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MortenTardo

Noob protection

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Alright boys, put on your tinfoil hats and pay attention to the next game you play. 

 

So, Ive been playing BB's for a while(Not main, but i do enjoy the odd game in them). 

 

Recently i've been crossing stats with the players i shoot at ingame. And it seems to be a common thing that cruisers for example can park 10km away from me. Full broadside, and my shells hit everything but the ship. Then go on to check the stats on the guy and usually its a 35-40% WR guy. And they get away with it. Same game i can shoot at the same type of ship, but this guy is actively dodging and hit him with 2x citadels at an angle. Look at the guys stats and its usually close to 60%. 

 

Other cases where you play cruisers and the bad player constantly have 1 shell that goes away from the grouping you just dodged and hits you smack in the citadel. 

 

I mean, it seems to me that bad players get away with stupid crap and good players gets punished for playing correctly. 

Anyone else having the same experience? 

 

CmoFZGMXgAA49KA.jpg.c74856a938c2c6afc69c4a61d8a7c6ff.jpg

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15 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

So, Ive been playing BB's for a while(Not main, but i do enjoy the odd game in them). 

 

Recently i've been crossing stats with the players i shoot at ingame. And it seems to be a common thing that cruisers for example can park 10km away from me. Full broadside, and my shells hit everything but the ship. Then go on to check the stats on the guy and usually its a 35-40% WR guy.

 

Well, it might appear like that to us from time to time. Sure, some players seem to have rented luck. But that's how RNG works. Especially BBs are getting quite some bad shots. But in the end its mostly RNG no matter if you aimed correctly RNG can mess with your plans at any given time. It does not matter wether you are good or not.

 

14 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Same game i can shoot at the same type of ship, but this guy is actively dodging and hit him with 2x citadels at an angle. Look at the guys stats and its usually close to 60%. 

 

Other cases where you play cruisers and the bad player constantly have 1 shell that goes away from the grouping you just dodged and hits you smack in the citadel. 

 

Well that is something I experience alot too. But there is a simple explanation to that: While dodging you might drive into those RNG-Shells that otherwise would not have hit your ship. Happens to me more often than I'd like it to happen especially in my Edinburgh.

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26 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Alright boys, put on your tinfoil hats and pay attention to the next game you play. 

 

So, Ive been playing BB's for a while(Not main, but i do enjoy the odd game in them). 

 

Recently i've been crossing stats with the players i shoot at ingame. And it seems to be a common thing that cruisers for example can park 10km away from me. Full broadside, and my shells hit everything but the ship. Then go on to check the stats on the guy and usually its a 35-40% WR guy. And they get away with it. Same game i can shoot at the same type of ship, but this guy is actively dodging and hit him with 2x citadels at an angle. Look at the guys stats and its usually close to 60%. 

 

Other cases where you play cruisers and the bad player constantly have 1 shell that goes away from the grouping you just dodged and hits you smack in the citadel. 

 

I mean, it seems to me that bad players get away with stupid crap and good players gets punished for playing correctly. 

Anyone else having the same experience? 

 

CmoFZGMXgAA49KA.jpg.c74856a938c2c6afc69c4a61d8a7c6ff.jpg

And here I thought Monday was the big tinfoil-hat day. Guess I was wrong!

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24 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Alright boys, put on your tinfoil hats and pay attention to the next game you play. 

 

So, Ive been playing BB's for a while(Not main, but i do enjoy the odd game in them). 

 

Recently i've been crossing stats with the players i shoot at ingame. And it seems to be a common thing that cruisers for example can park 10km away from me. Full broadside, and my shells hit everything but the ship. Then go on to check the stats on the guy and usually its a 35-40% WR guy. And they get away with it. Same game i can shoot at the same type of ship, but this guy is actively dodging and hit him with 2x citadels at an angle. Look at the guys stats and its usually close to 60%. 

 

Other cases where you play cruisers and the bad player constantly have 1 shell that goes away from the grouping you just dodged and hits you smack in the citadel. 

 

I mean, it seems to me that bad players get away with stupid crap and good players gets punished for playing correctly. 

Anyone else having the same experience? 

 

CmoFZGMXgAA49KA.jpg.c74856a938c2c6afc69c4a61d8a7c6ff.jpg

 

Hm, yep. Same here, although i do not check other players stats unless he starts a stat war in chat.

 

If this were the case, that there is some form of noob protection even at high(er) tiers, i'd spend the next months throwing games until my stats hit the ground and enjoy enjoy sailing broadside on to everyone. ^^

 

It's most likely RNG, which explains why i didn't hit anything with my Gas Can despite them being point blank ( had to do that get one million ribbons in a french BB thingy) and the next day getting citadels left right and center at any angle and distance.

 

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Noob Protection for the majority of the playerbase (45-48% wr) sounds absolutely logical for a business model.

It would help to keep the bulk of the customers happy while they don't have to bother to actually learn how to play better. 

Obviously there is no solid proof, but too many good or unicum players in WoT consistently experience remarkably bad RNG in most engagements to write it off as a coincidence. 

 

I've never experienced anything severe in WoWS but I wouldn't be surprised if WG manipulated RNG in some ways to artificially shorten the performance gap between bad and good players. 

 

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Remember people, just because you can't prove it, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

 

 

I'll just say my own 0.02 Euro on this matter: RNG as a game mechanic is a normalizer:

Players with exceptionally precise aim don't get the full benefit because RNG puts some shells where you didn't aim (and where the enemy ship isn't).

Players with poor aim can get the benefit of RNG putting some shells where they didn't aim (and hit the enemy ship that wasn't going to be where said player originally aimed at).

 

A potato sailing full broadside in a straight line presenting himself as the most cooperative target a player could possibly hope for can end up getting away scotfree because RNG said "no hits for you this time".

A unicum can do evasive manouvres, alternating speed all he wants and some stray shell can fly way off target, hit, overmatch and citadel because RNG said so.

 

As a basic game mechanic, RNG creates a median of efficacy. For good players that means RNG will drag their performance down to a level lower than their skill would result in, that is frustrating. For less good players, the RNG will help improve their performance through the sheer happenstance of luck.

It lowers the skill ceiling and elevates the skill floor with all things RNG dependant.

 

 

 

Now, to complete the Scrub tin foil group photograph:

 

SetWidth940-tinfoil-hat.jpg

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I'm not a tinfoil hat guy usually, but I genuinely believe that theory. I can't help it but think the same way you do, things like that happen to me on a game basis. Sometimes with perfect aim I get basically no damage (lets take a full broadside Mino for example), I check the guys profile, 40% wr. Next game a 60% Mino appears in a same situation, I get a dev strike. Or, lets say I get citadelled from an impossible angle by a 45% wr guy who barely even knows how to aim. Those were just silly examples, and like @Sander93 said, that might be a part of a business model as it will keep a 40% wr guy playing, otherwise if he gets completely obliterated with first salvo every game, soon he will quit playing, this way, by giving him better rng in at least some situations, like not receiving a citadel when he obviously should, or when he citadels someone when he obviously shouldn't, keeps him happy and he continues playing the game

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29 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Now, to complete the Scrub tin foil group photograph:

 

SetWidth940-tinfoil-hat.jpg

Sorry AO. Forgot to include you. 

kek.thumb.png.4f3c84bef89b6359fbf7c1dfce501a43.png

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2 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Sorry AO. Forgot to include you. 

kek.thumb.png.4f3c84bef89b6359fbf7c1dfce501a43.png

 

I'm the one in the middle probably :Smile_hiding:

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1 hour ago, Troublemaker_CRO said:

I'm not a tinfoil hat guy usually, but I genuinely believe that theory. I can't help it but think the same way you do, things like that happen to me on a game basis. Sometimes with perfect aim I get basically no damage (lets take a full broadside Mino for example), I check the guys profile, 40% wr. Next game a 60% Mino appears in a same situation, I get a dev strike. Or, lets say I get citadelled from an impossible angle by a 45% wr guy who barely even knows how to aim. Those were just silly examples, and like @Sander93 said, that might be a part of a business model as it will keep a 40% wr guy playing, otherwise if he gets completely obliterated with first salvo every game, soon he will quit playing, this way, by giving him better rng in at least some situations, like not receiving a citadel when he obviously should, or when he citadels someone when he obviously shouldn't, keeps him happy and he continues playing the game

 

Yes This. ...Totally agree.

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Sometimes it sure feels that way...
I can sink 5 AP salvoes using one of the BBs with the highest penetration in the game, sink 16 shells in BB turrets, and not manage to damage a single one of them one on ONE ship.

Meanwhile, I get shot once, lose a turret.
Repair.
Get shot again, lose both turret.

WAT.
 

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Absolutely came to my attention. It seems that RNG has completely taken over BB play. I dont feel rewarded for an accurate salvo anymore. 

 

Case in point I was in my Warspite today bow tanking against another Warspite 8km away. He citadeled me from the front! Most of his shells should have bounced maybe 1 or 2 pens on my superstructure if he was aiming high enough.. but how the hell does he hit my citadel shooting AP 8km away at my bow?! 

 

It's gotten to the point where my survival rate while in a cruisers has improved because BBs just cant do enough damage to me in a single salvo before i  slip out of detection range and there have been plenty of times when I know that by all rights the enemy player should have deleted me and I got away with it. And I find myself playing cruisers more now because of it.

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Well, if memory serves me right, most (#notall) people who got infuriated at Battlehips in the past (there were 3 or 4 threads around new year) got hit, citaed and/or sunk by "The Stray Shell", just like @MortenTardo said.

 

So maybe, just maybe there is something right about the proposal from said threads?

 

Just as a mind game:

 

IF Battleships had a Sigma of 2.0, then they theoretical couldn't hit anything that is bigger than a Tier VIII Cruiser at more than 10s shell travel time and from 15s or 16s upward nothing at all, right?

So no more camping Battleships?

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5 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

Well, if memory serves me right, most (#notall) people who got infuriated at Battlehips in the past (there were 3 or 4 threads around new year) got hit, citaed and/or sunk by "The Stray Shell", just like @MortenTardo said.

 

So maybe, just maybe there is something right about the proposal from said threads?

 

Just as a mind game:

 

IF Battleships had a Sigma of 2.0, then they theoretical couldn't hit anything that is bigger than a Tier VIII Cruiser at more than 10s shell travel time and from 15s or 16s upward nothing at all, right?

So no more camping Battleships?

So no more camping Battleships? - Not a bad thing in my opinion. I'm an aggressive player and I would much rather push. I'm at T10 and my win rate bounces between 45% - 53% there's a reason for that. Not all battleships are campers but as a BB main if there was a way to make all BB players push in and play the role they are designed to I would have no problem with it.

 

My main complaint isn't the fact that I got citadeled from the front even though that shouldn't have happened. Its that as a BB player RNG has totally taken over the game. If I fire 4 shells at a broadside target and get nothing but overpens but he can citadel me from the front I wont just give up playing BBs I'll give up play WoWs. its as simple as that.

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1 minute ago, Rooke_1704 said:

So no more camping Battleships? - Not a bad thing in my opinion. I'm an aggressive player and I would much rather push. I'm at T10 and my win rate bounces between 45% - 53% there's a reason for that. Not all battleships are campers but as a BB main if there was a way to make all BB players push in and play the role they are designed to I would have no problem with it.

 

My main complaint isn't the fact that I got citadeled from the front even though that shouldn't have happened. Its that as a BB player RNG has totally taken over the game. If I fire 4 shells at a broadside target and get nothing but overpens but he can citadel me from the front I wont just give up playing BBs I'll give up play WoWs. its as simple as that.

 

Sadly most people let themselfs be guided by their feelingZ for their favorite class instead of opening a dialoge to make the game better as a whole for everyone. So the idea was blocked.

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This sounds realistic to me. I found myself getting better at this game when I realised it's like a fairground shooting range; you have work out how off-target everything is actually going to be at any given point in time and compensate accordingly. But cheer up, experts - a noob may benefit from a little RNG protection but the second they have more than two good games on the bounce the MM will uptier them for a week, and that'll wipe the smile off their face.

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So this RNG thing if I'm reading this right, means don't spend money on modules, captain upgrades or flags because do you know what the RNG says weather your going to sink the other ship or not?

 

Note to self remove the extra modules I've paid for!

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4 hours ago, MortenTardo said:

it seems to be a common thing that cruisers for example can park 10km away from me. Full broadside, and my shells hit everything but the ship.

Welcome to playing BBs where you can be as good or as bad at aiming as you like, RNGesus will rule everything anyway :Smile_teethhappy:

 

But if we put the hat on...

 

tin-foil-o.gif

 

Does seem to fit my "sightings", altho I generally try not to check peoples stats, a bit too depressing view

Also I hate when I'm angled against someone who's giving me a flat broadside - and all my shells miss, shatter and bounce while he can just magically pen with every single one.

 

3 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

one million ribbons in a french BB thingy

Jesus Christ, don't give WG such ideas!

 

giphy.gif

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While I understand your source of frustration, I think this will goes against equal human rights. The idea is basically calling for classification of individuals in society, which is reversing the in game social model back to the medieval age. WG will most likely never do it. Plus it could also cut off your chance to connect with some very interesting people in game, who may be bad at the game but you get on really well with them.

 

I understand it is a internet game, but it could be the first small step towards the wrong direction in terms of moral and equal rights, which is what modern society is "supposedly" based on.

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35 minutes ago, Rionage said:

While I understand your source of frustration, I think this will goes against equal human rights. The idea is basically calling for classification of individuals in society, which is reversing the in game social model back to the medieval age. WG will most likely never do it. Plus it could also cut off your chance to connect with some very interesting people in game, who may be bad at the game but you get on really well with them.

 

I understand it is a internet game, but it could be the first small step towards the wrong direction in terms of moral and equal rights, which is what modern society is "supposedly" based on.

Look, you have a 54% win rate. You need to join the tinfoil hat, cry me a river crowd. You can not go around spouting sensible concepts. Bad players are the enemy that WG loves to reward at your expense. Please edit your post to reflect that. ...a bad player could be an interesting human being... puh-leeze...

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It's odd, I have noticed a few occasions recently where I've taken a shot at, say, a fleeing DD and I see one shell split from the salvo and happen to catch him as he turns out to avoid. It happens about as frequently as I've noticed firing a salvo in the same situation and seeing them perfectly ranged only to splash down either side of the target. It's almost as though the distribution of shots is completely random.

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when your 16inch AP salvo gives one bounce, one over pen and one failed to pen against a near broadside 4k hp beached and stationary emerald at 9km  ..its time to play something less RNG like roulette

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Yesterday in Roon I shot a perfect broadsite full HP Tirpitz at 10 km.

 

Got around 13k HP left so lets do this, because we need another kill to win the game.

 

First salvo in his torpedo belt. 3k.

Ok Aim higher noob ... next salvo at his upper belt. 3k.

WTF. Ok .. I suck apparently .... next salvo in his superstructure. 3k.

 

....

 

He fires back.

I already started turning away ... shells flying towards me in a perfect grouping ... all except that one isolated shell.

Im angled almost perfectly (not stern on, but still a very narrow angle) ... I dodge them all ... ALLL  BUT THAT ONE ISOLATED SHELL that citadels me and kills me, and shuts down any chance of our team winning.

 

Did someone else noticed that this usually happens with german bbs shooting you?

Mostly Tirpitzis and Bismarcks.

 

giphy.gif

 

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