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Warhawk1984

Lexington when is WG gonna fix it

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ok enough is enough the ranger was bad but the Lexington is a million times worse it just can not compete with the shokaku or the enterprise and before you give me but your fighters are better BS yes on paper fighter vs fighter the lex's are slightly better than the shokaku but not by enough to be competitive especially against a level 10 captain (which effects the shokaku and the enterprise more has it has more squads to buff with this perk) and is running the 2-2-2 set up (if they run the 3-1-2 just torp ya own ship) you dont stand a chance at winning air superiority).

 

Lexington fighters Vought F4U-1 vs Shokaku Kawanishi N1K5-A

Cruise speed 169Kts                           Cruise speed 171Kts

Hit points 2142                                     Hit Points 1660

Load Out 101                                        Load Out 38

average DPS 69                                    Average DPS 70

 

so per squad assuming level 10 captain (which im sure all tier 8 cv's have or there in the process of re-training.

the 7 fighters of the lexington and the 10 of the shokaku looks more like this.

 

Cruise Speed 169 vs 171 knots

Japs are faster so they can intercept easier and dictate where the fight will be.

 

HP 2142*7=14,994 vs 1660*10= 16600

( more hp in total) split in to 2 squads so more versatility on top of more hp

 

Load out remains unchanged though its a pointless stat anyway as you will see, the only possible use it could have is watching for when the fighters return to rearm after that wiped out your fighters and maybe get a cheeky drop or 2 in.

 

Average DPS 69*7=483 vs 70*10=700

(700 dps would take around 21.5 seconds for the Shokaku to wipe out all 7 of the lexington's assuming no losses) but even

with losses they still got a nice buffer of 16.5 seconds till they need to rearm. compare that to the lexington's it will take the lexington's fighters close to 35 seconds to kill the shokaku fighters.

 

now the strike aspect while it is true that US strike craft pack more punch of the lexington they are still out numbered 6 torpedo planes vs 8 (4,4) torpedo planes again the ability to cross drop shouldn't be underestimated here its a huge advantage to actually do damage. its only the dive bombers that seam to claw anything back for the lexington, the Lex's high explosive bombs are superior.

 

but lets be honest the strike is irrelevant, the shokaku set up for fighters is just superior and when your fighters are gone your strike are either locked down and useless to anyone or are destroyed in short turn.

 

so i go back to the original question when is WG gonna fix the Lexington, its all nice releasing more ships but how bout you open that XML folder and fix the ships in game first ? 

 

 

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Higher priority is nerfing midway. As it was slightly better then hakuryu

 

And now hakuryu is much better again. Japanese CVs still superior nippon steel!

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i am use to Japanese CVs being superior but at the moment unless your against another Lex or a complete ***** you will get dominated its not Japanese CVs being superior it is more that the Lex is borderline unplayable against it or the enterprise

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37 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

so i go back to the original question when is WG gonna fix the Lexington, its all nice releasing more ships but how bout you open that XML folder and fix the ships in game first ? 

Why fix something that works perfectly fine as Free Exp sink?

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Why fix something that works perfectly fine as Free Exp sink?

Sounds like a lazy answer to me, no ship/tank/plane/gun or whatever else you might be playing should be considered a EXP sink to skip, skipping there stock modules yes but an entire tier nope that's where ......balancing comes in, granted with CV's is difficult unless you just go F*** it and make them all the same but lets face it nobody wants clones in a different skirt so to speak.

 

and just using basic math i not only have shown you the "superior" US fighter squads aren't actually that superior in fact because you will fight a minimum of 2 squads there actually weaker and less versatile  

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4 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

Sounds like a lazy answer to me, no ship/tank/plane/gun or whatever else you might be playing should be considered a EXP sink to skip, skipping there stock modules yes but an entire tier nope that's where ......balancing comes in, granted with CV's is difficult unless you just go F*** it and make them all the same but lets face it nobody wants clones in a different skirt so to speak.

 

and just using basic math i not only have shown you the "superior" US fighter squads aren't actually that superior in fact because you will fight a minimum of 2 squads there actually weaker and less versatile  

WG in their wisdom decided to make USN CV inflexible, and current Midway is great example of WG balancing, you get 2x6 TB squadrons made of paper, that die left right and center near any AA, but can nuke low AA ships just fine. It would make a glimpse of logic, if not for Hakuryu having comparable TB strike without durability/speed penalties.

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Don't worry guys, the year of the CV is coming...once they know how to fix this mess, they'll announce which year it'll be.

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4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

WG in their wisdom decided to make USN CV inflexible, and current Midway is great example of WG balancing, you get 2x6 TB squadrons made of paper, that die left right and center near any AA, but can nuke low AA ships just fine. It would make a glimpse of logic, if not for Hakuryu having comparable TB strike without durability/speed penalties.

you may be right IDK but problems for the US CV line start from tier 6 really and progress all the way up from there, at tier 10 it might be a little more balanced idk i will let you know if i get there. 

 

but for the time being lets talk about the Lexington vs the Shokaku or the enterprise both of which has a extra fighter squad and that extra squad will always tip the battle in there favor if you got 2 equally skilled players playing them.

 

It's as simple as this either the lexington is under powered or they are over powered  

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US fighters have more hp and (near) unlimited stafes.....the only real problem is the existence of AS setups for IJN....like the removal of 0 fighter setups and then waiting several years to do the same with US its stupid to just change US CVs and dont expect old meta to dont have an influence..... dont get me wrong if a good played shokaku has more inföluence than a equally played Shokaku thats isnt a problem.......or can you compare a Lyon to a Gneisenau as equal ships to infuence a Battle or a Haku vs a Midway (both before and pre change just with reserved roles)?

 

Just doing the US "quality of live" chages for a class that is force mirrored just dont cut it but thats nothing new giving WGs history towards CVs.....

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12 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

Sounds like a lazy answer to me, no ship/tank/plane/gun or whatever else you might be playing should be considered a EXP sink to skip, skipping there stock modules yes but an entire tier nope that's where ......balancing comes in, granted with CV's is difficult unless you just go F*** it and make them all the same but lets face it nobody wants clones in a different skirt so to speak.

 

and just using basic math i not only have shown you the "superior" US fighter squads aren't actually that superior in fact because you will fight a minimum of 2 squads there actually weaker and less versatile  

Well there will always be one line having the fighter disadvantage.

When it’s 2v2 fighters, Murica should always win click on engagements (except for Saipan), 2v1, the IJN wins. That changes a bit from tier to tier, but one carrier usually gets the worse if that deal.

 

From my very limited CV understanding, the carrier that loses on fighters usually should be more strike heavy.

In other words:

You will lose Air superiority at one point or another, but if you use your fighters to lock down the enemy ones while striking, or if you play defensively and use them to threaten strafes against enemy strikes and fighters inside your own teams AAA, you should be able to be useful to your team.

So either:

- sacrifice fighters To strike unmolested earlygame, but you might be deplaned and useless later,

or

- be passive and defensive earlygame, defend, spot, and try to win air superiority inside friendly AAA or by strafing smartly. Be opportunistic if your opponent makes a mistake and inflict damage lategame with your intact strike groups.

 

Correct me if i am wrong with my limited understanding, but this is how i have understood CV balance.

 

Let me give you an example: I have the Saipan, and she can be notorious for winning Air superiority. So when i played (2/2/0) against an enemy Kaga, he was playing it ruthless and sacrified his fighters against mine to strike our ships. When i was done strafing them to oblivion, he had sunk one of our ships. By the point he had no fighters left and i massacred his strike wings, i started striking back, but it was too late to swing the game and he ended up having more points than me at the end of the game too, and probably had a better influence on the game than me.

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10 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

you may be right IDK but problems for the US CV line start from tier 6 really and progress all the way up from there, at tier 10 it might be a little more balanced idk i will let you know if i get there. 

 

but for the time being lets talk about the Lexington vs the Shokaku or the enterprise both of which has a extra fighter squad and that extra squad will always tip the battle in there favor if you got 2 equally skilled players playing them.

 

It's as simple as this either the lexington is under powered or they are over powered  

USN used to have all out fighter decks or all out strike decks. Lex with 1xTB and 3xDB with 1000lb bombs was quite powerful, but due to no fighters she was hilariously easy to shutdown. Now she loses on boompower while still being counterable, perfect WG balancinks camrade!

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4 minutes ago, dr_julio84 said:

slightly off-topic here: Lex wreck

 

This is what I thought when saw "Fix Lexington".....:Smile_hiding:

 

thanks that was a interesting read and if i was a muti-billionaire i would be sending down tons of inflatables to bring her back to the surface though not sure what sort of state she would be in after 80 years 2 miles under the waves, i know they say size don't matter but who whats a dingy when you can have a aircraft carrier :p

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5 hours ago, Warhawk1984 said:

ok enough is enough the ranger was bad but the Lexington is a million times worse it just can not compete with the shokaku or the enterprise

Not sayingLex ington is fine (obiously she's not) but I would prefer seeing a significant buff of the ranger, because when there is Kaga, Hiryu and Saipan around, you just can't do anything. Especially with the damn Saipan. God I hate this CV.

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3 hours ago, ForceM1782 said:

Well there will always be one line having the fighter disadvantage.

When it’s 2v2 fighters, Murica should always win click on engagements (except for Saipan), 2v1, the IJN wins. That changes a bit from tier to tier, but one carrier usually gets the worse if that deal.

 

From my very limited CV understanding, the carrier that loses on fighters usually should be more strike heavy.

In other words:

You will lose Air superiority at one point or another, but if you use your fighters to lock down the enemy ones while striking, or if you play defensively and use them to threaten strafes against enemy strikes and fighters inside your own teams AAA, you should be able to be useful to your team.

So either:

- sacrifice fighters To strike unmolested earlygame, but you might be deplaned and useless later,

or

- be passive and defensive earlygame, defend, spot, and try to win air superiority inside friendly AAA or by strafing smartly. Be opportunistic if your opponent makes a mistake and inflict damage lategame with your intact strike groups.

 

Correct me if i am wrong with my limited understanding, but this is how i have understood CV balance.

 

Let me give you an example: I have the Saipan, and she can be notorious for winning Air superiority. So when i played (2/2/0) against an enemy Kaga, he was playing it ruthless and sacrified his fighters against mine to strike our ships. When i was done strafing them to oblivion, he had sunk one of our ships. By the point he had no fighters left and i massacred his strike wings, i started striking back, but it was too late to swing the game and he ended up having more points than me at the end of the game too, and probably had a better influence on the game than me.

you are right 1 side will always have some form of disadvantage when fighters are concerned but i would argue the lex doesn't have a superior strike either dodging the lexingtons torps when your in a bb can be difficult but doable, dodging a cross drop on the other hand is impossible torps coming from say the left and from behind you can only really dodge 1 set or the other will hit you full broardside the only thing us ships do better is bombs and there as reliable as a chocolate tea pot.

 

as to playing defensively i do that often, depending on what i am fighting, defensive works to a point. But i often get games when i am spotting a dd with 2 friendly cruisers under me next thing i no red fighters have engaged me. No probs its 1 squad i out number them and i got cruiser support....nope while fighters are tangled in the dog fight, that i am winning above friendly ships, and before i kill the last fighter the other squad turns up strafes my planes and his 1 plane killing the lot and retreating i lose 7 planes he loses 5 +1 from the other squad he won that round 7-6 and i am down to 11 fighters on top of that i got to wait for new fighter cool down leaving his 4 fighters to attack my strike at will if i don't leave them near friendly's which means i aint helping my team but he has no such restraints his strike craft can attack with impunity.

 

how is that balanced? 

 

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13 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

Not sayingLex ington is fine (obiously she's not) but I would prefer seeing a significant buff of the ranger, because when there is Kaga, Hiryu and Saipan around, you just can't do anything. Especially with the damn Saipan. God I hate this CV.

i know what you mean 2 x 3 tier 9 fighters vs 6 tier 7 fighters hardly seams fair and with captains skills it gets worse its then 2 x 4 tier 9 fighters vs 7 tier 7 fighters.

 

so not only does it end up 8 tier 9 fighters vs 7 tier 7 fighters but its in 2 squads to give that added versatility even at killing strike aircraft they can go after two squads at once while your limited to only being able to go after 1

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Im still baffled how i managed a 66% win rate on Lexington pre-buff, without any fighters .. 

 

Oh yeh, Lexi was a actually OP and just needed some brains to play ..

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I actually prefer Lexington over Shokaku, but that's only because strafing with US fighters seems to be way more reliable than with japanese ones...and perhaps because i'm getting too old for micro-managing all of these squads. :cap_old:

 

If you can't out-strafe the enemy CV however, Lexington feels worse in nearly every aspect (less fighters, no cross-drop, way longer servicing times, worse concealment). Well, the AA is decent, i'll give her that.

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1/1/2 is workable. You're pretty much on the defensive the entire time and she does need further loadout adjustment, but if you play in an intelligent manner you can outfight your enemy regardless of what CV he plays.

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I found Lexi to be my best and most fun CV to play in that line, even better than Essex or Midway (which I hate) in my opinion. Bear in mind I started grinding CVs after 2 and a half years of playing this game and hating on CVs.

 

Also faced quite a few AS Shokakus (3 fighters) but most of the time its below average players who play it and stick all 3 of their fighters together, so what I'd usually do is bait his fighters with my DBs or Fighter squadron into my strafe. Same works against 2 fighter Shokaku (and Enterprise ofc, but that CV is a whole different story). It's not easy, but simply requires you to do some further thinking on how to play, and plan your attacks.

 

Or what you can do is click on his 1 fighter squadron that is alone, which is a fight you easily win, meaning he will try to bring the other fighter squadron which you can just kill by strafing out into them.

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11 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Don't worry guys, the year of the CV is coming...once they know how to fix this mess, they'll announce which year it'll be.

year of the CV was 2016 ... when all CVs got a massive Dragon Dildo up ther arses. 

 and yes BBs will pey for that one  day 

 

 

mang

 

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Even with the USN Deck rework, Lex is frustrating as hell.

 

1 fighter simply isn't enough as even bad CVs can outplay you if your own team doesn't pull their weight.

 

Last Lex game I played I stopped a Shokaku snipe, had my fighters strafing everything possible and scored over 100k bombing damage of my own yet we lost.

 

Guess I'll just use my Enterprise...

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On 6-3-2018 at 8:58 AM, Warhawk1984 said:

(if they run the 3-1-2 just torp ya own ship) you dont stand a chance at winning air superiority).

 

Oh really?

 

Me in Lexington vs AS Shokaku:

Pitiful amount of damage - but I had to get rid of his fighters first.

And when I (finally) depleted most of his fighter reserves, our team won by points.

 

X5VPPcs.jpg

 

Nn0KH7S.jpg

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24 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Oh really?

 

Me in Lexington vs AS Shokaku:

Pitiful amount of damage - but I had to get rid of his fighters first.

And when I (finally) depleted most of his fighter reserves, our team won by points.

 

X5VPPcs.jpg

 

Nn0KH7S.jpg

tell me how do you deal with 3 x 5 fighters with your 1 squad of 7 if you do win that fight often i gotta know your secret if you do it once in a blue moon you sure you want just fighting against someone that drools on then self and sticks pencils up there nose making bing bing sounds and has no concept of strafeing

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

tell me how do you deal with 3 x 5 fighters with your 1 squad

 

You play incredibly defensive. Try to predict where and when your enemy is going to strike, be more proactive with scouting and make it clear to the enemy that if he wants to strike anything he is going to lose all his fighters for it.

Then go strike something yourself while your enemy is occupied with losing all his fighters.

And ofc never strike anything if it requires you to sacrifice your fighters.

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