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HelldiverGr

Japanesse High Tier destroyers? A lost case

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Since the age of German radar Destroyers Japanesse destroyers loosing ground.

I do not know why you nurfed so much the Japanesse. Even Mutsuki in RL had 16KM torps. Now in a mutsuki you might hit something (a ship) and die after.

Shimakaze is not a spotter anymore or can't capture cause of high Tier German DDs. One radar and you re gone. No chance.

I do not even smoke anymore,

such a waste of time.

Please nurf the sci-fi radars.

I am quiting the game soon, my battles are a lost case, not fun anymore.

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And please guys.

Do not reply with comments that I am a noob, do not know how to play and all the other offensive and not helping at all comments. stay in topic please.

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The problem of Shima is not radar. Other DD still perform well in that enviroment.

And yes, WG is working on Shima.

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10 minutes ago, HelldiverGr said:

And please guys.

Do not reply with comments that I am a noob, do not know how to play and all the other offensive and not helping at all comments. stay in topic please.

okay, on topic. German DDs dont have radar. Learn something about the game and get your facts straight before you complain about it please.

That said, yes IJN DDs could use some help, and as has been said they're getting something (let's hope it's something more useful than last time^^)

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I think that just a slight reduction on theyr torps detectability would do, oh and remove Shimas 20km torps theyr from a bigone era. 

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Ja, a buff would be great but not in the arty part, but in the resetting the torpedoes as they were before, but removing the 20km torps as stated.

29 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

remove Shimas 20km torps

 

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I'm slowly making my way up the IJN DD line (currently have T8 gunboat - whatever she's called - and T7 in the torp line); do I gather I'm going to regret it higher up the tree?

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You spot the big ships with Shima. If you encounter a German DD who smokes up and pops hydro, you just stay out of the hydro range and outwait that. At top tier, DDs typically spot each other. You generally want to have an advantage of some kind when you do this with Shima, since DDs spotting each other is typically a knife fight, or maybe the other guy will just try to survive and get away if your fire support has a massive advantage. Read the minimap before you commit into action and pay attention to your radio location signal so that you have a good idea where the enemy DD is. When you have a picture of the situation based on RL and minimap, who is more likely to have an advantage? Has the enemy fire support been scouted by you or another DD before heading into the cap or are you going to gamble losing against unknown support? If the situation is not favourable for spotting the enemy DD, you kite them using radio location and look for torpedo targets. What you need to understand here that your role as the spotter for the team is to spot the big ships, cruisers and battleships. You only spot DDs when it there is a good opportunity to get rid of them or they have bad concealment.

 

German hydro has a bit longer range than your spotting range and you never should sit in smokes when you have no vision. As for radar ships, you should never smoke in their radar range. That's like telling them "Here I am, pop your radar". Your only defense against those ships is that they don't know that you are there. Thus, you should be out of their radar range by the time the torps arrive. You don't linger in their radar range, that is just asking for it. As for choice of torps, use the 12 km ones. 8 km ones have too little range while 20 km ones are too visible and get dodged unless you manage to place them perfectly.

 

I don't know if this applies to you specifically, but a common mistake for newer DD players is that they don't understand that capping is not sumo wrestling. You don't instantly lose the second you leave the ring. You leave the cap if you can't stay inside. When team tells you to cap that DOES NOT mean IMMEDIATELY MUST HAVE CAP. It means that you strive to take the cap, patiently, looking for an opportunity to take the cap or spot the enemy DD when the circumstances are favourable for you. You cap when you can, wait when you can't.

 

And last, remember that Shima is a patient man's ship. You can get that 100k damage with one well-placed salvo, so patiently look for opportunities to do good damage until the end. When the good opportunity comes, it will do much more than that stupid YOLO that happens when you go "Eff it, I'm gonna push it by force." even if you know that it's probably gonna be a bad idea.

7 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I'm slowly making my way up the IJN DD line (currently have T8 gunboat - whatever she's called - and T7 in the torp line); do I gather I'm going to regret it higher up the tree?

Torp reload is going to get longer at higher tiers, so you'll have to plan your torps better and not just spam them mindlessly. Look for broadsides, don't torp bows. Kagero and Yuugumo are going to feel this already and Shima has 2 minute torp cooldown, but their concealment is much better than that of Akatsuki. Yuugumo is pretty much Kagero with better guns and 12 km torps. Shima is much longer ship and no longer has a big concealment advantage compared to her peers. It's pretty much that spotted at 5.9 km for all of them, while Kagero gets spotted at 5.4 km and Yuugumo 5.5 km and thus can stealth spot other DDs for the team and push them out of the cap that way if there is fire support.

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IJN DDs have been nerfed and powercreeped like hell, but surprisingly I'm having quite some fun in them since I came back to grinding them. Going through the Kagerou felt like a blink and the Yugumo is also performing very nicely (and the majority of those games were played solo, since they work better played a bit more independently than as backup for other division ships).

 

Takes more experience to make them work, but they can still be a real threat with their devastating torps if you know how and where to put them. That is something that you might need to work on.

 

Will definately not play the Shimakaze with the 20km torps though, so until WG gets rid of those floating turds I don't think I'll even bother buying her.

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The first TX ship that I unlocked was the Shimakaze - I've yet to be on the winning side (still early days but I tend to not play her).  I have the Akizuki and enjoy that a log despite it's slowish speed and huge size.

 

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1 godzinę temu, Agantas napisał:

You spot the big ships with Shima. If you encounter a German DD who smokes up and pops hydro, you just stay out of the hydro range and outwait that.

Yeah right.
And before you can do that you either lose half health to enemy DD gunpower, or die outright because of a random BB volley.
You can`t do much of a evasive manuver with just 200m spotting advantage (shima vs z52).

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I'm on Kagero and she's playable. However you really can't be dueling any other DD unless they're low HP or they're another IJN DD...

 

At T8 she's weaker than the rest as you're forced into being somewhat passive. You use your superior concealment to help your team outspot the enemy.

 

All I really want is for WG to change the dammn spotting range of IJN DDs to be in line with the rest of the pack as they're currently spotted earlier than anything else.

 

If I take long enough to grind Shima then WG might buff by the time I get there! But please no Torp Reload Booster as that would be crazy...

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1 minute ago, Infiriel said:

Yeah right.
And before you can do that you either lose half health to gunpower, or die outright, because of random BB volley.
You can`t do much of a evasive manuver with just 200m spotting advantage (shima vs z52).

That's why you use radio location to kite the enemy DD and avoid running into him if you don't have the advantage. Z-52 will do his nasty hydro-smoke thing, so just keep clear of that one most of the time. If you go bow on into Z-52, then he'll do his hydro+ smoke thing and grind half or most of your hp off for free before you get away and then it's no more brawling in that game. You'll also need to pay attention on where other enemy DDs are spotted and if possible, be constantly aware of their locations. Shima doesn't have a good spotting advantage against ships like Gearing or Z-52, so you can't keep them spotted. You can keep Khabarovsk spotted, but it needs to be nearly dead (5k hp is too much) before you want to trade shells with that ship and you need to be certain that you will hit it. So, you spot the Z-52 side on or angled away from her so that you can maintain the distance. I generally treat stealth-spotting Z-52 as a random bonus rather than something I'd like to actively do. 200m is indeed too little for reliable stealth DD spotting. When you spot the Z-52, the idea here was that you are spotted too and the situation needs to be such that the Z-52 loses it for some reason. Remember that he still has that smoke + hydro card available while you don't. It's gonna be bad if you get too deep into that Z-52 hydro. Ideally, you'd have a radar ship supporting you ready to radar the Z-52 when you choose to fight him.

 

Big ships means cruisers and battleships. You only spot DDs when your side has the advantage that wins the fight for you. Clearly you don't have an advantage if there's a high chance of a random BB shaving off a big chunk of your HP with his volley. That kind of stuff loses you knife fights, you know. If the BB is a threat, he needs to die before you can spot the Z-52.

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Akizuki: awesome

Shima: almost awesome, will see post-buff

Yuugumo: awesome

Kagero: hard, but awesome

 

Sorry mate.

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The only thing that hampers Shimakaze is the fact that apart from the Russian non-DDs-labelled-DDs she can literally be "outspotted" by every other DD and will easily be outspotted by her predecessors. Just give her 5.4 visibility and let the whining begin...

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42 minuty temu, Agantas napisał:

You can keep Khabarovsk spotted

No you can`t, because any half decent Khaba will know that he`s spotted by a DD, and run RPF.
And not even Shima can outrun an angry Khaba.

 

42 minuty temu, Agantas napisał:

Clearly you don't have an advantage if there's a high chance of a random BB shaving off a big chunk of your HP with his volley.

It`s not like the entire map starts shooting you if you ever get spotted in an IJN DD.

What i mean is that with all the additions of torpedo, and DD spotting gimmicks the DD line that most of them all relies on stealth got nerfed the hardest. Really IJN already has the worst concealment on their torps anyway for "A reason" so US gunships can actually torp more effectively than "specialized torpedoboats", and i`m not even touching PA line because it`s just a sick joke at this point. Oh, and since you are a "specialized torpedoboat" you also get the shittiest guns in all DD lines - again - for "A reason".

I still belive IJN DD line is in a desperate need of a buff.

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IJN dds are ok, the thing that is not ok its their torp concealment, they are mediocre boats that rely on torps, but their torps are spotted from the moon

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9 minutes ago, Infiriel said:

No you can`t, because any half decent Khaba will know that he`s spotted by a DD, and run RPF.
And not even Shima can outrun an angry Khaba.

 

 

Lolwat?

 

I can tell by that comment alone that you don't play the Khabarovsk at all, probably not even any form of higher tier russian gunboat DDs. RPF on Khabarovsk is a complete waste. You use those captain skill points to boost your guns and your ship's survivability.

Hell, sometimes I already feel like an outcast for still using the concealment modification instead of the steering gears mod. 3.

 

Besides, even though a Shima can't outrun a Khaba, most of the time she doesn't have to. Running after a Shima also means risking running into Shima torps. They aren't the stealthiest around, but a Khaba barreling at 48 knots towards 68 knots torps doesn't leave much in the way of reaction time and even if you'd use a full manouverability build the Khaba isn't exactly a graceful ballerina that can just dance around 15 torps in a heartbeat. Take just one of those and a full HP Khaba is suddenly quite killable by a Shima alone ... and if the Shima has any sense whatsoever he isn't going to run places willynilly, but run screaming back to his friends begging for help. And if those guys start shooting you, chasing a Shima isn't going to be your prime concern for long.

 

And let's just assume you're in a full manouverability build (that means 9,7km surface detectability with camouflage), that RPF doesn't need to be pointing at a DD. What you think might be a squishy Shimakaze might just aswell be his Zao or Minotaur buddy and they'll still see you sooner than you see them. You can take a guess what a Khaba player thinks when he runs headfirst into a Minotaur, but I'll give you a hint: it starts with "s" and ends with "hit".

Even if you use the concealment modification to get your detectability down to 8,7km surface (like I do), that's still not much of an improvement because by the time you saw what you're running into and started turning around you already drifted inside detectability distance and then it's good luck hauling [edited]the other direction.

I'm not even going to consider a full stealth build (7,7km) or using smoke instead of heal, because at that point by all accounts we should simply be talking about an entirely different DD. You want subtle vodka, go Grozovoy.

 

 

Maybe I'm not half decent in my Khaba, but that's my experience from sailing mine and being on the business end of those 130mm cannons in non-russian DDs.

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5 hours ago, HelldiverGr said:

Even Mutsuki in RL had 16KM torps.

 

Well, technically, even more than that.

 

5 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

WG is working on Shima

 

This is actually more scary than reassuring.

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5 minutes ago, LastButterfly said:

This is actually more scary than reassuring.

 

Shima really only needs two changes:

  • Get rid of the hilariously bad 20km torps
  • Lower the torpedo spotting distance on the remaining choices a bit

That alone should make the Shima into a great torpboat. She already has an amazing torpedo alpha (both in individual torp damage aswell as total number off torps she can throw out in one volley), just make the torps a wee bit more reliable and it should do the trick.

If any additional buffs prove to be needed one can work from there.

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21 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Shima really only needs two changes:

  • Get rid of the hilariously bad 20km torps
  • Lower the torpedo spotting distance on the remaining choices a bit

That alone should make the Shima into a great torpboat. She already has an amazing torpedo alpha (both in individual torp damage aswell as total number off torps she can throw out in one volley), just make the torps a wee bit more reliable and it should do the trick.

If any additional buffs prove to be needed one can work from there.

 

And you trust WG to do just that ? >.<

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2 minutos antes, LastButterfly dijo:

 

And you trust WG to do just that ? >.<

 

You already know what's on WG's mind. Those 20 km DW torps being tested on the Asashio :Smile_facepalm:

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5 hours ago, aboomination said:

It's your first t10, that's gotta be rough. I heard that they plan on buffing Shima.

My first (and so far only bought; got Gearing and Yamato researched) T10. Don't really have that much of an issue, but then I'm used to the line and have been playing it since I started the game.

 

27 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Besides, even though a Shima can't outrun a Khaba, most of the time she doesn't have to.

I can also add that if the Khaba only needs to outrun you, you're way out of position. Shimakaze is a great flanker, but that doesn't hold up if there are good counters to that, like Khaba or CVs. Shimakaze can outrun pretty much everything else.

 

15 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Shima really only needs two changes:

  • Get rid of the hilariously bad 20km torps
  • Lower the torpedo spotting distance on the remaining choices a bit

I don't think getting rid of the 20 km torps would do anything other than removing a small part of the grind, since no one competent uses them anyway outside lulz. That said, they kinda work with Torpedo Acceleration. Or at least, they did way back with the old T9 Kagero.

 

Personally, I'd prefer a 200 m detectability buff. Shimakaze has working guns, but they're still the worst of the T10 DD guns. All the rest of the IJN DDs are stealth ships. There's really no reason why Shimakaze should have the same stealth as gunboats that outshoot her so hard you don't have a chance unless you face a potato.

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