Overpenetration

[hollowbaron]

I play bb ca/cl dd. Since the over penetration mostly on dd from bb gets mentioned a lot. I suggest an alternative. Instead of the basic damage from say ap on a dd, why not have every ap overpen instead of causing damage, should have a high chance of causing flooding instead just like a dd torp. This way it is not only historically and physically accurate, it also balanced things for both sides better I guess.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

What is mentioned a lot aren't overpens on DDs. The problem are multipenetrations where one shell does far more damage than what should be possible. And maybe the amount of regular pens.

[BeauNidl3]

Well if the cooldown on DD and CA/CL Damage Control party is reduced to 5s with infinite charges fine, otherwise it's just a massive buff to BB's and a nerf to DD's and light cruisers. Your idea doesn't create an improvement to balance, quite the opposite, it's just a death sentence for anything other than BB's.

 

Silly idea - This is a game not a reality simulator, if it was reality then BB's would barely land 5% of their shells, would be incredibly rare and all the maps would be Ocean. Oh plus all ships would have smoke and use it to turn under on demand without a cooldown.

[eliastion]

59 minutes ago, hollowbaron said:

I play bb ca/cl dd. Since the over penetration mostly on dd from bb gets mentioned a lot. I suggest an alternative. Instead of the basic damage from say ap on a dd, why not have every ap overpen instead of causing damage, should have a high chance of causing flooding instead just like a dd torp. This way it is not only historically and physically accurate, it also balanced things for both sides better I guess.

There's nothing historically/physically acurate in overpens causing flooding when you realize what "flooding" status represents in this game. It's not just a hole that causes water to leak inside, no. It's the kind of hole that SOMETIMES happens when a torpedo detonates on your hull. Think about it: you can eat several torpedoes (especially airdropped ones) and not suffer a flooding.

 

In WoWs a "flooding" represents a truly catastrophic leak, an underwater hole a couple meters wide. It's in a completely different dimension to whatever an AP overpenetration could conceivably cause.

[hollowbaron]

I think its frustration on both sides. When in dd I get pissed off with radio location and someone spamming left right as they know someone is there and almost looks like their protecting the cv who in turn does not care about them.

 

While in anything heavy its frustrating when a dd is 6km away and many of of the shells hit but because of overpen they do 1k damage from full salvo.

 

I think in general a solution is to move away from the power creep penetration based gameplay on wot and move towards a more punishing game where mistakes are far more costly.

 

As in reality in a game between tier 5-10 all were doing is spamming a mix of ap and he and deciding which based on time of reload and time to travel. While doing maybe 5k most in one he salvo.

 

Id rather get deleted early on if I make a mistake and I cant recover from it than spend rest of battle hiding away firing he while still getting spotted.

 

Imagine a duel between two men over some dispute. One carries a katana and the other a claymore. While the merits of each weapon are epic, the duel will hardly end in a stale mate where both have bruised fingers and need surgery to seperate from mouse.

 

In wows claymore and katana are both made out of plastic and could not lob a head off a tuna caught in a net. Instead its like playing a porno version of tennis where both sides lose from exhaustion, at doing less damage to plastic surgery than agent oranges polygami

[nambr9]

Let me get this straight ...

 

From the AP DMG on DD problem you come up with the solution where BBs always overpen DDs (and still cause large amount of dmg) and also cause flooding (when flooding your ship speed is reduced - you are crippled) ??!!??? Am i getting this right?

 

 

The 1k dmg on full salvo is a lie.

You are not fooling me my friend. Your stats dont lie. You are a pure BB player.

[wilkatis_LV]

Overpen on a superstructure would cause flooding?

 

Floodings do 0.66% of your hp as dmg per second, if you would set one, DD repairs it, and you set another one - potentially 35 to 55s of flooding (23.1% to 36.3% of hp dealt as dmg) + ship slowed down. A full penetration from a BB would deal something like 20...30% of the DDs hp, which both are less than that of the flooding, plus a pen doesn't have the slow effect. 

 

This would never work, in any shape or form it could take.

[nambr9]

Not to mention that people cry about DD torpedo spam.

Imagine BBs lobbing cca. 12 shells (flying sonic speed torps) every 25-30 secs  with the chance of flooding. 

 

This is one of the most sneaky BB buff requests I ever heard.

[Naesil]

You know that the suggestion is stupid when @wilkatis_LV defends DDs and is against BB AP doing something against said DDs

[Ysterpyp]

1 hour ago, nambr9 said:

Your stats dont lie. You are a pure BB player.

Just like Shakira's hips that don't lie , sorry i had to do it :P

[wilkatis_LV]

31 minutes ago, Naesil said:

You know that the suggestion is stupid when @wilkatis_LV defends DDs and is against BB AP doing something against said DDs

This one made me laugh

 

I'm just against stupid changes overall, no matter against whom they would be

[Oppressor_]

A full 10-12 x AP salvo (even when over penetrating) from a sniper GK is always fun to receive in any DD.

Working as intended.

[Asakka]

24 minutes ago, Exohoritis said:

A full 10-12 x AP salvo (even when over penetrating) from a sniper GK is always fun to receive in any DD.

Working as intended.

Actually it is. You want be invincible or something ? He had lucky salvo (10-12 hits on dd is insane)

 

I dont cry everytime i get citadelted in cruiser or bb at 18km+. Its just life man, sucks sometimes

[nambr9]

16 minutes ago, Asakka said:

Actually it is. You want be invincible or something ? He had lucky salvo (10-12 hits on dd is insane)

 

I dont cry everytime i get citadelted in cruiser or bb at 18km+. Its just life man, sucks sometimes

I agree here ... full salvo hit ... no problem, I can take that.

 

Its that one or two lucky BB shells that magically penetrates and takes half (or more) of my HP on DD.

 

[Asakka]

2 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Its that one or two lucky BB shells that magically penetrates and takes half of my HP on DD.

They gonna fix that i hope, because this double/triple pen with 1 shell is weird. I just hope they dont overkill it and make dds too tanky. 

 

I just dont want to see kamikaze DDs without the fear of dying and just charging BBs up close.

[nambr9]

4 minutes ago, Asakka said:

They gonna fix that i hope, because this double/triple pen with 1 shell is weird. I just hope they dont overkill it and make dds too tanky. 

 

I just dont want to see kamikaze DDs without the fear of dying and just charging BBs up close.

If a BB hits full salvo on DD and gets multiple (lets say 5-10) overpens it could still wipe out the DD.

But if unlucky or bad aim ... then Im sorry .. besides, BBs (most) have decent secondaries to repel DDs ... + team support.... if not ... then im sorry again.

 

BBs are currently too forgiving to play anyways.

[Asakka]

Just now, nambr9 said:

If a BB hits full salvo on DD and gets overpens it should still wipe out the DD.

But if unlucky or bad aim ... then Im sorry .. besides, BBs (most) have decent secondaries to repel DDs ... + team support.... if not ... then im sorry again.

 

BBs are currently too forgiving to play anyways.

Yeah i agree with that easily. Full salvo on DD could propably kill it with overpens anyway and if you miss then pray to rngjesus 

 

BBs are pretty ez if you know how to aim and have some map awareness.

[wilkatis_LV]

22 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

But if unlucky or bad aim ... then Im sorry .. besides, BBs (most) have decent secondaries to repel DDs ... + team support.... if not ... then im sorry again.

It has next to nothing to do with good aim, it has all to do with luck. The difference between DD being so close BBs (or is it all ships?) have the "accuracy penalty" and DDs being too far to reliably hit is so small you can just ignore it even existing.

Those secondaries are next to useless unless you invest bunch of modules and skills into them. Sure, you'll land a few hits, sure they'll do something. But it's so little that unless its a secondary spec'd high tier BB - the DD can ignore those secondaries for all they are worth. The accuracy is just too low for them to matter.

 

Checked on WoWS numbers - even with Ctrl clicking for the increased accuracy (the natural bonus not the captain skill - my only "secondary" BB is Bismark and I have barely any games in that) my secondaries have a hitrate of 13.26%. They literally do nothing

 

Team support is the thing that should be working there, but unless you are in a division... tough luck.

 

27 minutes ago, Asakka said:

Full salvo on DD could propably kill it with overpens anyway

Not sure if I remember correctly, but I think the average was something like 4...5 pens or 10...12 overpens to wipe a full hp DD

 

Those 4...5 pens would already be questionable to get on cruisers, not even talking about how specific those hits would be to get them on the DD.

 

And 10...12 overpens is more shells than most BBs can fire in a single salvo. And even those few who can... good luck getting 100% of your shells on that small, quick and maneuverable target when your accuracy is as bad as it is. Has someone done it? I'm sure that once in a blue moon someone gets lucky enough (like right after buying the all premium ship package for Christmas ) but once again - it's such an anomaly that statistically it carries absolutely no weight, especially when compared to those thousands upon thousands of salvos where the DD just gets his decks washed every single day

 

[Quetak]

16 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And 10...12 overpens is more shells than most BBs can fire in a single salvo. And even those few who can... good luck getting 100% of your shells on that small,

tell it to my Z52 yesterday....18k from Montana 15km away after I was spotted for second and immediately smoked+hydro to fight DD in cap. This ruined my whole game right from first minute just because I want to cap for team. I didnt check after game how much hits was it but it was nice BS. One click BBs wiping DDs...why we have cruiser which must shot DD for minutes to wipe it especialy on 15km range? Thats why competitive scene has hard cap for BBs.      

You have so much theory here on forums...but high tier DD(T8+) experience 0 (unless you have another account) so I always take it like when panic is talking about sex based on porn videos.   

[BeauNidl3]

3 minutes ago, Quetak said:

tell it to my Z52 yesterday....18k from Montana 15km away after I was spotted for second and immediately smoked+hydro to fight DD in cap. This ruined my whole game right from first minute just because I want to cap for team. I didnt check after game how much hits was it but it was nice BS. One click BBs wiping DDs...why we have cruiser which must shot DD for minutes to wipe it especialy on 15km range? Thats why competitive scene has hard cap for BBs.      

You have so much theory here on forums...but high tier DD(T8+) experience 0 (unless you have another account) so I always take it like when panic is talking about sex based on porn videos.   

 

That's such a familiar scenario to me it's not even slightly funny, frequently happens and frankly it's a pain in the nuts.

I've seriously considered going into selfish mode and avoiding capping just to farm damage for score and big numbers, it means I'm less likely to be deleted by an unspotted BB firing AP at my DD from 20km.

They have said they're working on the BB overpens doing a monumental percentage of DD HP, we shall see what happens.

[ForceM1782]

7 hours ago, eliastion said:

There's nothing historically/physically acurate in overpens causing flooding when you realize what "flooding" status represents in this game. It's not just a hole that causes water to leak inside, no. It's the kind of hole that SOMETIMES happens when a torpedo detonates on your hull. Think about it: you can eat several torpedoes (especially airdropped ones) and not suffer a flooding.

 

In WoWs a "flooding" represents a truly catastrophic leak, an underwater hole a couple meters wide. It's in a completely different dimension to whatever an AP overpenetration could conceivably cause.

I agree. And the most ridiculous thing is when you think about the Damage Control team instanly patching up a huge hole in the hull...

[wilkatis_LV]

23 minutes ago, Quetak said:

18k from Montana 15km away

Replay or admit you're bs-ing there

[Quetak]

24 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Replay or admit you're bs-ing there

you will need to wait until evening since im in work, but i have no problem with it, replay is available.

[eliastion]

5 hours ago, ForceM1782 said:

I agree. And the most ridiculous thing is when you think about the Damage Control team instanly patching up a huge hole in the hull...

Well, that's pretty much inevitable - imagine if we had actually realistic torpedoes:

 - limited (as in, no reloads, perhaps you would be able to send away your DD and call another one from outside the map...)

 - almost undetectable  (every torp a deep water torp with no way to detect them via Hydro unless you're sitting still to not deafen yourself with your own engines)

 - failing to explode (bouncing harmlessly) when hitting at a wrong angle (mechanical fuses were prone to that)

 - IF successfully landed: crippling the ship for the rest of the match if not killing target on the spot

 

Extreme frustration for everyone involved (both torp users and torp targets) guaranteed. Things like flooding being ridiculously easy to manage are part of the bigger design meant to make torps usable as a weapon in a computer game. Of course, some changes might be nice. Personally I'd like to see repair giving like *10 patching up speed rather than be a magic button - at the cost of actual damage flooding inflicts (so that flooding always does some damage but it running the full duration isn't as devastating as it is currently). But even then, that would just slightly reduce the "instantly" aspect - we'd still have damage control crew patching up perfectly what should realistically put any ship in a dry dock for a long time (if not on the bottom for good).

[wilkatis_LV]

11 hours ago, Quetak said:

you will need to wait until evening since im in work, but i have no problem with it, replay is available.

Oh I can wait. Will even set back updating my game a bit so you can give it to us. Just don't forget it