What is it with Battleship HE spam??!?

[darkstar73]

Hello guys. Just played a game. And again. Why do most(like 90%) battleship players shoot HE ONLY? Against a perfect target. Start spam HE at max range. Then no matter what target they aim at. HE spam only. Why is that? Howcome it is like that now. Was NOT like that earlier. Can´t player aim nowadays? I mean if you can aim you will choose AP almost everytime. Results AP vs HE says itself. So why guys? Just wondering. Have a great day :) 

[Miyamotosama]

Noticed that all the week end guess they dont know ap is the way to go 90% of the time with a battle ship. 

 

Shhh don't tell them

[Centurion_1711]

The main cause: Royal Navy BB's. Their best weapon (though not always, mind) is HE with high damage and obscene fire chance. Youtubers all fire HE with these ships because that is what works, nine times out of ten. So RN battleship players do the same, and it works rather well. Unfortunately, a lot of the BB player base (who aren't renowned for good tactical thinking, let's be honest) see this HE spam, and think that their Colorado, Kongo, Bayern, Tirpitz etc. will do well with just HE. They think that scoring a fire every volley and 2-3k damage is just fine, but fire damage can be healed easily and 2-3k on a battleship or cruiser every 30 seconds isn't going to sink them.

As we know, BB's do best with AP. But try telling that to the kind of player that hugs the border of the map, refuses to tank damage, goes the wrong way in operations and moans at the rest of the team when they get sunk because they are all alone on a flank against a couple of DD's.

[fumtu]

Because HE is new AP

 

But yes quite often I see German or US BBs shooting nothing but HE not matter is it target broadside or angled. Maybe everybody wants to be a RN BB now.

[MrFingers]

When I'm sailing a British BB, I tend to use HE from time to time (especially with low-calibre guns like the KGV/DoY). But that's about it. Never fired HE in my German, American or Japanese Battlewagons. 

 

And Nelson HE can citadel quite a few cruisers it encounters, and wreck modules along the way. Poor Atlanta that I encountered yesterday didn't know what hit him: HE citadel, double fire, 3 turrets knocked out, as well as one torpedo launcher and the rudder & engine. From one salvo at 11 kms.

[That_Other_Nid]

Yeah, just watched a Sharnhorst sink a QE and Bayern that refused to fire AP at any range, even against cruisers. I spam 6" IFHE at everything rather than AP but that really does work. In a BB I stick to AP for everything.

[Allied_Winter]

Since this seems to be the thread we're roling with (why two threads though OP?), I simply Copy Pasta my post from the other one.

 

RN BB syndrome.

 

Players see RN BBs spam HE. Mostly because with RN BBs and their 1/4 pen, high Alpha and high fire chance it's brain dead left click spam with the "1" button. Players in other nations BBs simlpy try to replicate that.

 

In 95% of the cases with way less success, but eh...

 

 

Greetings

 

[Vaderan]

Besides the obvious RN-BB example: HE is the easy way to play for simple minded players. To be successfull with AP, you need to aim properly (skill requirement). When shells are fired, you need gracefull RNG to connect with to the target (RNG requirement). If shells connect with the target, you once again need gracefull RNG to actually hit, where it hurts, no just simply overpen (RNG requirement). Last but not least, while AP might work wonderfully against targets showing broadside, AP can become useless, if the target turns into an angle that allows it to bounce/deflect AP shells (correct prediction requirement). All these requirements for the chance of scoring a citadell hit = max damage, and even this chance is a tradoff for the chance of causing fires and inflicting module damage.

HE, on the other side and in comparison, requires less aiming skill (lower skill requirement) and more or less simply needs to connect with the target, to show results (RNG requirement). BB HE shells simply overmatch most lightly arored surfaces and are allowed to cause moderate damage that way, why still having the chance of fires and module damage. BBs and some cruisers/DDs might be able to repair fire damage, but the majority of non BB class ships cannot.

So, while giong HE exclusively is the wrong way for maximum success with a BB, HE spam has become a viable alternative for those who seek constant progress with less effort, compared to the high risk - low yield - rng game with AP...

[_DeathWing_]

I call this a Royal Navy BB syndrome. 

[Gvozdeni_Puk_1912]

What about the French then - Alsace non stop overpen fiesta with fast shells is not only rage inducing but also game deciding - when in late stages you just need to broadside that Zao and all you get are overpens, while he's burning you up with every salvo

[EsaTuunanen]

BB stands for Brainless Bo(a)t.

RN BB HE was one of the worst things for player quality.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Gvozdeni_Puk_1912 said:

What about the French then - Alsace non stop overpen fiesta with fast shells is not only rage inducing but also game deciding - when in late stages you just need to broadside that Zao and all you get are overpens, while he's burning you up with every salvo

You want easy to lead high speed trajectory?

You'll get shells going too fast to stay inside target ship when meeting light armor for their penetration capability...

(and unable to hit majority of citadel situated under waterline)

[CaptBoardy]

Hi. I tend to begin the battles with HE loaded and i will try to start fires on other BB's from a distance. It is also useful against the fast approaching DD's but as the BBs get within a certain range, i switch over to AP. I do this regardless of the nationality. It works for me, perhaps others are trying this strategy too.

 

 

[ShinGetsu]

7 hours ago, MrFingers said:

And Nelson HE can citadel quite a few cruisers it encounters, and wreck modules along the way. Poor Atlanta that I encountered yesterday didn't know what hit him: HE citadel, double fire, 3 turrets knocked out, as well as one torpedo launcher and the rudder & engine. From one salvo at 11 kms.

With AP he would have been dead, no question asked. Been there, done that. Nelson is incredibly dangerous as a CA/CL hunter.

I'd rather delete him and get a shiny Devastating Strike than torturing my prey. I don't play with food.

[BeauNidl3]

5 minutes ago, CaptBoardy said:

Hi. I tend to begin the battles with HE loaded and i will try to start fires on other BB's from a distance. It is also useful against the fast approaching DD's but as the BBs get within a certain range, i switch over to AP. I do this regardless of the nationality. It works for me, perhaps others are trying this strategy too.

 

 

 

Not really, pay attention in any match and you will find BB players in IJN, KM, USN, Italian, French and the old Premium RN ships firing HE the whole game, they're either caught up the RN BB syndrome (RN BB AP works just fine) or they're plain too lazy to realise that against any thing other than straight bows on AP works well if you can aim. I've even seen Yamato players using HE only which is laughable.

 

The thing with HE spam is that they get the satisfaction of high damage numbers without thinking about the fact that they could have outright killed enemies with AP. I'm afraid it's just people being a bit mentally challenged.

 

Versus a non RN HE spammer I can afford to show them a broadside (even in cruisers) and blow them to bits with AP.

 

I'm convinced that it's entirely down to what @_DeathWing_ termed Royal Navy BB syndrome.

[HaachamaShipping]

It's why I dislike the RN BBs. Continued playing Iron Duke only recently for Aigle mission to destroy 100 modules, but otherwise, it feels lazy and pretty silly to just watch the enemy burn to death while you shrug off their AP and then delete some cruisers, because RN HE can citadel them at lower levels.

 

In other nations, only reason to load HE is if I have to shoot perfectly angled targets or if up vs only a DD. But as AP kills them almost as easily, might not even bother. Especially if it is rushing straight at you, you can just get full pens along the length of the ship, likely taking out half its modules too.

[Humorpalanta]

I also like to joke about brainless BBs and stuff but nowadays shooting HE in a BB isn't actually a bad idea.

 

Why?

 

First of all: HE spam by cruisers, RN BBs and etc make ships use damage con very often. Many times BB AP cannot be trusted enough because of the huge RNG included. Broadside BBs can easily slip away with overpens even from close distances if RNG says NO and with many players these happen. So HE gives a trustable damage output by it's (lower but) actual damage and the possible fires that can easily stay for long time (earlier mentioned HE spam).

Secondly BB gameplay is mostly bow on and tank. RNG gives rare occasions to cause any actual damage by AP and if you do it's not much. But HE is useful and pens the bow on BBs too and lights fires that cannot be damage cont.

Thirdly because when occasions give a chance to shoot at a broadside ship and you have HE loaded you can shoot nothing but HE because reload would kill the chance so you have nothing to lose if you shoot HE at it and by the next reload is ready the chance is gone.

 

So if you think about it WG screwed up so many times and so badly that it's better to use HE on cruisers and BBs and AP on DDs...

Yes, it's stupid but we can't change, only WG.

[That_Other_Nid]

9 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

 

First of all: HE spam by cruisers, RN BBs and etc make ships use damage con very often. Many times BB AP cannot be trusted enough because of the huge RNG included. Broadside BBs can easily slip away with overpens even from close distances if RNG says NO and with many players these happen. So HE gives a trustable damage output by it's (lower but) actual damage and the possible fires that can easily stay for long time (earlier mentioned HE spam).

Secondly BB gameplay is mostly bow on and tank. RNG gives rare occasions to cause any actual damage by AP and if you do it's not much. But HE is useful and pens the bow on BBs too and lights fires that cannot be damage cont.

Thirdly because when occasions give a chance to shoot at a broadside ship and you have HE loaded you can shoot nothing but HE because reload would kill the chance so you have nothing to lose if you shoot HE at it and by the next reload is ready the chance is gone.

 

 

I just had a game where I sailed my mogami into the cap because our DDs were outclassed by the opposing DDs. In the process I ended up broadside to 3 BBs at about 12 km. 2 were firing HE and the other one was sunk quickly. I was taking full broadsides from a Lion and Kurfurst and just putting the fires out. We got the cap and I did 36k return damage before I finally sank after 3 minutes under fire.

 

I did make a mistake in getting so far forward, but it was ridiculous  that they could not sink me instantly.

[invicta2012]

HE on BB has a practical role - setting fires at long range, even if it can be healed, still annoys your opponent and wastes their consumables. I know I use it on my Dunkerque due to the wonky performance of French AP and the ability (with IFHE) to merrily citadel and set fires on over-excitable cruisers (mmm , toasted Cleveland) but I wouldn't bother shooting it at another BB, AP is better almost every time. Unfortunately spamming HE also has another role, which is stat padding. It would make more sense if the damage figure used for calculating stats was damage caused minus the amount of your damage that was healed....

[Brett50]

I imagine people are doing it because of getting fed up of terrible RNG giving them 4 overpens on broadside cruisers at 5km, so they switch to HE, guaranteed an ok amount of damage and a good fire chance to go with it, WG basically made HE the general purpose ammo and AP for if you're feeling lucky, i've completely given up on playing BB's recently because of it. that class doesn't reward skill at all, only rewards those with good luck.

[invicta2012]

That's not RNG, that's firing Armour Piercing ammunition at an unarmoured target at close range. Most cruisers from Tiers IV - VII are late WWI or Washington Treaty designs and have almost no armour at all, so if you fire AP ammunition (designed to penetrate BB armour) at them the shells will just go through before they explode.

[P2Win]

Blame WG for the ridiculous RN BB and FR BB fire chance...

[BeauNidl3]

1 hour ago, P2Win said:

Blame WG for the ridiculous RN BB and FR BB fire chance...

 

French BB fire chance is about average from what I can see, it's only the RN BB's with particularly high %ages with the exception of the Monarch.

 

Tier 8 :-

North Carolina (& Alabama) - 36%

Bismarck (& Tirpitz) - 34%

Amagi (& Kii) - 30%

Monarch - 35%

Richelieu - 36%

 

I've not got the time to wade through a few more tiers at the moment, but FR BB's fire chance seems nothing special and I can only put it down to RN BB syndrome when I see FR BB'd spamming HE at broadside targets.

 

 

 

[Warhawk1984]

why not HE spam its OP as hell just got set on fire in my NC by a max range conq first salvo 3 fires, thats a lot of dot damage so i put it out asap next salvo 3 fires again so im taking massive damage to fire start a repair next salvo 4th fire and thats me screwed no defense against that.

 

chance of fires from BB shells needs to be reduced to like 10% max not 35-40% 

 

 

[BeauNidl3]

13 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

why not HE spam its OP as hell just got set on fire in my NC by a max range conq first salvo 3 fires, thats a lot of dot damage so i put it out asap next salvo 3 fires again so im taking massive damage to fire start a repair next salvo 4th fire and thats me screwed no defense against that.

 

chance of fires from BB shells needs to be reduced to like 10% max not 35-40% 

 

 

 

Well the Conqueror (and all of the silver line of RN BB's apart from the Monarch) has an exceptionally high fire chance and very high base damage, but that's been discussed to death in many threads. It's the RN silver tech tree "gimmick" which of course doesn't apply to Warspite and Hood which have very ordinary even crappy HE.

However the discussion in this thread is about people spamming HE from other nations BB's and never using their vastly superior AP, this is a pretty daft way for BB players to behave.

[Mr_Tayto]

I think it's hilarious, especially when seeing warspites and hoods (a lot of new ones since the recent sale) firing he. They don't seem to realise that my return fire is doing 3-4 times theirs with AP.

 

What really splits my sides is the recent trend of  almost every BB driver trying to start start fires, with every volley.

 

I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. People watch CCs like flamu and expand ship specific advice to general idioms about the game.