Republique turtleback - a fail or something planned?

[elblancogringo]

Hi guys, just saw this on Flamu's YT channel

It appears there is a huge weakness on the turtleback schematic of the french t10 BB which allows cruisers to consistently citadel her.

Is it a feature WG wanted or is this weakness a fail in the conception of the ship?

Whatever the reason, cruiser captains will be happy I guess... 

Other BBs in the line are apparently not affected.

 

[Darth_Glorious]

Working as intended, I don't see any problem with it, you are not supposed to be static and give broadside in Republique anyway.

And in real battle, Republique eats TX CAs for breakfast anyway with its lolpen shell and fast reload.

[El2aZeR]

Republique has a shallow turtleback, which means shells hitting below the waterline only need to defeat 32mm side plating + 40 to 50mm citadel bulkhead to score a citadel hit.

I'd assume that's simply how she was designed. I wouldn't be surprised if WG extends her belt further down to prevent this from occurring however.

[Nechrom]

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Republique has a shallow turtleback, which means shells hitting below the waterline only need to defeat 32mm side plating + 40 to 50mm citadel bulkhead to score a citadel hit.

I'd assume that's simply how she was designed. I wouldn't be surprised if WG extends her belt further down to prevent this from occurring however.

What a silly weakness. But it only really works for shells coming in at a very steep angle.

I want to see what other cruisers can do this.

[Sander93]

1 hour ago, Nechrom said:

I want to see what other cruisers can do this.

 

Henri IV will probably have a field day against broadside Republiques. 

[LDPDC]

7 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

Working as intended, I don't see any problem with it, you are not supposed to be static and give broadside in Republique anyway.

And in real battle, Republique eats TX CAs for breakfast anyway with its lolpen shell and fast reload.

It can be citadeled by Furutaka at her max range and has 32mm against HE, no other T10 BB has both these weaknesses. There are no evidence of it but on the US forum, folks are claiming it can happen at almost all angles. I think this is a clear bug & will be fixed shortly.

 

Did some quick testing and against BBs it seems to be another story entirely: it seems that the number of non damaging pens is way over the board, even on a flat broadside. Has WG invented the armor that let's slip 203mm and not 406+? a kind of low-pass filter armor ;)

 

See picture for how much broadside you have to show to get citadeleted by Zao and its well known plunging fire :)

[mariouus]

3 hours ago, LDPDC said:

It can be citadeled by Furutaka at her max range and has 32mm against HE, no other T10 BB has both these weaknesses. There are no evidence of it but on the US forum, folks are claiming it can happen at almost all angles. I think this is a clear bug & will be fixed shortly.

 

It might be somewhat do easy with French BBs. But impenetrable citadels on BB against CAs are more or less new thing. Back in the good old days, before lowering the citadels on US BB and before RN BBs, citadeling a BB in CA was rather common. This made Moskva very fun ship do play. Because it could citadel NC at any range and Iowa and Montana, when they showed broadside below 13.km, it was hard to not citadel them. 

[Guillotine]

Well if its weakness gone bit too harsh i hope they fix it. Im sick tired if ships being almost immune to citadels just for the sake of bad players sailing broadside. 

[lup3s]

28 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

Im sick tired if ships being almost immune to citadels just for the sake of bad players sailing broadside. 

^

This.

 

* shows broadside, receives citadels

"Omg##%&*$%fail !! no armour plz buff!!!+1!!"

 

Broadside ships should be punished. Easy as that. It's already stupid what they did with the RN and USN BBs (and the Fench CA/CLs). 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

My issue is who on earth has gone for day 1 T10?!? 

[LDPDC]

24 minutes ago, lup3s said:

^

This.

 

* shows broadside, receives citadels

"Omg##%&*$%fail !! no armour plz buff!!!+1!!"

 

Broadside ships should be punished. Easy as that. It's already stupid what they did with the RN and USN BBs (and the Fench CA/CLs). 

This is at 16km, with an angle that is next to auto-bounce, certainly not "showing broadside". See zoomed version of the map.

[Danny202]

Indianopolis. WG fertilized something. 

Spojler

[Aotearas]

4 hours ago, LDPDC said:

It can be citadeled by Furutaka at her max range and has 32mm against HE, no other T10 BB has both these weaknesses. There are no evidence of it but on the US forum, folks are claiming it can happen at almost all angles. I think this is a clear bug & will be fixed shortly.

 

Did some quick testing and against BBs it seems to be another story entirely: it seems that the number of non damaging pens is way over the board, even on a flat broadside. Has WG invented the armor that let's slip 203mm and not 406+? a kind of low-pass filter armor ;)

 

See picture for how much broadside you have to show to get citadeleted by Zao and its well known plunging fire :)

 

Zao AP at 16km steep enough to citadel.

 

Oww yeahhhh 

 

That basically means the only CA left that might not get a sufficiently steep angle to citadel it would be the Moskva.

Even Hindenburg AP developes quite a steep fall over range due to the light shells so I reckon it should do the trick aswell.

 

And CAs like the Des Moines and HIV are just going to have a field day with it (how neat I just recently unlocked my HIV).

Though I'd bet WG is going to fix that armour mistake reeeeaaaal quick. Can't have BBs get punished with citadels for showing broadside to CAs, oh no no no.

[LDPDC]

2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Can't have BBs get punished with citadels for showing broadside to CAs, oh no no no.

Great joke, but this is not broadside at all. At that distance Zao AP pens ~200mm and should absolutely not be able to go past the 400mm side armor angled at more that 50 degrees.

[Aotearas]

7 minutes ago, LDPDC said:

Great joke, but this is not broadside at all. At that distance Zao AP pens ~200mm and should absolutely not be able to go past the 400mm side armor angled at more that 50 degrees.

 

Don't know the exact armour values from the top of my head, but didn't El2aZeR say that the actual mainbelt armour and turtleback on the ship doesn't cover slightly below waterline?

 

11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Republique has a shallow turtleback, which means shells hitting below the waterline only need to defeat 32mm side plating + 40 to 50mm citadel bulkhead to score a citadel hit.

I'd assume that's simply how she was designed. I wouldn't be surprised if WG extends her belt further down to prevent this from occurring however.

 

As for the joke, it was generalized. There used to be a time when ships like the Montana could be reliably citadeled by some CAs if they gave a flat enough side.

If you want the joke to be more technically correct, just replace "broadside" with "sufficiently flat side".

 

Spoilsport.

[Infiriel]

godzinę temu, lup3s napisał:

Broadside ships should be punished. Easy as that. It's already stupid what they did with the RN and USN BBs (and the Fench CA/CLs). 

What
I mean RN is [edited] i agree on that, but US BBs, and french CAs get citadeled all the way.
Moreover french CA`s or actually quite easy to devstrike, since they got very high placed flat piece of citadel armor belt w/o any cover between 1st, and 2nd turret.

[Aotearas]

Alright, just checked the Republique with the armour viewer. The mainbelt and turtleback do apparently not extend far enough below the waterline to reliable protect the citadel from below waterline hits.

 

 

And from looking at the scheme, your angle is arguably the easiest to get citadels at because the shell coming from the front entirely ignore the mainbelt and turtleback as it comes in from a forward angle.

 

[LDPDC]

Well it can be citadelled from any angle < 60° really. People on the US forum have been able to replicate that on GK too so this might stay after all. Got to say I like that quite a lot since Zao is my only T10 :)

[lup3s]

4 hours ago, Infiriel said:

What
I mean RN is [edited] i agree on that, but US BBs, and french CAs get citadeled all the way.
Moreover french CA`s or actually quite easy to devstrike, since they got very high placed flat piece of citadel armor belt w/o any cover between 1st, and 2nd turret.

 

T9 and TX USN BBs' citadel was lowered to the point where you can't no longer reliably hit their citadel (especially with Cruisers).

 

And about the French CAs, then I must have some real bad luck, as I find it very rare to hit their citadel when they show broadside (not when they are angled though ... seems like "good play" gets punished and potatoes get rewarded - but as I said, might just be my bad luck).

[Bbqparty]

18 saat önce, Darth_Glorious dedi:

Working as intended, I don't see any problem with it, you are not supposed to be static and give broadside in Republique anyway

Nothing is working as intended. The armor layout is bugged just like pre-fix Warspite armor.

Des Moines 8"/55 MK16 can only pen around 200mm armor at 14km range.

So you might want to detail this "working as intended" part and how Des Moines can pen the 32mm deck, the 150-170mm armored deck and then the 60mm citadel roof.

And in the clips forget about plunging mechanics on 170mm plus 60m deck armors and turtleback, even without those DM should not be penetrating a flat 400mm belt at 16 km

 

But because WG messed up armor does not extend fully to waterline, so shells just literally ignore Armor

 

Armor is broken and it will probably get hot fixed.

[El2aZeR]

19 minutes ago, Bbqparty said:

So you might want to detail this "working as intended" part and how Des Moines can pen the 32mm deck, the 150-170mm armored deck and then the 60mm citadel roof.

 

Deck penetrations do not exist unless overmatched thanks to the auto bounce mechanic.

This is no bug, Republique's armor is in fact working as designed.

18 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Republique has a shallow turtleback, which means shells hitting below the waterline only need to defeat 32mm side plating + 40 to 50mm citadel bulkhead to score a citadel hit.

If you do the quick maths (*insert meme here*), 72-82mm armor is less than 200mm penetration.

[lameoll]

6 hours ago, Aotearas said:

And from looking at the scheme, your angle is arguably the easiest to get citadels at because the shell coming from the front entirely ignore the mainbelt and turtleback as it comes in from a forward angle.

yes as it was you can close range citadel them as well from the front just like the german bb's 

 

Annyway everyone is now testing this in a training room with stationairy targets.

i wonder if its gonna be a problem in the game tho. most ppl do not know this weakness excists annyway and will not shoot ap at a broadside bb from range. OR they wil  not shoot for citadels

[Infiriel]

 

1 godzinę temu, lup3s napisał:

T9 and TX USN BBs' citadel was lowered to the point where you can't no longer reliably hit their citadel (especially with Cruisers).

I belive this might be because armor belt on Iowa, and Montana is just too damn thicc, aswell as angled thus making any plunging pen below waterline improbable.
Like really - even Iowa has 3-4 times the citadel armor of Republique, and Montana not only gets overhanging armor belt, but also better angle on citadel plating.

Anyway you can pen the citadel of Iowa, and Montana, but you need superior penetration, rather that plunging fire as it is required with Republique

[Bbqparty]

8 dakika önce, El2aZeR dedi:

This is no bug, Republique's armor is in fact working as designed.

Lol. I would like to see WG's clarification on this. My citadel hits on Republique in hindenburgh from max range definitely felt like some weird RNG or bug. Until I saw this thread I was certain it was a one shot but as shown here people can do it consistently.

18 saat önce, El2aZeR dedi:

Republique has a shallow turtleback, which means shells hitting below the waterline only need to defeat 32mm side plating + 40 to 50mm citadel bulkhead to score a citadel hit.

If STs or WG knew this but gave it a pass anyways and this is somehow working as intended. I have nothing to say. I'm not even surprised. Like having 32mm all over the place is not a disadvantage in terms of armor, you also have a fail turtleback that can't even protect you from cruisers because why not? Lol.

[ShinGetsu]

 

Found this.

It seems there is an issue actually.