Conqueror is IMPOSSIBLE to citadel!!1!!!1!

[wilkatis_LV]

What a stupid design! Underwater citadel = impossible to hit at ANY distance from ANY ship. Oh, sure someone got that one LUCKY hit, but it's LUCKY and nothing more!!!!!!!1 It's NOT reliable!!! Conquerors can sail flat broadside to everyone and NOT EVEN GIVE 2 EDIT ABOUT IT bcuz they will be NEVER PUNISHED!!!! FIX THIS EDIT ALREADY!!111!!!!

 

---

 

How often have you seen posts like that? I have to say, I've seen far more of them than there should ever have existed.

 

What's most mind blowing is that a lot (if not most) of people posting that seem to actually be quite a bit more skilled than your average potato. And yet - something that I see as so obvious - it has slipped right past them.

 

So here you go fingers crossed it's the last example you will ever need for it

 

 

Hopefully writing this for the last time - just learn where to aim. It's obvious, it's easy, and it's reliable. If my tier 8 BBs can do it, surely your 9s and 10s should have no problems.

 

And for those who still didn't get it - yes, everything above the line was sarcasm.

[Exocet6951]

"If you aim just perfectly right at the perfect spot on an immobile target at the perfect angle, hope RNG works in your favor, then the Conqueror can be citpen'd. Conqueror confirmed weak vs AP"

 

You know what else is said to be impossible to citpen? German BBs. Not because it's not physically possible, but because you need to have the most luck in this game to pull off a shot that hits the perfect spot that doesn't trigger an autobounce.

 

What boggles the mind is the lengths you will go to to try to demonstrate that the Conqueror isn't just a massive pile of poor decisions.

Right now it's playing on semantics. Something that has the credibility of a lawyer bullshitting his way into being right.

[Podvoisky]

7 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

If my tier 8 BBs can do it, surely your 9s and 10s should have no problems

I think would rather criticise the Conqueror then learn how to tackle it in-game. 

Thanks for sharing the video, when I get to T8, this will be a good learning curve.

[Nechrom]

Reminds me of those one in million shots, like hitting the peak of a NCs bow and citadeling him, or getting a lucky citadel penetration through the stern of a Gneisenau with your Indianapolis.

[Quetak]

Probably not this video but I dont believe videos after your Iowa vs. Iowa reliable citadeling on bow ....because when I tried it I had 16k dmg after 20min of shooting - ofc without single citadel.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

IIRC I did citadel the "Conqueror" last night in my "Montana" from about 10 km (and wrecked him otherwise with the help of my teammates)...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[wilkatis_LV]

27 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

"If you aim just perfectly right at the perfect spot on an immobile target at the perfect angle, hope RNG works in your favor, then the Conqueror can be citpen'd. Conqueror confirmed weak vs AP"

Well, I can't make bots move, but - surprise surprise - that doesn't change anything. Perfect angle? That 0.7km shot with NC, yeah. Others? Look at the minimap, all of them are at least at a slight angle, Bismarks shot going furthest away from the perpendicular.

 

RNG works in my favor? It's about as hard to do as to hit high tier US BBs citadel. Just know where to aim and it's no problem.

 

25 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Reminds me of those one in million shots, like hitting the peak of a NCs bow and citadeling him, or getting a lucky citadel penetration through the stern of a Gneisenau with your Indianapolis.

Well that's an awful lot of "one in a million" shots then Try it yourself - it's quite easy to get them.

 

25 minutes ago, Quetak said:

Probably not this video but I dont believe videos after your Iowa vs. Iowa reliable citadeling on bow ....because when I tried it I had 16k dmg after 20min of shooting - ofc without single citadel.

Want more examples of Iowas getting citadelled from the front? Can get them to you. Not as easy as citadelling unangled RN BBs, but still pretty doable.

 

Or just go and try this youself - it's really not that hard to do

[Quetak]

12 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Or just go and try this youself - it's really not that hard to do

sry no more. 20mins shooting in training room for 16k dmg was enough for me to find out that its faaar from reliable.

[FishDogFoodShack]

It is a wonder how Latvia has not won an Olympic gold medal in gymnastics since Sydney 2000, considering how damn skilled Wilkatis is at bending over backwards.

[Nechrom]

12 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Well that's an awful lot of "one in a million" shots then Try it yourself - it's quite easy to get them.

One in a million in actual practical application. Not in a training room against stationary bots.

 

If you want to prove that something can be done which people say is impossible, by all means go to the training room. But citadelling a Conqueror has always been possible, I even did it the first day it was released.

The problem is that it's mostly down to incredible luck in actual battle situations. Ships don't sit stationary so that you can perfectly dial in your aim. And once you start shooting they most often don't give you a second chance at that broadside.

This results in a situation, as with KM BBs in most cases, where you do way more reliable damage simply aiming for higher on the belt. Even less chance to get that elusive citadel hit, but also less shots missing the ship completely.

 

Combine this underwater citadel with Yamato-level belt armor and you have yourself an incredibly tough nut to crack, which as a bonus can also cloak up basically at will.

[principat121]

@wilkatis_LV

Maybe next time without this "music"?! Too lound, too annoying.

 

(maybe this is you music taste - ok - but was your intention a privat video for your own pleasure or a video for the masses? For the latter one maybe considering changing the music?)

[cro_pwr]

You can't be serious...
Oh wait, you are...

 

Look at this guys, there is a pixel wide spot that you need to hit while hes full broadside in order to citadel him! BUFF PLEASE!!

 

But since I allready took the bait, here is the replay of a training battle to show you all those fancy t10 ships that my Amagi can citadel.

 

20180305_150017_PJSB013-Amagi-1942_00_CO_ocean.wowsreplay

Note that I'm citadeling Yamato left right and center with my Amagi, while you were scoring 1 citadel out of 10 hits with yours.
I guess its because my Amagi is magical, or simply is better then yours.
Hmm, maybe my Amagi has better guns, maybe my shells are penning better. Maybe I'm using hax!!

Or I was just shooting  a different target...

[wilkatis_LV]

On 3/5/2018 at 3:19 PM, Quetak said:

sry no more. 20mins shooting in training room for 16k dmg was enough for me to find out that its faaar from reliable.

Well, who am I to stop you from failing. Showed you how to do it, your choice to stay clueless. Never knew that a unicorn could be a noob too

 

(Difference between a noob and a newbie is that a newbie is new - he simply doesn't know. A noob chose not to know)

 

On 3/5/2018 at 3:44 PM, Nechrom said:

citadelling a Conqueror has always been possible, I even did it the first day it was released.

Not according to 90+ % of forum users apparently

 

On 3/5/2018 at 3:44 PM, Nechrom said:

The problem is that it's mostly down to incredible luck in actual battle situations.

Except for the fact that I still haven't had a problem since they were released. There's plenty of chances to fire at their broadsides, and targeting the middle of a BB really is easy.

 

And once again - I can't make bots move. If I could - would show it to you that way. Alternatively if you own a Conq and you want to test it - pm me, we can go into a training room where I'll show you how "hard" it is to do

 

On 3/5/2018 at 4:07 PM, principat121 said:

Maybe next time without this "music"?! Too lound, too annoying.

Originally was that way, but 5 min of "Boom. Silence silence silence. Ding! Boom! Silence silence silence. Ding!" is boring and annoying. It's fine when you are playing, incredibly boring while watching. Music at least gives something. And, I mean, you can always just mute it, I get that music won't be there for everyones taste 

 

On 3/5/2018 at 4:18 PM, cro_pwr said:

Look at this guys, there is a pixel wide spot that you need to hit while hes full broadside in order to citadel him!

Look at this, buch of EDIT unicorns struggle to hit a THIRD of a ships length in the middle of it! Must mean it's impossibru!!! (also look at the minimap - none of them are at a perfect angle, Bismark going off to the side the most)

 

Learn to aim, srsly

 

On 3/5/2018 at 4:18 PM, cro_pwr said:

BUFF PLEASE!!

And where am I saying that? I'm just showing EDIT like you or Quetak where to fire - as you seem to be a bit too EDIT to figure it out by yourselves.

 

On 3/5/2018 at 4:18 PM, cro_pwr said:

Note that I'm citadeling Yamato left right and center with my Amagi, while you were scoring 1 citadel out of 10 hits with yours.
I guess its because my Amagi is magical, or simply is better then yours.
Hmm, maybe my Amagi has better guns, maybe my shells are penning better. Maybe I'm using hax!!

Or I just shot at a different target...

And now point to me where I said you can't citadel a Yamato? Oh wait... You can't.

Also Amagi's not the only one showed there, clearly you didn't bother actually watching through the vid

[cro_pwr]

On 3/5/2018 at 4:41 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Look at this, buch of EDIT unicorns struggle to hit a THIRD of a ships length in the middle of it! Must mean it's impossibru!!! (also look at the minimap - none of them are at a perfect angle, Bismark going off to the side the most)

 

And once again you are lying. At this point, I allready consider you a pathological lier, and I don't even know why I'm talking to you, but whatever.
Only times you scored citadels IN YOUR VIDEO, that YOU POSTED AS A PROOF is when you hit him exactly here:

 

 

Everything else counted as a pen/overpen.
And if thats a THIRD of a ships length, then I'm really bad at math. But ofc, it isn't, its just another of your BS stories that nobody except you believe.

Quote

 

Learn to aim, srsly

 

I think I'm a bit better then you at that part of the game

 

Quote

 

And where am I saying that? I'm just showing EDIT like you or Quetak where to fire - as you seem to be a bit too EDIT to figure it out by yourselves.

 

Nah, you are just showing what everyone else knew before. That Conqueror is almost impossible to citadel, and that you are a rude troll. Watch your language a bit.

 

Quote

 

And now point to me where I said you can't citadel a Yamato? Oh wait... You can't.

 

And now point me where I said that you said that you can't citadel a Yamato. Oh wait... You can't. Its just one more of your tries to spin the story and not stay on the topic presented. Which, of course was, that you will citadel Yamato 10 times more easily, and more reliably. But somehow you managed to ignore that point.

Quote

Also Amagi's not the only one showed there, clearly you didn't bother actually watching through the vid

 

Also, anyone who knows a single bit about this game will know that it doesn't matter if its Amagi, Bismarck, NCal, Izumo, Kurfurst, Yamato, or whatever. You are the only one that needs to say it every single time, because you seem to not know that results are the same.

But yea, keep showing us that you need to hit him 10 times while hes not moving, and is sitting broadside to you, so you can get 1 citadel.
It really helps your case to show how "reliable" she can be citadeled

[mariouus]

32 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And now point to me where I said you can't citadel a Yamato? Oh wait... You can't.

Also Amagi's not the only one showed there, clearly you didn't bother actually watching through the vid

Nobody sayed it can not be citadeled. Just amount of citadels recived per screw-up is very low. Try it with Montana and Yamato.Coupled with its supearheal, its actual damage taken is really low, when compared to other tier.X BB.

[wilkatis_LV]

5 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

Only times you scored citadels IN YOUR VIDEO, that YOU POSTED AS A PROOF is when you hit him exactly here:

 

 

Actually it's here:

 

6 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

That Conqueror is almost impossible to citadel

Haven't run into a broadside sailing Conq that I would have problems punishing / citadelling reliably. As I said - learn to aim (or where to)

 

7 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

And now point me where I said that you said that you can't citadel a Yamato. Oh wait... You can't. Its just one more of your tries to spin the story and not stay on the topic presented. Which, of course was, that you will citadel Yamato 10 times more easily, and more reliably. But somehow you managed to ignore that point.

Ok so by your logic... Yamato can be citadelled so Conq can't? I don't get that viewpoint, seems "a bit" flawed

 

9 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

But yea, keep showing us that you need to hit him 10 times while hes not moving, and is sitting broadside to you, so you can get 1 citadel.

Either tell me how to get bots to move (which we can't do anymore) or take your Conq for a spin in a training room with me. Both options work for me.

[Podvoisky]

41 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

(Difference between a noob and a newbie is that a newbie is new - he simply doesn't know. A noob chose not to know)

Or The difference between a noob and a newbie is that a newbie is new, he simply doesn't know. but he still manages to make a noob (who is not new, with experience) look like a newbie.

[cro_pwr]

2 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Actually it's here:

And thats still not the third of the ship

 

2 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Haven't run into a broadside sailing Conq that I would have problems punishing / citadelling reliably. As I said - learn to aim (or where to)

 

You literary posted a video in which you score 1/10 citadel hits (aka 1 shell out of 10 hitting him are citadels) on immobile target, and once again you are telling me that you are RELIABLY hitting it??
Do you even know what reliably means?

 

2 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Ok so by your logic... Yamato can be citadelled so Conq can't? I don't get that viewpoint, seems "a bit" flawed

 

God you are slow.
God you are REALLY slow.

I gave you an example of a ship that can be reliably citadeled, aka Yamato.
If you bothered to watch my replay, you would have seen that I've scored 8/8 shells into his citadel, while you are scoring 1/10 on Conqueror.
What do you think, who has the advantage? One that takes 100k damage from a salvo, or one that takes 20-30k?

The answer is obvious to everyone but you...

 

 

[mariouus]

18 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

What do you think, who has the advantage? One that takes 100k damage from a salvo, or one that takes 20-30k?

And he also has do consider how mutch of this 20-30k is fully or partially repairable. British superheal repairs regular penetrating hits better (60% vs 50%) than heal on other BB.

[Exocet6951]

33 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Actually it's here:

 

 

 

Err....now there's a large of your rectangle pointing at thinly armored (32mm) plating that not only trigger an overpen, but on which a plunging shell would need to come from obscenely far in order to plunge down into the citadel.

It's more like this:

 

 

So I took the most accurate BB (Yamato) that happens to have nice plunging shells, placed it perfectly 90 degrees to the Conqueror at 10km, and fired.
1 in every salvo is a citpen.
On a perfect target. 
With the most reliable BB guns in the game.

In ideal testing conditions, you're still relying on good RNG to land that shell in an ideal Goldilocks zone where the shell lands just high enough to plunge into the citadel, but not too high as to miss the citadel, nor too low to just hit the water and shatter.

Again, with the most reliable and frankly, the ideal guns to test this out.

 

 

In a perfect vacuum, you're roughly at 10% success rate.
I wouldn't call 10% reliable.

 

Reliable is when you can replicate the result with every shell that RNG doesn't screw over, rather than replicating the result with every shell that RNG blesses with perfection.

[Agantas]

Lion annoys me for the same reason. I just can't manage to win against those two when playing a BB. A broadside on Lion destroyed my angled Missouri with HE at close range. I just can't find a way to damage these ships properly with BB AP. They should make high tier British BBs more citadellable.

[WolfGewehr]

4 minutes ago, Agantas said:

They should make high tier British BBs more citadellable.

 

You are asking for the Moon :P

[wilkatis_LV]

41 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

And thats still not the third of the ship

Ok, a quarter. In fact, when I measure it in that pic it comes out at around 0.22 - still a problem for you? Too "small" of a target? If we go by the Conqs card the length is 272.2m -> x0.22 of it would be 59.9m long region. gearing as a comparison in 119m long. So... If we go by all the claims that you can reliably hit DDs at 15km with multiple shells - surely this shouldn't be too small of a target to land at least one?

 

And then there's the question - since ship sizes are scaled up, but distances are not - is the dispersion area scaled? Because those 59.9m could easily torn into 149.7m if it's not

 

53 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

You literary posted a video in which you score 1/10 citadel hits (aka 1 shell out of 10 hitting him are citadels) on immobile target, and once again you are telling me that you are RELIABLY hitting it??
Do you even know what reliably means?

Each case is 1 to 3 citadels out of 8 to 10 guns fired - did you maybe expect 100% hitrate from a BB? If you watch it you can see those shells deviating wildly - some going high and low, some to the left or right. That's called "playing a BB".

 

56 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

if you bothered to watch my replay, you would have seen that I've scored 8/8 shells into his citadel, while you are scoring 1/10 on Conqueror.

Is that replay even from this patch? Didn't bother bcuz it's lagging like crazy and seems to be capped at 10 FPS

 

Anyway, suffered through it (you might aswell given me a PowerPoint presentation), your citadels on a broadside Yamato 5.5km away:

2/10

1/10

You start to move closer, firing 1-by-1 not as a full salvo

1/10

2/6

 

Next up NC, 5.7km and moving closer

0/10

1.4km and moving closer

1/10

 

Then finally 2nd Yamato

0.7km, your guns are literally so close that they couldn't miss

7/10

0.5km and moving even closer

1/10

 

So your point was...?

You are scoring pretty much the same ( in fact - worse as you are firing at point blank, from my shots only NCs 0.7km shots and Bismarks 2.4km shots are at low ranges like yours - everything else was from Amagis 5.8 (ok, still comparable even if already above your furthest one) up to a distance where Conq without any stealth things is invisible (like 16.4 or something like that))

Also I fail to see that 8/8 that you claimed you landed...

 

1 hour ago, mariouus said:

And he also has do consider how mutch of this 20-30k is fully or partially repairable. British superheal repairs regular penetrating hits better (60% vs 50%) than heal on other BB.

Except for the part where you repair just 10% of citadel dmg

 

55 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

Err....now there's a large of your rectangle pointing at thinly armored (32mm) plating that not only trigger an overpen, but on which a plunging shell would need to come from obscenely far in order to plunge down into the citadel.

I just went with the same height as he, correcting the width. But yes, your rectangles height is going to be better

 

56 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

So I took the most accurate BB (Yamato) that happens to have nice plunging shells, placed it perfectly 90 degrees to the Conqueror at 10km, and fired.
1 in every salvo is a citpen.
On a perfect target. 
With the most reliable BB guns in the game.

6 or 9 guns on target? Also yeah, Yamato's supposed to be the most accurate, but has never really worked for me

 

 

[lup3s]

2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Not according to 90+ % of forum users apparently

 

I'm not sure how good your knowledge of the English language is, but impossible <> unreliable.

[robihr]

yamato doesnt have problem citadeleting things...