Are secondary builds still viable?

[WashedandDeceased]

Hi guys 

 

Recently I decided to dust off my Bismarck and Tirpitz in an attempt to have some secondary fun. After a few games though (all vs. T10) I found it difficult to make this build work. 

 

What has been your experience? Do you manage to get in close quarters combat in more open maps vs tougher opponents or do you save this tactic for when you're top tier? Do you still find secondary builds to be viable or have you transitioned to something else? 

 

Thanks! 

[piet11111]

As a means of damage dealing i never found a secondary build useful only as an anti-DD screen has it saved my ship a couple of times.

[Naesil]

Secondary builds are not optimal, in average you would be better of with tank builds, BUT secondary builds are fun and you can have amazing games with them too.

 

You have to ask yourself do you value being always consistently effective or do you want to have a laugh when you actually kill 3 DDs with secondaries and get witherer and arsonist against BBs in that one game in 20 battles.

 

Bismarck and Tirpitz are actually fine with secondary builds.

[Gatt]

Secondary builds on Bismark/Tirpitz are actually fun. Obviously you have to be pretty aggressive in your playing style and get pretty close to cap zones.

 

Most BBs players are not used to close quarter fights and forget what a Tirpitz with secondary builds and torps can do.

 

You will not do much damage but a rain of secondary HE is very annoying when you are on the receiving end.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

hardly , better sit back and spam he ;)

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

2 hours ago, Freyr_90 said:

Hi guys 

 

Recently I decided to dust off my Bismarck and Tirpitz in an attempt to have some secondary fun. After a few games though (all vs. T10) I found it difficult to make this build work. 

 

What has been your experience? Do you manage to get in close quarters combat in more open maps vs tougher opponents or do you save this tactic for when you're top tier? Do you still find secondary builds to be viable or have you transitioned to something else? 

 

Thanks! 

 

I still have it and I still use it... it is as good as ever IIRC...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[RUSSIANBlAS]

A bit specialist now but I still enjoy mine from time to time. 

 

Feels like I've wasted a 19 point captain however as it's a fairly limited play style. It's got a fairly low skill ceiling, mostly consists of saving enough HP for the brawl then clicking on stuff because of Manual Secondaries.

 

IMO best with Scharnhorst as there's a higher chance of being the top tier face roller.

 

 

 

[Mr_Tayto]

I have a secondary specced captain in my Gneisenau ( <3 ), which I use for Tirp and Scharn. Beyond those it's kind of a waste of points with FP and general tank skills way more useful. Tremendous fun in the sisters and Bis/Tirp though.

[Date_A_Bullet]

I use secondary build on all my german BBs, and iam very successful with them. German BBs also lead my stats in terms of winrate (~60+%), even tho Japanese and American ones deal more average damage thanks to more reliable and powerful main guns, but i have far less win rate with them (~55% with Yamato and Montana).

Building pressure on caps, supporting own DDs and zoning or even killing enemy DDs is what wins random battles in world of warships. And for that task, full-secondary german BBs are by far the best. German BBs also are the only ones that don't necessarily a need full-tank-build, thanks to their natural turtleback-tankiness and very high agility. You simply can dodge/angle against most shells and torps, even on medium distance.

But in order to get any useful results with secondary builds, you HAVE to get at least on medium distance to be effective. If you wanna camp, this build will be useless. Welp, german BBs will be in general useless if you wanna camp.

Again - getting the upper hand at cap zones is what wins games, not damage alone.

[Mr_Tayto]

3 minutes ago, Terendir said:

I use secondary build on all my german BBs, and iam very successful with them. German BBs also lead my stats in terms of winrate (~60+%), even tho Japanese and American ones deal more average damage thanks to more reliable and powerful main guns, but i have far less win rate with them (~55% with Yamato and Montana).

Building pressure on caps, supporting own DDs and zoning or even killing enemy DDs is what wins random battles in world of warships. And for that task, full-secondary german BBs are by far the best. German BBs also are the only ones that don't necessarily a need full-tank-build, thanks to their natural turtleback-tankiness and very high agility. You simply can dodge/angle against most shells and torps, even on medium distance.

But in order to get any useful results with secondary builds, you HAVE to get at least on medium distance to be effective. If you wanna camp, this build will be useless. Welp, german BBs will be in general useless if you wanna camp.

Again - getting the upper hand at cap zones is what wins games, not damage alone.

While I generally agree with this sentiment, my entire FdG grind and the first few weeks of GK put me off full secondaries. Short of a few CQEs at top tier in FdG, I found that at higher tiers I was much less likely to have a target to fire at in the cap, because the DDs either decided not to be seen at all or that they just torpedo form further away. Caps at tier 10 can be made to be torpedo soupy without much risk to the DD.

 

I use tank build with GK because I'm not sniping, I'll push flanks and caps and can last longer against Zaos and enemy BBs etc.

[wilkatis_LV]

I'd say it depends on how you define "Viable"

 

Viable as in "they do work" - yeah, on German BBs, Izumo & Yamato, from what I've seen high tier French BBs

 

Viable as in "fun to play" - yeah, secondary builds tend to be good fun

 

Viable as in "the best choice" - never has been, going concealment with tankiness is always better

[anonym_1YeUldJS8pjx]

I still like my Bismarck secondary build. It's fun to play and it does up to 25% of my damage in those games where I can use them.

Only problem ist the actual matchmaking. Too many T10 games where you can't get in secondary range. The distances between teams are a lot bigger in T10 games.

[RAHJAILARI]

I tested secondary build for Musashi, as that (awesome secondaries instead of AA) is supposed to the main differentiator from Yamato and found it a bit MEH! I like the idea of differentiating BB's but ther damage done by secondaries just does not make up for the trade-off in terms of reduced main gun accuracy and so forth (if you go all the way to take all the module buffs as well. Settled for a standard tank build instead, disappointing tho. I would like to see a viable secondary build as an option for BB's.

[Aragathor]

One thing about secondary builds is that they are very good at making people panic. A DD captain suddenly being barraged by an equivalent of 3 derpy DDs will start making mistakes. Hell, even a cruiser or battleship captain will start turning when the module damage starts rising.

I have a Cleveland specced for secondaries and it's hilarious when I hunt DDs or get an enemy under the 7.6km range, because no one is expecting my ship to fire IFHE HE secondaries at them. I'm going to miss it when the bote goes to T8.

 

[Arakus]

Maybe the new french BB are good enough as secondary build?

The T10 has a standard range of 8km which more the the german BB, plus they are really fast.

 

What do you think about it, is the french BB line good enough for secondary build?

[wilkatis_LV]

7 minutes ago, Arakus said:

Maybe the new french BB are good enough as secondary build?

The T10 has a standard range of 8km which more the the german BB, plus they are really fast.

 

What do you think about it, is the french BB line good enough for secondary build?

I've heard it's usable and those guns seem to be good for it, but I've heard many people saying that those secondaries get knocked out really easy even with the modules to increase their survivability. And that's really something you don't want

[VeryHonarbrah]

Personally I dont bother with a secondary build on most bbs, however I have AFT on everything at least. If I am going to go full secondary build the main guns have to be very accurate in my opinion. So for my warspite I am happy to go a secondary build with the modual, flag and aft. (Side note; I really dont find manual worth it all, over conceal or fire preventation, in addition to the fact that u can only target 1 target at a time, so both sides of secondary batteries cant fire at the same time)

[Lord0]

Of course they are viable.

 

Are they the most effective in terms of winning, surviving and damaging?

 

Not so much

[Isitari]

I know an edge case but the Arkansas Beta is amazing with secondary builds!

[Lord0]

4 minutes ago, Isitari said:

I know an edge case but the Arkansas Beta is amazing with secondary builds!

Is it really? I might try that

[elblancogringo]

1 hour ago, Arakus said:

Maybe the new french BB are good enough as secondary build?

The T10 has a standard range of 8km which more the the german BB, plus they are really fast.

 

What do you think about it, is the french BB line good enough for secondary build?

 I use secondary build on my Alsace and I'm happy with it.

[_DeathWing_]

I suggest to go for sec on tier VIIIs @Freyr_90 but after all it's your choice.

[Turin7]

Using secondary spec on my Gneisenau and I'm loving it. The build stacks pretty well with AA as well so that's a extra benefit and plan to roll with it at least until the FdG. Would probably switch to a tank one for the Currywurst and Tier X in general. 

 

 

[rvfharrier]

Unfortunately I'm not sure they are, and I say it with great sadness because my old secondary-build Scharnhorst was possibly the most fun I've had in this game. High tier BBs without FP and other survival/stealth skills you need to drop in order to enable a secondary build are simply too vulnerable these days when played in a manner that would actually justify having the secondary build to begin with. The skills which you'd need to have a chance to make it work are precisely the ones you need to drop!

 

While a secondary build could come into its own in the later stages of some games, I just don't see it being nearly useful enough often enough to make up for the lack of survivability and concealment that you'd suffer in every part of every game. Might still be a niche for it at T7, but T8 and beyond I don't think they're viable no.

[Corvi]

I’m running full secondary on the French Bb line and found it amazingly effective. Lyon has a metric crap ton of guns that can actually damage cruisers and DD badly, Richelieu also has nice guns with that 3 turrets in the back, the HE rain they can dish out is epic and it saves my [edited]a few times when suddenly a DD popped up behind me and I didn’t have guns on the back. Alsace albeit only having 100mm guns won’t do much dmg, but the amount of shells it tosses done range and fires it sets is insane. I’m getting 30-60k dmg by fires set by secondaries, and a lot of times that was decisive in the win. Republique is a different story again with upgrades guns to 127mm and higher fire chance. It’s like having a Gearing strapped to each side that just hammers away at 12,3km range setting fires left and right. Also works great as DD deterrent and, because of the long range, can be used to flush out ships that camp behind islands as the shells win down from above. 

 

Sure you can have better builds, but it fits my play style very well so I’m running with it with great effect :)