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dayofmone

Grinding - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

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Because I'm rather unhappy about the "Gold of France" campaign design.

Posting this in the gameplay section since I am discussing the general problem on the exacmple of the latest occasion, it is not a topic only related to the most recent update.

Grinding is in the right manner a good thing but can quite quickly become torture for the player.

 

 

Firstly, Why do we play videogames?

Because we want to have fun!

What is fun?

Doing what you want, when you want, how you want and how fast you want, is fun.

 

 

And Grinding?

 

The Good

ayqUC0W.png

Grinding up a ship line is fun.

Why is it fun?

It is your choice, nobody forces you to mdo it and you have as much time for it as you like to take.

Fancy something? Go for it as fast as you are comfortable with it and take a break and play another line when you feel like you want to do so.

 

In essence: You don't notice that you are actually grinding something. It just kinda happens because you want to play that ship or for the next in line.

 

The Bad

Bad grinding is the type of grinding that puts boundaries to the above listed factors of "videogames for fun".

With every limit you add to the grind you put stress on a player.

Stress is not fun, stress is work.

Work is not why we play videogames.

 

In essence: It pushes you to do things you don't want to do. Anything that influences how the person goes about playing his game.

This can very quickly become a fun killer. You cut away on a players freedom. That's a no-go.

 

Time limits on the grind push a player to a faster pace than he is comfortable with.

Limiting the ships he can use for the grind pushes him even further out of his comfort zone.

The bigger of a reward you put behind the grind, the more pressure you put on the player and too much pressure is bad.

 

To explain the thought process of grinding I have created "The Playground plot".

vTgD6kY.png

 

The hype

Players get excited about the new stuff and can't wait for patch day to start getting it. Climbing the ladder one step per day.

 

The grind

Patch day has hit the calendar and all the new awesome stuff is in the game. You get going.

 

The Wall of Nope

Breaking point where the frustration wins over the players desire to go on with the grind. You hit the wall.

 

The higher you lift up the players with anticipation, the deeper you can let him fall.

The more pressure you now put behind him during the grind, the faster you send him down the slind and the harder you collide him with the Wall of Nope.

 

Real life example: French missions

I am on purpose drawing a rather simplistic and colourful imagery of the situation.

 

"OMG OMG, Aigle looks so awesome. I'm gonna buy her! And look at those awesome 200% XP missions to help me get the captain leveled faster! And that beautiful camo."

I take out Aigle on a bunch of games and quite enjoy her despite her quirks.

Shorty after the French Battleships get released, I have Richelieu, and again I can enjoy her despite her imperfections.

 

Taking a look at "The Gold of France" campaign.

 

Stage one: Get credits, optionally in Aigle and Richelieu for faster completion.

A decent mission. It pushes me to play Aigle and Richelieu a bit more often than one game per day for the containers, but that's fine for a little while.

 

Stage two: Ribons

So. Many. Ribons.

By now I have played Aigle a lot and gotten slighty annoyed by her slow turret traverse, poor turret angles, lack of concealment and torpedo range, smoke duration and constant loss of engine and steering.

I have lost sight of her upsides.

I played a few games in Richelieu, for the kmission, and her inaccuracy and tendency to overpenetrate everything has gotten me to a little fed up with that ship, too, at this point.
Her upsides are slowly fading away in the distance.

 

Every other additional perceived imperfection in the game now serves as a frustration multiplyer.

Your team got wrecked 3 games in a row?

Usually cause for annoyance, now a major factor of frustration.

Constantly poor matchamking putting you against teams that you can't do much about?

Usually a "Deal with it" situation, now a major factor of frustration.

DETONATION?!?!!! Major factor of RAGE.

 

In essence: The player took out his ships signifficantly more times than he was comfortable with. Cause of frustration. Every other cause of annoyance blows up that bubble even further.

Result: Frustrated escape into Co-op for power grinding, generally being fed up with the game, rapid build up of frustration.

 

10 days into the grind, 50 games played in Aigle and Richelieu total, way more than I ever intended to play in those ships. And there is no end in sight, I haven't even started stage 3 yet.

 

I was baited up the ladder with awesome campaign rewards.

Half way down the slide i realized that I kind of didn't want to go anymore but Wargaming kept pushing harder and harder and I went down the slide of frustration faster and faster.

 

Stage three: XP

So. Much. XP.

All my Aigle 200% XP missions are used up since a week ago.

I have to play those cursed ships even more.

I don't want to.

 

In essence: The player was already fed up doing the mission 3 days ago. Now he is looking towards another 3 - 5 days worth of grind.

The result: Wargaming pushed the player up to hyperwarp speed and he crashed face first into the Wall of Nope. Expected recovery time away from the playground for healing: UNKNOWN

 

 

Overall evaluation

The grind was too much.

Already early on WG put way too much stress onto the player which caused a build up in frustration.

The end result is burnout.

Bye bye game, see you in "ERROR: Time not specified"

 

Problem solutions

Hang the bait a little lower so it does not seem quite so far away.

 

1. A larger ammount of different types of short an easy missions.

1500 ribons in one go? Can barely even see the progress made in one game, can't see yourself getting closer to the goal.

Have a mission with a different requirement after that for a wind of change.

Instead of 3 stages, make it 6 that take the same time to complete in the end.

Show the player the progress he made.
Balance out the rewards in perspective, big ones every second stage, smaller ones in between.

Campaign stage difficultry according to reward.

 

2. Starting dates for stages

ERROR: Unable to accept mission

Start date: in 4 days

Gives the player 4 days of relaxation playing whatever he wants until he gets back to the grind.

Pressure relief is the codeword.

 

In essence: You want this

slide-splash-waterpark.jpg?itok=LIixxWU9


Caution: Slippery when wet.

You don't even notice you're sliding, you only feel the fun.

Flat sections in between for a short break in the action.

Sliding parts not too steep in between.

A nice pool of clear water at the bottom for a gentle catch and more fun in sight.

Overall experience: "Can we do it again?"

 

 

"Gold of France" redesigned - option one

Stage 1: Cut credits down to 75% of the current. The missions were pretty OK to begin with but need a tweaks for the reenvisioned concept.

Reward: 5 containers

 

Stage 2: Earn 300-400 ribons.

Reward: Fleur d'Acier - Dunkerque

 

Stage 3: Play 5-8 games in ships with the specification "X" (Important: play, not win)

Reward: 5 containers

 

Stage 4: Earn 20.000 XP

Reward: The Maid of Orleans - Gascogne

 

Stage 5: 200 main battery hits

Reward: 5 containers

 

Stage 6: Spend 750.000 credits on service and supplies (i.e. ship after battle cost, camo and consumable resupply.

Reward: The Maid of Orleans - Richelieu

 

Task individual adjustments in perspective.

 

 

"Gold of France" redesigned - option two

One mission stage becoming accessible one weak after the other.

Cut down the grind on ribons to something reasonable and less infuriating.

 

 

Spoiler

The Ugly

fEp96hg.png

 

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If only there was any point in grinding the french line.
In case you didn`t notice yet: french BBs are borderline garbage...

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I don't know what your expectation was if you came to the conclusion that the Gold of France campaign was bad/grindy/unfun.

To me it was probably the easiest one we've had so far.

 

Was it perfect? Of course not.

Very limited ship requirements always tend to make the tasks more of a chore.

I personally didn't enjoy the task where you needed to grind ribbons with French BBs. It was a bit too much seeing as you don't normally get many ribbons in BBs unless you park point-blank next to an enemy BB and farm secondary hits.

 

But aside from that specific task I had no problem completing the campaign while still having fun. It helped that I really enjoy the Aigle of course.

Both the 1st and 3rd Stage was done in less than a day, only the 2nd stage took any meaningful amount of time.

 

Please keep in mind that the duration of campaign is 3+ weeks.

Your proposed alternative is something which could fit for a weekend event or at most 7 days.

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5 minutes ago, Infiriel said:

If only there was any point in grinding the french line.
In case you didn`t notice yet: french BBs are borderline garbage...

7 battles in a Dunkerque? you are so the font of all knowledge :Smile_teethhappy:

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godzinę temu, bushwacker001 napisał:

7 battles in a Dunkerque? you are so the font of all knowledge :Smile_teethhappy:

Because you can`t tell that a line is garbage even through you brutalize it. Repeatedly.
Also french accuracy OP, aka you can`t hit the broadside of a stationary Mogami at 5km.

Also i`m wondering why Dunkerque is still in my port.

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1 hour ago, dayofmone said:

1)

Stress is not fun, stress is work.

Work is not why we play videogames.

 

2)

I have to play those cursed ships even more.

3)

I don't want to.

 

1) Then just stop. simple solution

 

2) no you don't

 

3) then don't do it!

 

Why do you bother if it is aparantly that much of a hassle to you?

Because of the three Premiumcamos you can earn with this? Do you even have Dunkerque or Gascogne? Do you even want to keep Richelieu after you got to Tier IX?

 

Also as you can see some (Nechrom) already have completed this in a quarter of the time we have for this. Even you seem to be on the secound mission already so you should be good timewise.

 

So where is your problem? If you want rewards which you can take your sweet time earning them we already got three permanent campaigns and the Operations (except Narai apparently).

There has to be incentives for very active players too and that is exactly what this is. You can't have them all if you don't want to dance to WGs tune.....

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1 hour ago, Nechrom said:

I don't know what your expectation was if you came to the conclusion that the Gold of France campaign was bad/grindy/unfun.

To me it was probably the easiest one we've had so far.

 

Was it perfect? Of course not.

Very limited ship requirements always tend to make the tasks more of a chore.

I personally didn't enjoy the task where you needed to grind ribbons with French BBs. It was a bit too much seeing as you don't normally get many ribbons in BBs unless you park point-blank next to an enemy BB and farm secondary hits.

 

But aside from that specific task I had no problem completing the campaign while still having fun. It helped that I really enjoy the Aigle of course.

Both the 1st and 3rd Stage was done in less than a day, only the 2nd stage took any meaningful amount of time.

 

Please keep in mind that the duration of campaign is 3+ weeks.

Your proposed alternative is something which could fit for a weekend event or at most 7 days.

Excellent summary!

Yes - the least grindy campaign so far, by a long way!

 

Limited ship requirements do make it more of a chore, but understandable due to the French flavour. The one thing I am uncomfortable about is the fact that was less so if you were lucky enough to get a tier 8 ship mission in a container then it was less of a chore (or if you paid for the Gascogne / free XPd/ did a pre-grind of the BB line).  You could do three tasks simultaneously in that case.

 

Good point about grinding ribbons in BBs. I bought Gascogne and found it easy to do BUT IT PROMOTED SUB-OPTIMAL PLAY.

 

I also played the Aigle tasks. My feelings towards the ship must be one of the most "anti" of all the posters on the forum. Even so, the rewards for the tasks far outweighed any pain.

 

Another good thing is that you do the campaign at whatever time you want within a 4 week period - and it only takes 3 days.

I much prefer this to the Xmas campaign where you have to do tasks every week (which means that I can never do these because I'm not available for every single week)

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Infiriel said:

 

Because you can`t tell that a line is garbage even through you brutalize it. Repeatedly.
Also french accuracy OP, aka you can`t hit the broadside of a stationary Mogami at 5km.

Also i`m wondering why Dunkerque is still in my port.

True, I I have been easily sinking Bismarks and Scharnhorsts in my Duke of York over the last few weeks....all German BB's must be obviously shite....I don't ever think it has a thick captain in.....:Smile_sceptic:

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25 minutes ago, Infiriel said:

 

Because you can`t tell that a line is garbage even through you brutalize it. Repeatedly.
Also french accuracy OP, aka you can`t hit the broadside of a stationary Mogami at 5km.

Also i`m wondering why Dunkerque is still in my port.

 

Fun fact: most ships I like to play and can make work, I can also brutalise when I play against them. Does that make them garbage?

Nnnnnnnooooope. 

The FRBB line isn't garbage. Just because you are [I assume] a good player and can defeat most people coming up against you doesn't mean the ships they are in are crap. 

Go try them before you talk them down. 

7 games in a Dunkek gives you just about as much authority and insight to talk about the FRBB's in general, as my 4 CV games give me to talk about CV's. 

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1 hour ago, Infiriel said:

If only there was any point in grinding the french line.
In case you didn`t notice yet: french BBs are borderline garbage...

This is so wrong. Before saying that, you should try them. Look at the stats of french BBs so far, they're on top of charts for average xp and damage per game. This will go down when more people play them but still, they look strong. I would even say they're very good after the experience I have with them so far.

You're another one of those sheep people repeating Flamu's comments on accuracy without even trying the line yourself. Would you give a very high sigma to a BB with all the guns on the bow, or to a BB with 12 or 16 guns?

Man you're ridiculous.

I have great stats with french BBs (for my personnal skill) and dispersion is overall still better than german one. There are other points to take into account before saying a line is bad. 

 

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Well, before i started doing the french campaign, i felt the same that OP is stating: why oh why does WG have to make the tasks so grindy? Why is it, that every camapign is either a grind fest or has ridiculous requirements? What was WG smoking when they designed these tasks? Where they thinking at all?

 

However, once i took a closer look at the requirments, i started to form a plan.

Since i have both, the Aigle and the Gas Can, i can do all of these tasks ( i wanted to complete thenm with honors) and if i choose wisely, i can do them rather quickly.

 

The first set was rather easy, the grindy part were the ribbons - the Aigle ribbon grind was the one that cost me some nerve.

Luckily, the Gas Can has decent secondaries and with a secondary build, i did manage to get that one done faily quickly.

Making some of the missions completeable in COOP was a smart move, which allowed me to complete the second stage tasks for Gas Can and another task in ~7-8 games.

 

The third part was rather easy, again the Aigle one was a bit of a pain as i can't make that DD work (47k average damage, 55%WR :Smile_sad:), but with the help of the Type 59 camos i bought last year for doubloons, it took me three games in the Gas Can, 4 in the Aigle and the rest was done rather quickly indeed.

 

I rushed through all tasks in 1 1/2 days over the weekend, so i'm happy that i'm done with that.

 

 

Reason to be happy? No.

Despite the fact that i made it in less then two days, it was still a grind fest. And not a fun one at that.

  • The time restriction of 4 weeks forced me to play them all in one go (due to RL restrictions, and i would assume, i'm not the only one)
  • without the possibility to do them in COOP i'd probably would have not only ruined my own games, but for other players as well (secondary build Gas Can? Fun, but not very effective and you don't last very long due to focus fire, and for what? 1k ribbons in a BB...?)
  • without the Type 59 camos - which cost me 125 doubloons per pop - it'd take me significantly longer (granted, i have each and every camo there is and that in large quantities, which makes me one of the lucky ones and i can waste a few on crappy games, but does this applay to all players?)
  • The requirements forced me to play recklessly and like most other events/ missions/ whatever, not team play oriented

 

There are a few general points that made me disklike this campaign, or the entire event.

 

  • It has become tradition by now that one task in a campaign mission chain requires you to have a specific ship to complete them all if you want to finish the campaign with honors. You want to grind the missions to get the Aigle for free? Here you go, and here is a campaign which takles place at the same time and requires you to have the Aigle...
  • It wasn't enough to repeat it for one ship, WG did it this time for two ships and while the requirement does not require you to have bought the Gas Can, it required you to have a TIII BB of a line that was released one day before the campaign started. Of course yxou didn't need to buy the Gascogne, you could buy containers where you could get missions to get a free TVIII BB for free (*if you were lucky...or bought enough boxes...). Yes, i know we have 4 weeks time to finish the campaign, which would have allowed even a free to play player to grind the line all the way up to TVIII (...lel) and complete the campaign...which sounds like a frakkin' grind ferst to me. And judging by the amount of french BBs in the queue - and by that i mean the tiers VIII - X, i'm pretty sure nobody ever bought any boxes to speed up the grind.

 

I have no issues with WG monetizing the game, but it feels like they are putting more effort in finding new creative ways of monetisation than actually fixing the things that need some attnetion. I also hate how WG was throwing around high tier silver ships at everyone that would spend enough coin, and allow even more potatos in the high tiers.

Not to mention that selling silver ships - technically it was selling the chance to get a mission for a silver ship, but in the end you payed for a silver ship - is questionable at best.

 

And all these things don't make me look forward with joy and anticipation to the next campaign WG is going to do.

Cause by now, the question i'm asking myself is not will it be fun to play? The questions i'm asking myself is, how much of a grind fest will it be compared to the previous ones?

Will the tasks be grindy or just stupid (Clear Sky for instance -  in the Yamamoto campaign)?

 

 

I'm happy that i'm finished the short but a bit grindy camapign and can go back to business as usual...which means going back to rather grindy and/ or stupid tasks of the permanent campaigns i haven't completed yet (with honors). YAY!

 

 

the Tl;dr: grindy campaign with nice-ish rewards done in the typical WG style, with no regards to how it'll affect gameplay and a new way of monetisation that is on the questionable side of things.  The grind can be shortened if you spend money on ships, boxes and very expensive camos (and use your team mates as sacrificial lambs). I'd like to see a camapign with fun missions, maybe even ones that require team play and are not grindy and without time limit or the need to spend money or force me to play a class that i don't like or can't do well in it. Maybe design the missions in a way that players of each class can get them done...maybe some day...after the CV rework.

 

/rant over

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1 hour ago, piritskenyer said:

my 4 CV games give me to talk about CV's. 

4? I have had 6 and so far unbeaten....this means I am probably the best CV player in the game with 100% WR and all other CV captains are garbage. :Smile-_tongue:

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58 minutes ago, bushwacker001 said:

4? I have had 6 and so far unbeaten....this means I am probably the best CV player in the game with 100% WR and all other CV captains are garbage. :Smile-_tongue:

I have one (1) win. :| I got it by divisioning up with two Yubari's and baiting the enemy Langley's planes into attacking them. Harsh words were told to me. 

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2 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

 

 

By the way.

what's the strong points of the French bbs?

they can't brawl.

they have a smaller calibre

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

By the way.

what's the strong points of the French bbs?

they can't brawl.

they have a smaller calibre

 

 

So far I have played T3-8. Won first T5 in mission played a few games and then got T6 in mission which i played enough to have T7 when the line was released, have played T7 to get T8 even if some were made in the scenario, Richelieu I have only played a few games in.

 

I would say they are a decent JOT ship that must take care of who they face. I have experimented with secondary builds, not that they may be the most effective but to get a different build than my other ships, if I want good main guns I choose other lines. I may well respec them later. In the scenario sec builds works well.

 

T3 and 4 well nothing stands out so far, worse range on the T3 compared with Bellerophon or South C.

Playable, the T4 likewise alright but doubt that I will play the ship like Wyoming or Orion (premiums excluded)

T5 I consider uninteresting, König and Kongo far superior IMO, 

T6 Normandie now its interesting, 12 guns and for its tier very fast, proper target selection is a key I think, Lyon mostly same but her guns is even weaker but there are lots of them.

On T5 and up I have at least 10 p captains on each.

 

Lots of hit chances, I try to aim higher than in other ships, especially uptiered.

T8 I have played too few games to comment. 

 

I keep them all as I am a collector. But who can say no to 12 or 16 guns even if you are a gamer?

My enjoyment is most when I play mid tiers in Battleships so the T6 and 7 will probably be played a lot even in the future.

Higher up I will naturally grind to T10 but will I play much after that , probably not I play mostly some cruisers at high tiers. Have every line except Cvs and FR BBs at T10.

 

 

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4 hours ago, dayofmone said:

Firstly, Why do we play videogames?

 

Because we want to have fun!

What is fun?

Doing what you want, when you want, how you want and how fast you want, is fun.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Ugly

fEp96hg.png

 

Fun is subjective. My fun is to play the game, enjoy myself and try win. For others it is to screw around, ruin everyone elses fun, drool on their keyboards, lick as many windows as they can, and lose because they don't care. When challenged the losers will say 'I play for fun'. My fun is not the same as your fun. I will never ever understand why so many play a team game and then act as if their uncaring actions only affect them. It is selfish and childish. Why should our fun be jeopardised by their lack of ability or intelligence?

 

And this is why I swear at and troll these little loser idiots your honour, they drive me to it.....temporary insanity! But it's the only way I can cope with the stress WG put me under.

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4 hours ago, Infiriel said:

If only there was any point in grinding the french line.
In case you didn`t notice yet: french BBs are borderline garbage...

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/ highly disagree with that statement.
In fact it's almost the opposite.

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I've restarted my French CA grind for these missions and now I've finished the Glass-Jaw, I've been rather enjoying the Algérie. I'm doing missions for the Aigle so I don't have that and the only French BB I've got that qualifies for certain missions is the Dunkerque so I've been repeating the first two tasks to get enough stars to unlock the final missions. I'll go back once I've got the Aigle for those missions and will see how I get on with the BB grind this month.

 

I probably wouldn't be playing French ships at all if it wasn't for this mission set but as I've adjusted my playstyle to them, I've been seeing what they're capable of - lots of DOT on BBs, surprisingly good AP, accurate at long range and a wide selection of citadel hits for the enemy. That said, I'm pretty sure that if the Algérie had been another La Galissonnière I'd have already gone back to another of my grinds instead.

 

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I think a lot could have been alleviated by having these French missions (Aigle, Gold of France, Vive La France Collection) being placed back by a month or two. If you look at it, the requirements aren't that absurd or harsh compared to stuff we had in the past (pre & post event unification).

 

But now they came back-to-back after the grindfest called Battle of the North Cape/New Year Raid, which burned out quite a lot of people due to the last stages of those campaigns (75k XP for 1/3 of the progress, 90k torpedo damage in a single battle,...). Some time to recuperate would have been nice, being able to play the game without string attached without the fear of missing out on something. Same with clan-wars and ranked that follow eachother in the matter of "hours".

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm very thankful for the generosity WG displays (it has been different in the past for our region), and free stuff is free stuff, but having stuff like that spaced out a bit more would have been nice. It also may create an expectation from the community that every other month we're eligible for such a major event, which I doubt will happen. Sure, there is the announced Varyag (T3 Russian Armoured Cruiser) that's slated to be a reward ship according to WG-Fest info, but apart from that, I wonder what else they can "give" away in 2018.

 

image.png.6998474cd321d8d7f04df6184dcecb08.png

 

 

I do have my severe doubts though about the RNG-missions to fast-track the T5-8 BB's though. Stuff like that shouldn't be given away at random. A fixed "do X, get Y" like the British BB's is a better way of handling such releases. And I'm not being salty, as I've been rewarded the T5,6 & 8 already, without spending a single penny on a container, and still have 20+ containers to go.

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Pretty much what @MrFingers said.

 

Compared to the New Year's campaigns, I think this one is pretty good, to be honest. The Aigle marathon is pretty relaxed, and the gold of France campaign doesn't really have any tasks that are that bad, at least if you have the right ships for it. E.g. the La Galissoniere might not be a terribly good cruiser, but it does a pretty good job of farming ribbons.

 

Now with that out of the way - let's talk about Overwatch.

 

"Huh?" I hear you say? "What does that have to do with anything"?

 

Well, Overwatch is a game I've played a lot, and it's a game that has a free to play business model centered around events that are designed to sell you stuff. Let's forget for now that it's not actually a free to play game, because that would just complicate matters.

 

My problem with Overwatch is that I basically never get to just play Overwatch. If there's an event going on, you end up grinding the arcade game modes to get as many loot boxes as possible. And after an event is ended... well, at least in my case I tend to get tired of the game and drop it for a while. And then I pick it up again for the next event. Repeat for a while and you realize that only playing nonstandard game modes for the loot boxes isn't actually very enjoyable, and you just grow tired of the game as a whole.

 

Now, if there were fewer events, you'd actually have time to stop being tired of the game and get a hankering to play more of it before a new event started. And maybe it'd take me longer to grow completely tired of the game.

 

The reason I'm bringing this up is that, while I haven't played WoWS for very long (I started in October, I think), I'm seeing the same kind of event-fatigue here. 

 

There's almost always something going on that required you to: 

a) play in a particular fashion in order to complete some kind of event objective

b) play a particular tier of ship, usually T5

 

There's just very little time where there's nothing special going on and you can just enjoy the basic game in any format you like. 

 

Heck, I can't even remember when I last played a T2, T3 or T4 match. And I have a couple of lines that I'd like to grind up a bit (e.g. German and US cruisers, US DDs) that are just stuck on T3 or 4 because I always end up playing T5+ for some kind of limited time campaign or event going on.

 

Let's just have some time without anything special going on (or a least have the "special thing going on" be available for lower tier ships every now and then) so we can chill out a bit with just playing the game.

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Big issue on those missions are stars for different tier and ship requirements. 

I fully understand that aigle gives more stars per mission but why does WG require T8 BB for big silver ship stars. 

 

Lower the tier by 1 for 4th mission per task, BB missions make them dmg done instead ribbons or cut ribbon requirement by 50 or 25%, so its not about 2ndaries for easy farming or HE spamm,  They are BBs after all. 

 

The last task is ok for all. 

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On 3/7/2018 at 6:23 AM, dayofmone said:

Firstly, Why do we play videogames?

Because we want to have fun!

What is fun?

Doing what you want, when you want, how you want and how fast you want, is fun.

 

I think your definition is way to narrow.

 

While I have little to no interests in missions, others find completing the challenge and receive the rewards is fun.  Their sense of accomplishment isn't define by doing what they want, when the want, but in accomplishing something within a define set of rules.

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I have to disagree with the op that games always have to be fun, do all movies have to be fun? or all books be fun? no, but for you to enjoy them they need to be compelling in some way.

 

For these missions tho, I probably can't finish them with the amount of games I'm currently playing because I don't have a single French ship... so obviously I don't like them personally, but we already get tons of stuff for free, every mission should not be so easy that it becomes pointless to have missions.

 

Let there be challenges for those who actually want to get those rewards. I don't lose anything by not doing these missions.

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On 7.3.2018 at 3:23 PM, dayofmone said:

Yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah ... etc etc 

In essence:  Nobody forces you to do anything you don't want to do so snap out of it and have fun where you can and drop the shite that bothers you ... 

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