Z-39 (upcoming premium) Dropped to TVII

[theta0123]

From the world of warships development blog

 

 

ST, German destroyer Z-39, tier VII

The ship is moved down to tier VII from tier VIII. Ship's stats, as well as her upgrades remain intact - same as they were on her tier VIII iteration. The move is made since the ship's combat characteristics are more suited to tier VII, and it allows the destroyer to show more respectable combat efficiency.

 

Toughts? In a way i like this. Its performance matches more of a T7 DD.

At T6 we have the gaede with 150mm's, at T8 we have the Z23 with 150mm's. Now we have a T7 german DD with 150mm's. It makes it unique. As a premium ship should be, yet not OP.

 

On the other hand.... Its T7. No concealment modification. Thats a painfull one. And well, its T7.. Then again no overtiering and facing T10 ships wich Z-39 would have never handled.

 

So what could be a proper T8 German DD?  I say they look into the torpedos... No not the deepwater ones. Proper torpedoes. Give them long range capability yet not as damaging as japanese DD's. Also buff japanese DD Gun turret rotation.

 

Also...Where is the T61???

[philjd]

1 minute ago, theta0123 said:

 

, as well as her upgrades remain intact - same as they were on her tier VIII iteration.

That would suggest that she retains the concealment module?

[theta0123]

1 minute ago, philjd said:

That would suggest that she retains the concealment module?

 

And also quite frankly, very neccesary.

[BeauNidl3]

We will have to see the results of testing at the tier, but I was totally unimpressed by the review at T8. Without the concealment module it would need the spotting range adjusted or it will be a real lemon.

Quite honestly it looks like a bad idea in the first place with lazy copy/paste of the Z23 with 150mm guns rather than anything with any freshness.

 

I'm very keen to have a premium German DD, but the Z39 review didn't leave me excited at all.

[Allied_Winter]

30 minutes ago, theta0123 said:

Also...Where is the T61???

 

Postponed until further notice.

 

 

 

Greetings

[B0Tato]

42 minutes ago, philjd said:

That would suggest that she retains the concealment module?

gamemodels3d says no sixth module slot right now.

[Allied_Winter]

15 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

gamemodels3d says no sixth module slot right now.

 

So FIVE slots in total? Would fit.

 

Sixth module is for T9 and up.

 

 

Greetings

[B0Tato]

8 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

 

So FIVE slots in total? Would fit.

 

Sixth module is for T9 and up.

 

 

Greetings

Oh well... gamemodels3d oddly shows six slots for Z-23 (T8) and five slots for Z-39 (T7). I just compared those two ships, my bad.

But there is definitely no slot with Concealment System Modification 1 for T7 Z-39 right now.

[creamgravy]

Yay, another easy target for Belfast and Gadja Mada.

 

1 hour ago, theta0123 said:

So what could be a proper T8 German DD?

 

Maybe a Z-39 with tier 8 torpedoes? (or tier 9 torps + 4 150mm guns)

[T0byJug]

As long as she has these Uber Deep water torps she is a no no for me.. Sorry the the Pan Asian DDs with good guns against other DDs and torps against all else works pretty well.

 

But a DD with Torps that can only be used against 45% of ships she meets is just NO

[dasCKD]

2 hours ago, theta0123 said:

Also...Where is the T61???

Seriously, why do people keep asking for overpowered premiums? They're terrible for the game.

[T0byJug]

6 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

Seriously, why do people keep asking for overpowered premiums? They're terrible for the game.

most people that want a T61 just want a German Prem DD... I for one would still want the T61 if they increased the Torp Reload to 90 seconds.. same as Geade

 

The Lack of HP on T61 is made up for by Extra 1/2 km  stealth and longer range guns..

 

This would be a balanced but still GOOD Prem German DD 

[Aragathor]

37 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

most people that want a T61 just want a German Prem DD... I for one would still want the T61 if they increased the Torp Reload to 90 seconds.. same as Geade

 

The Lack of HP on T61 is made up for by Extra 1/2 km  stealth and longer range guns..

 

This would be a balanced but still GOOD Prem German DD 

Agreed, increasing the reload would not harm the T-61, as it would still be quite different from the Gaede.

 

I'm not really a fan of the 150mm guns, so my interest in the Z-39 is limited even at T7.

[Humorpalanta]

So what could be a good TVIII premium KM DD?

 

Maybe a 9,5 km torps, small flooding chance, small damage but quick reload (minimumed out to 55 sec?) ? 6,5 km max concealment?

[clocky]

3 hours ago, theta0123 said:

and it allows the destroyer to show more respectable combat efficiency.

that's WG saying for let's make it OP because nobody will buy it otherwise.

 

Judging from the stats it's a OP ship at tier 7. Almost 20.000 health pool at tier 7. Add a 300 x 7 commander upgrade and we got nearly 22.000 hit points. Wait  what? For a tier 7 DD? Tier 8 guns , 150 mm with a 2200 alpha HE shells. 

 

This ship will reck any tier 7 dd with ease. It's even stronger than the op Leningrad

 

65 knots torps. Haha.

 

AAAAND it will have hidroacustic search ? =))

 

Really dissapointed for the future of  this game. It has transformed into a credit card fiesta with every ship you buy being a victim of power creeping  a few months later.

 

Sad to say this : World of Pay To Win. I stopped financing this game some time ago.

[AnEvilJoke]

4 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Quite honestly it looks like a bad idea in the first place with lazy copy/paste of the Z23 with 150mm guns rather than anything with any freshness.

 

Well, the thing is that Z-23 and Z-39 were iRL copy/paste already, expect that Z-39 was 1,5knots slower and had different (better?) AA.

It is more or less the same as it is with Admiral Hipper and Prinz Eugen (iRL and inGame) aswell as Bismarck and Tirpitz (iRL) or Scharnhorst and Gneisenau (iRL),

 

Problem with the german Destroyers is that all "sane" ships/plans arer already used for the tech tree and what is left of it is either umplayable. not different enough or up to "utterly unbalanced", at least for the game.

 

Tier VII Leberecht Maas is a Type 1934 destroyer

Tier VIII Z-23 is a Type 1936A destroyer

Tier IX Z-46 is a Type 1936C destroyer

Tier X Z-52 is "probably" a Type 1944 destroyer

 

 

While Z.51 was a testbed for diesel propulsion, the Type 1944 destroyer was a production class of large, diesel powered destroyers. They were planned to have a revised armament, with six 128 mm Flak 40 dual purpose main guns, and an all-new anti-aircraft armament, with three 5.5 cm Gerät 58 intermediate calibre anti-aircraft guns and a close-in armament of 14 30 mm guns in seven twin mounts, with eight torpedo tubes.

Five of these ships (Z.52–Z.56) were ordered from A.G. Weser at Bremen and were laid down in 1943, but none were completed, being cancelled in July 1944 and broken up on the slips A further two ships (Z.57 and Z.58) were ordered from Germaniawerft at Kiel, but were cancelled before construction started.

 

 

What is left is either slight variations of already existing ships like:

Type 1934A destroyer

 

Type 1936

 

These 6 ships (of 26 planned) ordered under the 1935 Program were improved and enlarged versions of the 1934 and 1934A classes. Most of the serious faults of the earlier ships had been resolved: engine reliability and the structural integrity was much improved and they were much better seagoing ships, shipping less water through an improvement in the design of the bows. Despite this, five of this newer type were also lost at Narvik in April 1940.

 

Type 1936A (Mob) - Z-39 iRL

 

When war broke out in 1939, planned new destroyer classes were cancelled and twelve additional 1936A vessels (

Z.31 to Z.42, although the last three were to be cancelled) were ordered with slight modifications to speed construction and save materials. "Mob" stands for "Mobilmachung" (Mobilisation). The 150 mm twin turrets had been manufactured for planned, but never built, "O" class battlecruisers. In war service, the engines were more reliable than in earlier ships but at the end of the war, heavy corrosion was discovered.

Seven of this sub-class were built: one was sunk, another two were severely damaged and not repaired. The remaining four were war booty allocated to the Allies.

 

Type 1936B

 

Then there was the "Zerstörer 1938A/Ac" which became the Type 1936B and Zerstörer 1938B which was cancelled:

 

Ships of this class would have been small destroyers designed to patrol and operate in Baltic and coastal waters, but would have had quite big operational range for such purpose, and could have also been used in high seas. Twelve ships were ordered in the summer of 1939, but after the start of World War II, all were cancelled.

 

In my eyes nothing that would justify a new ship and certainly not a premium.

 

There is also the Type 1937J destroyer which is the Z-23 with B-Hull and 150mm guns.

 

And last but not least the Type 1945 destroyer... And yeah, she's no Tier VIII.

 

 

Displacement:	2,700 tonnes (2,700 long tons; 3,000 short tons) (Standard load) 3,100 tonnes (3,100 long tons; 3,400 short tons) (Full load) 3,700 tonnes (3,600 long tons; 4,100 short tons) (Deep load)
Length:	120 metres (390 ft) (waterline) 125.5 metres (412 ft) (overall)
Beam:	12 metres (39 ft)
Draught:	3.88 metres (12.7 ft)
Installed power:	80,000 shaft horsepower (60,000 kW) 4 x Wagner-Deschimag steam boilers
Propulsion:	2 × three-bladed propellers 2 x Wagner turbines
Speed:	42.5 knots (78.7 km/h; 48.9 mph) (Standard load) 39.5 knots (73.2 km/h; 45.5 mph) (Full load) 37 knots (69 km/h; 43 mph) (Deep load)
Range:	3,600 nautical miles (6,700 km; 4,100 mi) (at 19 knots (35 km/h; 22 mph))
Boats & landing craft carried:	2 × Motor pinnances 1 × Torpedo cutter 1 × Motor dinghy
Complement:	350
Armament:	8 × 12.8 cm (5.0 in) L/45 C/41 guns (1,440 rounds) 4 × 5.5 cm (2.2 in) L/76,5 Anti-Aircraft guns (5,000 rounds) 12 × 3 cm (1.2 in) L/66,6 M-44 Anti-Aircraft guns (24,000 rounds) 8 × 53.3 cm (21.0 in) torpedo tubes (16 torpedoes) 100 × mines

 

Yes, there are the Torpedo Boats, which T-61 is a part of but...

 

 

The German torpedo boats of World War II were armed principally, if not exclusively, with torpedoes and varied widely in size. They were not small schnellboote (known to the Allies as E-boats) but small seagoing vessels, the larger of which were comparable to destroyers. During World War II, German torpedo boats were administratively grouped into several torpedo-boat flotillas.

 

Not much there either that is usable.

[T0byJug]

1 hour ago, clocky said:

that's WG saying for let's make it OP because nobody will buy it otherwise.

 

Judging from the stats it's a OP ship at tier 7. Almost 20.000 health pool at tier 7. Add a 300 x 7 commander upgrade and we got nearly 22.000 hit points. Wait  what? For a tier 7 DD? Tier 8 guns , 150 mm with a 2200 alpha HE shells. 

 

This ship will reck any tier 7 dd with ease. It's even stronger than the op Leningrad

 

65 knots torps. Haha.

 

AAAAND it will have hidroacustic search ? =))

 

Really dissapointed for the future of  this game. It has transformed into a credit card fiesta with every ship you buy being a victim of power creeping  a few months later.

 

Sad to say this : World of Pay To Win. I stopped financing this game some time ago.

And deep deep water torpedoes that do nothing against over half the ships in game.

[Dampfboot]

3 hours ago, dasCKD said:

Seriously, why do people keep asking for overpowered premiums? They're terrible for the game.

We want a decent German premium DD. I think that is not too much to ask.

[HMS_Britannia]

1 hour ago, T0byJug said:

And deep deep water torpedoes that do nothing against over half the ships in game.

I thought it was only the ashaio that had super deepwater torps not this dd?

[dasCKD]

18 minutes ago, Dampfboot said:

We want a decent German premium DD. I think that is not too much to ask.

The T-62 was a blatantly overpowered ship that has zero place in the game. She is NOT 'decent', she is utterly broken. Yes, that is too much to ask. Broken and overpowered ships have zero place in the game and the mistakes of the past should not be used to justify mistakes being made in the present.

[T0byJug]

12 hours ago, HMS_Britannia said:

I thought it was only the ashaio that had super deepwater torps not this dd?

Am I getting my DD's mixed up... Bugger yes I am....

[Yanayuki]

While not exactly on topic of this thread, I fear the T-61 will become the next Kidd.

[Aragathor]

15 hours ago, dasCKD said:

The T-62 was a blatantly overpowered ship that has zero place in the game. She is NOT 'decent', she is utterly broken. Yes, that is too much to ask. Broken and overpowered ships have zero place in the game and the mistakes of the past should not be used to justify mistakes being made in the present.

The only thing broken on the T-61 is the torpedo reload. Giving the G7 Steinbutt torps the same reload as they have on the Gaede and the Maass would balance the ship.

[Panocek]

18 hours ago, clocky said:

that's WG saying for let's make it OP because nobody will buy it otherwise.

 

Judging from the stats it's a OP ship at tier 7. Almost 20.000 health pool at tier 7. Add a 300 x 7 commander upgrade and we got nearly 22.000 hit points. Wait  what? For a tier 7 DD? Tier 8 guns , 150 mm with a 2200 alpha HE shells. 

 

This ship will reck any tier 7 dd with ease. It's even stronger than the op Leningrad

 

65 knots torps. Haha.

 

AAAAND it will have hidroacustic search ? =))

 

Really dissapointed for the future of  this game. It has transformed into a credit card fiesta with every ship you buy being a victim of power creeping  a few months later.

 

Sad to say this : World of Pay To Win. I stopped financing this game some time ago.

Z1 (Maass) have 17500hp at the same tier, 19500 with Survivability Expert. And she will outgun Z39 - 5x128mm guns with 4s reload against 4x150 with 7.5s reload. Basically Z39 have the same firepower as Gaede, and that isn't a lot. Actually IJN DDs of the same tier have comparable gunpower. So yeah, so much for "reck any tier 7 dd with ease"

 

If you want "OP", check out tier lower, given for free to everyone Aigle - 5 rather quick reloading, hard hitting guns on a boat with equally hilarious 17k hp.

[dasCKD]

36 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

The only thing broken on the T-61 is the torpedo reload. Giving the G7 Steinbutt torps the same reload as they have on the Gaede and the Maass would balance the ship.

She is a significantly stealthier and more maneuverable ship. Even without the torpedo reload, she would be significantly better than the Gaede even with balanced torpedo reloads thanks to the fact that she would be able to better exploit her hydroacoustic search on top of having better performing guns.