0.7.2 Underwater AP fix

[Crysantos]

Dear captains!

 

Since the release of patch 0.7.2 we received several messages regarding the underwater citadel penetrations by AP shells. Notably , the ships that have a well-protected and low-positioned citadels started receiving more. We did not plan any changes pertaining to this and the first checkups did not show anything out of the ordinary. However, your continued feedback, even in the video form, as well as detailed analysis of the issue, helped us identify the culprit.

 

Currently there is an error, that does lead to increased number of underwater penetrations in several cases. It hardly affects the overall efficiency of the ships, but in those battles, where ships turn their broadside to the AP shell salvos, the changes can be felt. This turned out to be caused by the corrections to ballistics and damage that we implemented in the update 0.7.2, but due to its peculiar and rare nature it did not show itself in our regular testing.

 

We have prepared a solution, which we are testing currently, and are going to apply during the coming server restart. We would like to apologize for any discomfort this might have caused and thank you for your extensive feedback, that allowed us to find the error quite quickly.

 

In closing, we would like to note, that we’ve seen many positive comments about the effects of this error, as it arguably made the game more dynamic and allowed more citadel damage to be caused to several ships. That said, improving the ship damage model is one of our top priorities and we’re preparing a range of tweaks. Not some random tweaks either – conversely, they will be extensively tested, mindfully implemented and we will be sure to share the smallest details with you once they are ready.

 

Thank you for being with us!

Your World of Warships Team

 

[Infiriel]

Sigh...
And i hoped that you finally fixed the Mongqueror...

[Miscommunication]

I'd like the RN BB citadels to stay how they are, after this bug. Fix everything else though, especially German BBs. I keep citadelling Tirpitzes from all kinds of ranges at the moment.

 

[Azalgor]

1 hour ago, Crysantos said:

Currently there is an error, that does lead to increased number of underwater penetrations in several cases. It hardly affects the overall efficiency of the ships, but in those battles, where ships turn their broadside to the AP shell salvos, the changes can be felt. This turned out to be caused by the corrections to ballistics and damage that we implemented in the update 0.7.2, but due to its peculiar and rare nature it did not show itself in our regular testing.

 So the broadsiding scrubs that got punished for it started to complain about this? And it counts as an error/bug? So my personal public stupidity that i cant admit, rather be pushed and written down as a game flaw? Funny.

 Should stay the way it is, the game desperately tried to fix itself, dont ruin it.

[Crysantos]

Thanks for your feedback on this, we'll take it into consideration - we fixed it because it wasn't an intended change, that doesn't mean there's no option for us in the future to make such a change.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

[wilkatis_LV]

2 hours ago, Crysantos said:

We have prepared a solution, which we are testing currently, and are going to apply during the coming server restart. We would like to apologize for any discomfort this might have caused and thank you for your extensive feedback, that allowed us to find the error quite quickly.

So was the fix applied at todays restart and the post is just slightly outdated, or will it be applied next thursday?

[Crysantos]

1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

So was the fix applied at todays restart and the post is just slightly outdated, or will it be applied next thursday?

It was already applied tonight

 

Greetings, Crysantos

[VeryHonarbrah]

@Crysantos however will a change like this actually occur some time in the future?  Personally I dont really mind the monqeror, it was put in the game to stop the bow in meta that entered the higher tiers when german bbs came in, and it eats massive pens from bbs and to kill it easily with a cruiser just shoot ap. But without the ability to cit one when its pulling a potato move is bad for new players creating bad habits. In a perfect situation all bbs should be like the yamamto, warspite or the kongo, all strong, with great guns, but armour that works amazingly at certain angles, mediocre aa, detection ect.

 

Kind regards, a dane

[Allied_Winter]

Well... on one hand it's good to see that between the first initial suspicions and the confirmed fix was a rather short time. So props for that.

 

On the other hand, I can't help but repeat what has been written elsewhere: BBs are somewhat threatened and a fix is instantely applied, DDs suffer from problematic BB AP pens and we're still waiting on a fix.

Not good enough Wargaming!

 

And you wonder why BBs are in the top spots of the today uploaded 'Top Ships 2017' episode.

 

 

Greetings

[lup3s]

12 hours ago, Crysantos said:

where ships turn their broadside to the AP shell salvos, the changes can be felt.

 

Broadside ships should be punished though .. I thought this "bug" was actually quite good 

Promotes proper play (i.e. angling) and punishes mistakes (i.e. broadside)...

[Runegrem]

6 minutes ago, lup3s said:

Broadside ships should be punished though .. I thought this "bug" was actually quite good 

Promotes proper play (i.e. angling) and punishes mistakes (i.e. broadside)...

Exactly.

 

But it's against BBs, which means it must be fixed IMMEDIATELY. Can't have BBs be vulnerable after all.

[Podvoisky]

@Crysantos Can you be more specific in what caused the accidental change in making certain BB's more vulnerable, to which made the game more dynamic?

[_DeathWing_]

[LOZFFVII]

@Crysantos

I thought I'd draw your attention to the following threads:

Riddle me this, and it's not meant as an attack, but more of an actual question:

1. How does look to you when an acknowledged problem with the game's programming that greatly benefits a certain class of ship above others has spent years in existence but has no clear solution taking form, while a more recent problem with the game's programming that actually greatly disadvantages that same class gets fixed in a week?
2. How does this also then look when said ship class is the most popular class in the game by an order of magnitiude?

 

I'll give you my thoughts, please do share your own as (again) I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to guage your opinion on this.

I think that first of all WarGaming knows full well that Battleships are too popular, they have confirmed that the BB population is a 'problem', but I also think that they have completely given up on trying to fix the 'problem' as the 'problem' has become too profitable. This is also why we see an accidental nerf to BB power completely reversed in only a week, while other, less powerful, ship classes are left to suffer the same problems they have suffered for years, because reversing those accidental nerfs would reduce BB power.

I think this is also why the upcoming high-tier premium IJN DD, Asashio, is stuck in Supertester hell, because WG have heard our cries about BB overpopulation but have no idea how to address the actual problem, instead thinking what we want is some kind of gimmick ship only capable of doing one thing. I would go into how I think Asashio should be, but that isn't this topic.

 

I think the above questions are very important and need to be answered by all of our community managers, not just Crysantos, but @Tuccy and @MrConway too.

[MrConway]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:13 PM, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

@Crysantos

I thought I'd draw your attention to the following threads:

 

1. How does look to you when an acknowledged problem with the game's programming that greatly benefits a certain class of ship above others has spent years in existence but has no clear solution taking form, while a more recent problem with the game's programming that actually greatly disadvantages that same class gets fixed in a week?
2. How does this also then look when said ship class is the most popular class in the game by an order of magnitiude?

 

 

1. Let me just reiterate that we are working on improvements to the BB AP vs. DD issues, there should be more information on this soon.

 

While we did also mention that we saw the many positive comments about the recent BB citadel bug, it was a bug nonetheless. If and when we do implement a change that makes these underwater citadels more achievable, we want it to be clearly controllable and tweak-able so we can work with it going forward.

 

The main issue is that the penetration mechanics are incredibly complex and small changes can lead to unintended consequences as we have just seen. Give our developers a bit more time and trust, they know what they are doing!

 

2. This had nothing to do with popularity, there was a bug and we fixed it ;) We would have acted the same way if the bug had affected one of our other classes.

[wilkatis_LV]

2 hours ago, MrConway said:

Let me just reiterate that we are working on improvements to the BB AP vs. DD issues

The only issue there to fix is the bug that lets AP shells do damage multiple times

[MrConway]

23 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

The only issue there to fix is the bug that lets AP shells do damage multiple times

 

This is not a bug though, that's a feature ;) Just simply removing this would have far more ramifications on the game and other ship classes as well. We'll let you know more about the fix when its ready!

[Infiriel]

19 minut temu, MrConway napisał:

This is not a bug though, that's a feature ;) Just simply removing this would have far more ramifications on the game and other ship classes as well. We'll let you know more about the fix when its ready!

Meanwhile enjoy your 4k overpens on DD`s :)

[DasTongle]

Yes fun and engaging.... Glad they fixes detonations in so now i can first be bb aped and instant detonated afterwards... 

[wilkatis_LV]

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

This is not a bug though, that's a feature ;)

Is that just a really bad joke or...?

2...4k per singe overpen

6...12k per single pen

"Working as intended"?

[PapVogele]

Just goes to show that WG doesn’t give a rats *** about anything but BBs as they’re their primary source of income. I know they wont care, but I’m done playing this game. I’m not going to stick to playing a game that is so clearly biased towards a single class and the devs are just going to sit on their hands and do nothing to balance it out.

 

38 premium ships, and I have no idea how much premium time I’ve sunk into this game, but it ends now. I’ve been an avid supporter, but I’m not going to spend anything on this game anymore, and I hope others will follow. Only way to get WG to listen to anything but BB fanbois is to hit their wallet.

 

You have a game with so much potential, but you really only care for the ones that has been crying since CBT, and still cry whenever something hurts them, and its sickening.

[havaduck]

3 hours ago, Infiriel said:

Meanwhile enjoy your 4k overpens on DD`s :)

 

Thats the lower spectrum. Since its a DD it cant be a citadel, but a overpen + a regular pen + a regular pen IS possible. Thats a shot that should do 10 % of the max ap rating doing ~ 77 % of a full citadel instead.

 

But dont worry, shittiest ship is still the cruiser, as its the only ship that can die from just 2 shells from a same tier ship without detonation.

[BeauNidl3]

5 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

This is not a bug though, that's a feature ;) Just simply removing this would have far more ramifications on the game and other ship classes as well. We'll let you know more about the fix when its ready!

 

If that's supposed to be comedy it's an abject failure, frankly it's just reinforcing peoples views that WG as a company doesn't give a damn for many of its customers.

 

As pointed out the BB AP doing excessive damage to DD's has been a live issue for ages that's not addressed, yet a tiny issue that means a BB can eat extra damage is fixed in a matter of days. Take a think about how that comes across and what light it paints your company in, basically it states BB's count and screw the rest.

[chriscripps17]

game centre needs to be fixed asap as i cant play game as updates  wont install says check internet connection  and im connected 3 times in couple days now ran it in compatibility 7 and xp sevice pack 2  and still wont  download updates this is beyond a joke big time

[Boris_MNE]

10 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

This is not a bug though, that's a feature ;) Just simply removing this would have far more ramifications on the game and other ship classes as well. We'll let you know more about the fix when its ready!

 

 

You should edit BB ap damage, feel free to cut it for 80% or more... most of forumites will love you because of that. Like yamato 2k AP or maybe 1,8k.... cheers