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T8 Cleveland AA Adjustment

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CLEVELAND AA POWERHOUSE

 

As it's confirmed that Cleveland will be moving to T8, I was wondering how its AA capabilities will be affected. The ship will be going against ex-Baltimore at tier 8 whose AA is whole other level. Cleveland is smaller in size, armament and displacement. She lacks couple of Bofors and about half of Oerlikons found on Baltimore but because she's smaller you can't really add more AA guns on her deck. You can't "well, actually can..." also manually set DPM to extreme levels because that wouldn't make much sense game wise, good example of that is Atago's AA that lacks any double or triple mounts and for its tier is nothing special.

 

Oerlikon AA guns

 

They create minority of Cleveland's AA, with only 47dps they're nothing special. They don't benefit from Def. AA but can do something if bombers get close enough. 4 of them are also placed on weird spots that most probably were used as mounts for 40mm double Bofors before moving Cleveland to T6 before closed beta.

 

In Game

 

Oerlikon.thumb.png.6c7860d61638feb53521427e0c0b303c.png

 

Cleveland 1943+

 

5a9476f5c1beb_Vincennes1945.thumb.jpg.24f42968ea2392fbf3102cca0293b093.jpg

 

These spots will most likely be again mounted with Bofors guns and that brings number of Oerlikons to 9 which is nothing really spectacular in terms of close AA defense. Cleveland pales in comparison to Baltimore's close range AA. They might be adjusted with some double mounts but that still wouldn't cut it.

 

40mm Bofors AA guns

 

Current top configuration of Cleveland adds 6 x 2 40mm Bofors to your arsenal. They manage to pop out 68dps which is nothing really amazing but this can be boosted to 204dps for limited amount of time by Def. AA. They definitely come in handy. Problem is that they're only double mounts while Cleveland actually hosted 4 x 4, 6 x 2 40mm Bofors during war. They were present before closed Beta, then removed after moving Cleveland to T6, shame.

 

 

Clemson_class__schematic_full.thumb.jpg.5a406a36ed1eb4e6634af13484214edd.jpg

 

 

127 mm/38 Mk 32 AA guns

 

These guns are main AA power on Cleveland, they pop out 91dps that can be again temporarily boosted to 273dps with help of Def. AA. They can be also utilized as secondary batteries, they won't scare away destroyers or cruisers but they can be helpful with low HP targets as their caliber is big enough to reasonably pen cruisers and destroyers commonly found in T6 Matchmaking. Cleveland has the same amount of these batteries as Baltimore so she's even in this factor, they pop out same damage and have same range. Really usable and buffing these guns with captain skills is recommended.


Conclusion

 

Even if moved to T8, retrofitted to suit T8 Matchmaking, Cleveland will be still lagging behind Baltimore due to lower number of AA guns in total. She loses half of her AA power in close AA range, and about 1/3 of her mid range AA if she'll end up retrofitted. Long range is same, which is good and I can give her thumb of approval for this. What might change this factor would be giving her US Destroyer style Def. AA with 4x damage output. But I feel that would be a bit too much and honestly CV players already have hard life in this game, especially if bottom tier in match.

 

  • link for quick comparison of Cleveland and Baltimore HERE

                        please keep in mind that dps numbers might differ

 

Tell me your opinion, do you think she needs buff in AA power? Would you leave her AA as it is and just buff her other specs?

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21 minutes ago, AdamFandel said:

They were present in closed Beta and again removed after moving Cleveland to T6

 

What are you even talking about? Cleveland has always been T6.

 

Just giving Cleve a late war loadout should address any concerns regarding AA.

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

What are you even talking about? Cleveland has always been T6.

 

Just giving Cleve a late war loadout should address any concerns regarding AA.

Cleveland was supposed to be T8 but because of Wargaming's gun caliber progression rule she was moved to T6. It would be weird to go from Omaha's 152mm to Pensacola's and New Orleans 203mm and then move back to 152mm on Cleveland.

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3 minutes ago, AdamFandel said:

Cleveland was supposed to be T8 but because of Wargaming's gun caliber progression rule she was moved to T6.

 

Yes, but this was before CBT. Cleve has never been a T8 ship.

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Semi off topic but i wanna ask for; Her arc is will stay same or gonna get rework? Any ideas about it?

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yes, but this was before CBT. Cleve has never been a T8 ship.

My bad, made a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. Gonna rewrite it. I'm moving from friend's informations as I wasn't lucky enough to be in closed beta :cap_old:

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14 minutes ago, Accelerated said:

Semi off topic but i wanna ask for; Her arc is will stay same or gonna get rework? Any ideas about it?

She might get some range, there's always space for that as for the shell velocity. They kept it historical and velocity matches the RL one. One think that might help is adjusting shell drag, that would make shells fly lower and keep their kinetic energy. But all is up to devs, STs and CCs at this point. :cap_haloween:

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23 minutes ago, Accelerated said:

Semi off topic but i wanna ask for; Her arc is will stay same or gonna get rework? Any ideas about it?

Unclear atm. Personally I hope they stay. They are sort of signature of the ship, and I personally love lobbing shells over islands. Suprisingly with good results.

 

I will be very disappointed if they mess up the Cleveland.

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38 minutes ago, Accelerated said:

Semi off topic but i wanna ask for; Her arc is will stay same or gonna get rework? Any ideas about it?

 

This seems to be one of the areas where WG tries to stay true to reality so on the face of it they aren't that likely to change it.  That said I don't see how the 152/47 guns are going to work at T8.

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2 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

This seems to be one of the areas where WG tries to stay true to reality so on the face of it they aren't that likely to change it.  That said I don't see how the 152/47 guns are going to work at T8.

 

Probably some "special shells".

 

For the AA: Any objections against a "real" long range AA setup? 7km or 8km before captain skills?

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4 hours ago, Mandalorianer said:

For the AA: Any objections against a "real" long range AA setup? 7km or 8km before captain skills?

 

CV captains might object :) 

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No fly zones covering half the map vs. T6 CVs with minimal replacment planes ....

 

Im fine with it but in return midway gets shima torps (F3s) on her TBs .... that would be just as fair....

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Vor 10 Stunden, Capra76 sagte:

This seems to be one of the areas where WG tries to stay true to reality so on the face of it they aren't that likely to change it.  That said I don't see how the 152/47 guns are going to work at T8.

In the old days, with AFT on the main guns, you could still burn BBs at 17 km. It will be fine with more range (around 16 km) and IFHE.

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Not every ship needs to instadelete aircraft at tier 7+.

 

There are few enough Carrier players, so no need to further disgust them.

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12 hours ago, nambr9 said:

I will be very disappointed if they mess up the Cleveland.

I agree, she will need a few buffs, Range, Armour, she can handle T7 planes with ease, but T8+ would be a struggle, so tiny increase in AA.

My 2nd best ever game was in the Cleveland in a T8 game, 41 x T7 Hiryu planes killed, 3 solo caps, and 3620 baseXP.

Will be sorry to see her being changed, but please WG, leave the shell arcs.

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2 hours ago, Wings_of_RNGesus said:

No fly zones covering half the map vs. T6 CVs with minimal replacment planes ....

 

Im fine with it but in return midway gets shima torps (F3s) on her TBs .... that would be just as fair....

 

Well, I did not say anything about boosting the AA damage and to be honest, there is no real difference between a really long range Tier VI AA v.s. "standard" Tier VIII AA. I know, Cleveland has very stronk AA for Tier VI, I own one myself.

Not that Tier VI Carrier hadn't to deal with her since release or something.

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Yeah t6 CV having to deal with clevelands and atlantas is retarted.

Nothing i cant work around 99% of the time - but absolutly deadly for a "new player".

 

Its like facing a desmo radar in a t6 DD .... some level of power you should not see at your tier but 2 tiers above.

Oh and it is as absurd as a T5 BB seeing my Kaga .... 

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The 6"/47 should get flattet arcs on her HE, historically speaking, as the HE had 823m/s MV. That should make it similar to French 6" HE. AP prolly should remain arcing, as those were heavy shells. 

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14 hours ago, Accelerated said:

Semi off topic but i wanna ask for; Her arc is will stay same or gonna get rework? Any ideas about it?

The HE shell should get it, but AP should stay the same. If you need a reference point as to what they will look like, just use Minotaur or Neptune. The shell is almost identical in terms of weight-muzzle velocity.

 

Oh yeah historical late war Cleveland AA would look like this:

6x2 127mm, 90.6dps@5km
4x4 40mm, 63.6dps@3.5km
6x2 40mm, 67.8dps@3.5km
10 20mm, 36dps@2km
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