Please explain why. I'm sure it's a bad idea for many reasons I am not aware of due to my inexperience 

 

The ramble and such like:

  Hide contents

A BB/CA/CL pops up a barrage balloon (yes, I know - it's not historically accurate) and TB's and DB's suffer the 'panic' dispersion, plus maybe the TB's can't torp closer than 'X'. Maybe reduce speed within the aura so lower base AA can still have some impact? The balloon is essentially 'indefinitely' up (until strafed out by fighters, or 'released' by mothership?) but has a -10% impact on max speed (and rudder shift time? what about increasing (so it's worse) concealment range by 10%? hmmm...) so there is some trade-off. Maybe have 2 reloads?

 

Basically, it would give a bunch of different trade-offs for both red 'target' and you in the CV - you could still push a strike home without crippling losses, but with poorer hit chance. Or you could wait until your fighters are free to strafe out the balloon and give you a solid strike. Red team has to choose between protection from air, verses manoeuvrability and visibility trade-offs. However, it would potentially also give better detection (over-island spotting?) so not totally useless in non-cv games? Imagine 'perma-radar' where the 'radar' (balloon) ship has to remain spotted if he want's his 'radar' active!?

 

Probably would not have a hope of working for a multitude of reasons, but I wondered if anyone had any (courteous) comments on this? Yep, I'm a noob, talking about stuff I have no experience of... hence why I'm asking  

 

I guess the CV re-work that is coming soon^TM that will probably change all this anyway

 

Thanks for bearing with me 

This actually sounds like a solid idea

Few questions from my perspective though;

1. Would the effect stack with multiple barrage balloons up?
2. Which of course leads to; will multiple barrage balloons be of any use? One of the 'original' purposes of Def AA was to escort ships that did not have it, but I can't see how a balloon attached to a cruiser would be much of an issue to a squadron targeting a different ship next to it, unless it were right on their attack path.
3. What would the AoE be of these balloons? It would seem out of place for them to affect planes within the entirety of some ships' 8km AA aura.
4. Would the fighters be at risk of taking dmg from the balloon? What would it's HP be?

Besides that, there is one small historical thingy I need to point out, though it is of little issue in WoWS (because everyone knows WoWS is the BEST accurate naval sim out there!);

Barrage balloons were mainly a detterent against dive-bombers, as they would pull up/dive through the thick cable, torpedo bombers would usually break off before even reaching the ship itself and rarely fly over their target. afaik. ofc.

 

Besides that, I actually quite like the idea! Especially if you can answer the above questions!

[anonym_2hneAFaIyP4T]

48 minutes ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

Besides that, I actually quite like the idea! Especially if you can answer the above questions!

lol - I better had then 

 

Here goes:

 

1, 2 + 3) In my mind I was thinking that 1 balloon has an AoE similar to mid range AA (or maybe fixed at  c.3.5km?). Stacking; yes. I was thinking you could only have 1 balloon launched per ship at a time but i suppose if you are lone escorting, your could launch 'both' of your balloons at once to increase the AoE to your max AA range (or c.7km?)? The negatives(-10% x2) would probably stack on the ship, but not 'double' the panic effect on the planes (they are going slower for longer after all?). Otherwise, kind of by default, sailing in convoy (um, not promoting lemming trains here!) with other balloon ships would also give a bigger headache to the CV capt. 

 

4) Damage? No, probably not. After all, being in the AA aura is going to do some damage anyway. Add to the fact that the fighters have got plenty to do without 'suppressing' AA defences I think the 'cost' is already high enough? Stand to be corrected on that though. HP: That's kinda tricky, especially as I am not familiar with all the load outs and such. They vary pretty massively, but if HP could be balanced to the equivalent of 1 1/2 'average' strafing runs? So 'generically' it's going to need 2 full IJN strafes and more than 1 full USN strafe to bring it down (based on the incorrect(?) assumption that USN has more strafing power than IJN)? Maybe make it ctrl-clickable by AA from ships too though?

 

1 hour ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

one small historical thingy...

yeah, there is that... and the fact that (afaik) they were only used on merchant vessels and by landing craft IRL  Balance^TM 

 

1 hour ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

This actually sounds like a solid idea

Cool, thanks 

[El2aZeR]

I feel like this is one of those ideas where you honestly can't judge how good/bad it is without seriously testing it.

[gekkehenkie50]

4 hours ago, Rusty_9 said:

yeah, there is that... and the fact that (afaik) they were only used on merchant vessels and by landing craft IRL  Balance^TM 

actually

Spoiler

So its not too far-fetched in that department, though I'm not entirely sure if those are barrage or observation balloons (or if there is even a difference)

[anonym_2hneAFaIyP4T]

12 hours ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

So its not too far-fetched in that department, though I'm not entirely sure if those are barrage or observation balloons (or if there is even a difference)

Cool! Could have been either although my initial guess is more likely to be for observation (sub spotting and gunnery assist) - maybe that could be an added benefit? -10% dispersion when deployed