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BNS_Victory

Citadel Iowa

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Yesterday I recieved an insane salvo from a montana. Yes, I was broadside but I did not expect a salvo that completely demolished my Iowa (no detonation). So I looked at the armor layout after game and I think wg raised the citadel a bit.

To test this out I took my Montana in training room against some Iowa's and indead, you can easily oneshot an iowa at close range now. Has this always been like this or do I notice it just now?

https://youtu.be/LgDYBAoaNGs

 

20180310_211411.jpg

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WG massively nerfed the bbs last patch. bbs are now citadelable by cruisers. We all knew they had it coming :cap_win:

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>Citadel a hair over the waterline.

 

"Citadel nerf, it's been raised. I now get punished for going broadside. Ninja nerf!"

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Montana doesn't have this problem. WG did change the meganics when a shell impacts a ship but this is something different.

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you obviously didnt play when montana and iowa citadel covered half of their belt lol

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Just now, Mr_Snoww said:

you obviously didnt play when montana and iowa citadel covered half of their belt lol

I did actually ;)

But then you knew. Now I took my iowa without knowing and got destroyed when turning away.

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Yes, even after US BB citadels were lowered if they showed broadside they still were this citadellable. Stop giving your flat side to everyone and your problem is solved :fish_palm:

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1 hour ago, BNS_Victory said:

Yesterday I recieved an insane salvo from a montana. Yes, I was broadside but I did not expect a salvo that completely demolished my Iowa (no detonation). So I looked at the armor layout after game and I think wg raised the citadel a bit.

To test this out I took my Montana in training room against some Iowa's and indead, you can easily oneshot an iowa at close range now. Has this always been like this or do I notice it just now?

Iowa was not particularly hard to citadel before this patch. After lowering the citadel, it got harder. But still, for even Colorado, scoring 3-4 citadels, at close range, on broadside Iowa was fairly easy before the patch. And Colorado have four less guns. In fact, in some Operation what featured Iowa class, I did onesalvo it with Colorado.

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1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

>Citadel a hair over the waterline.

 

"Citadel nerf, it's been raised. I now get punished for going broadside. Ninja nerf!"

46 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Yes, even after US BB citadels were lowered if they showed broadside they still were this citadellable. Stop giving your flat side to everyone and your problem is solved :fish_palm:

Yes, it was possible before. Doesn't answer if something has changed.

1 hour ago, Mr_Snoww said:

you obviously didnt play when montana and iowa citadel covered half of their belt lol

 

6 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Iowa was not particularly hard to citadel before this patch. After lowering the citadel, it got harder. But still, for even Colorado, scoring 3-4 citadels, at close range, on broadside Iowa was fairly easy before the patch. And Colorado have four less guns. In fact, in some Operation what featured Iowa class, I did onesalvo it with Colorado.

Yes.. in your days you used to one shot bbs left and right :cap_old:

 

 

Question OP is asking - Did something change lately? Yes or No? Flamu argues something has changed about the easiness of citadelling bbs. It's a valid question. Has anyone researched this more?

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13 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Yes, it was possible before. Doesn't answer if something has changed.

 

Yes.. in your days you used to one shot bbs left and right :cap_old:

 

 

Question OP is asking - Did something change lately? Yes or No? Flamu argues something has changed about the easiness of citadelling bbs. It's a valid question. Has anyone researched this more?

The Conqueror is easier to citadel because the citadel of the Conqueror is now flat with the waterline. So I think Flamu's argument is about the Conqueror and maybe the République because that ship has really bad armor design (watch my yt video). Note that the République has a turtleback so what I did in my video schouldn't be possible.

What wg did change is the mechanic of impact. So it's possible that shells now activate when they are in the citadel instead of an overpen. Before this patch it was possible to detonate a bb with a he cruiser shell. Now this schould not be possible anymore, I hope.

 

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2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Question OP is asking - Did something change lately? Yes or No? Flamu argues something has changed about the easiness of citadelling bbs. It's a valid question. Has anyone researched this more?

In general, I would also say that something was changed. But difference in not really as big as the hype behind it. In fact armor currently started do work as expected.

 

But, it has not really changed for Iowa (or for Yamato). They  were fairly easy do citadel before and still are.

7 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Yes.. in your days you used to one shot bbs left and right :cap_old:

No,it is rare, but it was doable before. And still is. If Colorado could do then Montana could do it much easily.

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5 minutes ago, mariouus said:

In general, I would also say that something was changed. But difference in not really as big as the hype behind it. In fact armor currently started do work as expected.

 

But, it has not really changed for Iowa (or for Yamato). They  were fairly easy do citadel before and still are.

No,it is rare, but it was doable before. And still is. If Colorado could do then Montana could do it much easily.

So back in the time when they lowered the citadels of the montana, iowa and missouri, did they lowered the citadel of the montana more as on the iowa and missouri? That seems not very logic in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, BNS_Victory said:

Yesterday I recieved an insane salvo from a montana. Yes, I was broadside but I did not expect a salvo that completely demolished my Iowa (no detonation).

 

BBs showing broadside getting rekt are now a surprise, huh...? I'm not sure if "sad" is enough to define how wrong this game has gone with all this stupidity. :cap_old:

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4 minutes ago, BNS_Victory said:

So back in the time when they lowered the citadels of the montana, iowa and missouri, did they lowered the citadel of the montana more as on the iowa and missouri? That seems not very logic in my opinion.

I do not know, Montana is not a ship I would call hard do citadel at short range either. But the fact is Montana has somewhat different armor scheme.

 

24 minutes ago, BNS_Victory said:

The Conqueror is easier to citadel because the citadel of the Conqueror is now flat with the waterline. So I think Flamu's argument is about the Conqueror and maybe the République because that ship has really bad armor design (watch my yt video). Note that the République has a turtleback so what I did in my video schouldn't be possible.

What wg did change is the mechanic of impact. So it's possible that shells now activate when they are in the citadel instead of an overpen. Before this patch it was possible to detonate a bb with a he cruiser shell. Now this schould not be possible anymore, I hope.

No. Every ship is armored in accordance with its designed usage. Basically the range it is designed do fight in. République, for example, has good horizontal armor. This means, that it is long-range ship.The fact that it has turleback, does not mean that it is hard do citadel at short range. Ships have very high penetration at short range. And Républiques narrow, poorly angled and not that thick turtelback just does not work at short range.And cruisers can citadel it because at certain ranges, their shells can complitely avoid belt and just hit its thin citadel side. And this is realistic, its armor should not work at ranges it was not design to work. 

 

Compare the turtelback on Kurfürst with  République and look how much wider and more angled the Kurfürsts turtelback is.

 

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1 minute ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

 

BBs showing broadside getting rekt are now a surprise, huh...? I'm not sure if "sad" is enough to define how wrong this game has gone with all this stupidity. :cap_old:

I can only say that you are totally right. :D

Bb's schould be punished for bad play, the question is, what is bad play? Everybody knew that a broadside Conqueror could easily survive a salvo from a montana, yamato... (and I don't like that) So is giving broadside in a Conqueror bad play if you wanna use all your guns to delete a broadside cruiser? In my opinion not.  You just need to know in what ship you can do it, and in what ship you can't do such things. I thought the citadel on the Iowa was as low as on the Montana and it is clearly not the case. But why? That's the question of this topic. ;)

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7 minutes ago, mariouus said:

I do not know, Montana is not a ship I would call hard do citadel at short range either. But the fact is Montana has somewhat different armor scheme.

 

No. Every ship is armored in accordance with its designed usage. Basically the range it is designed do fight in. République, for example, has good horizontal armor. This means, that it is long-range ship.The fact that it has turleback, does not mean that it is hard do citadel at short range. Ships have very high penetration at short range. And Républiques narrow, poorly angled and not that thick turtelback just does not work at short range.And cruisers can citadel it because at certain ranges, their shells can complitely avoid belt and just hit its thin citadel side. And this is realistic, its armor should not work at ranges it was not design to work. 

 

Compare the turtelback on Kurfürst with  République and look how much wider and more angled the Kurfürsts turtelback is.

 

Ok there you have a point. :)

 

I think we can conclude that wg did not nerfed the iowa this patch, but that they didn't lowered the citadel as much as they did on montana a couple of months ago. 

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1 minute ago, BNS_Victory said:

I can only say that you are totally right. :D

Bb's schould be punished for bad play, the question is, what is bad play? Everybody knew that a broadside Conqueror could easily survive a salvo from a montana, yamato... (and I don't like that) So is giving broadside in a Conqueror bad play if you wanna use all your guns to delete a broadside cruiser? In my opinion not.  You just need to know in what ship you can do it, and in what ship you can't do such things. I thought the citadel on the Iowa was as low as on the Montana and it is clearly not the case. But why? That's the question of this topic. ;)

 

Deleting BBs in one salvo has been (or at least it was) always an option if you caught one broadside. Of course it was RNG because of the amount of citadels you need for that but I myself had the chance a few times the chance to delete a full health Montana, Yamato, and Iowa. Pretty sure that even if it's difficult to hit the citadel a Conqueror is no exception except maybe the mighty Germans and their strong German engineering armor. Even if you're a BB being broadside is bad play, sometimes you get flanked and you can't prevent showing broadside to someone, but you get the idea.

 

When I play BBs I try to always be angled no matter what BB I'm in and when I want to use all my guns I open just enough to do so, fire and then angle again. The reload is usually 30 seconds so there's no need to broadside that long anyways.

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5 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

 

Deleting BBs in one salvo has been (or at least it was) always an option if you caught one broadside. Of course it was RNG because of the amount of citadels you need for that but I myself had the chance a few times the chance to delete a full health Montana, Yamato, and Iowa. Pretty sure that even if it's difficult to hit the citadel a Conqueror is no exception except maybe the mighty Germans and their strong German engineering armor. Even if you're a BB being broadside is bad play, sometimes you get flanked and you can't prevent showing broadside to someone, but you get the idea.

 

When I play BBs I try to always be angled no matter what BB I'm in and when I want to use all my guns I open just enough to do so, fire and then angle again. The reload is usually 30 seconds so there's no need to broadside that long anyways.

I agree with you but again, that is not the question of this topic. ;) 

Is the citadel of the iowa raised, I think we can conclude that is has not been raised but that it just hasn't been as much lowered as on the montana back in the good days :)

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59 minutes ago, BNS_Victory said:

Is the citadel of the iowa raised, I think we can conclude that is has not been raised but that it just hasn't been as much lowered as on the montana back in the good days :)

The where lowered the same. Montana has better armor than Iowa.

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52 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

except maybe the mighty Germans and their strong German engineering armor

After the newest change their turtle back armor doesn't work anymore. I just had several cases of German BBs getting cited under 10km.

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4 hours ago, Mr_Snoww said:

you obviously didnt play when montana and iowa citadel covered half of their belt lol

And the Yammy was godlike in comparison.

Felt like a kid trying to wrestle my dad when i faced it back in CBT.

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12 minutes ago, GeneralRushHour said:

And the Yammy was godlike in comparison.

Felt like a kid trying to wrestle my dad when i faced it back in CBT.

Back in the day Montana for some reason had 29mm thick deck on entire length, not exactly helpful against Yamato boomsticks

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1 hour ago, mariouus said:

The where lowered the same. Montana has better armor than Iowa.

Look at the armour layout. Iowa's citadel is higher in the water compared to Montana's citadel. 

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2 hours ago, BNS_Victory said:

Look at the armour layout. Iowa's citadel is higher in the water compared to Montana's citadel.

Yes, but difference is very slight.

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The picture above actually shows an optical illusion due to Iowa's primary armor belt being internal. If you look at it like this:

Spoiler

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2018.03.11_

you'll see that Iowa (and Missouri) maintains her waterline citadel she's had ever since it got lowered.

 

So nothing has changed.

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