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RedAnark

Please delete Estuary Map for Tier V and above! Txs!

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It's a ridiculous small map, good only for destroyers fun. I find myself in that map with a Bismark, more than once... no comment.

 

It's not warfare, is toyware.

 

Void that Map for Tiers V to X thanks!

 

 

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Please don't.

 

It's a wonderfull map, because you're forced to get up close and personal.

 

Don't void it. Thanks

 

 

Greetings

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It's a fun map and very easy to kite on. I got 108k in a Kutuzov a couple days ago. It actually suit's a 12 km gun range brawling BB. Not that you seem to know what one of those is. 

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I wish estuary would be available for tier 10. Running havoc between the islands with a Des Moines or Hindenburg sounds like tons of fun. I much prefer this map over protracted campfests like Atlantic and Arctic or badly made brawling maps like shatter.

 

Edit: and I find that with few exceptions, this is a terrible map for a destroyer. Far too many ambush spots for cruisers and too small to farm damage consistently with torpedoes or destroyer guns thanks to how much cover there is. The entire map is basically split into four small arenas that a destroyer has to, predictably, go sailing through to get any damage done and hope they don't sail in front of the guns of a high tiered cruiser. The only destroyers that I find able to perform well on Estuary are destroyer hunters like the Akizuki or the Z-46.

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It is a bit small for high tiers, but a pretty nicely designed map, so I very much like playing it. Just make it larger and tweak the spacing.

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one of the better maps in the game. could do with being a bit smaller around the margins, actually - there's too much open ocean at the back of both spawns that BBabies can camp in...

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1 hour ago, That_Other_Nid said:

It's a fun map and very easy to kite on. I got 108k in a Kutuzov a couple days ago. It actually suit's a 12 km gun range brawling BB. Not that you seem to know what one of those is. 

Strangely enough, this is the thought I had.

 

He's complaining about being forced to engage a close range in a Bismarck? :cap_fainting:

 

I suppose you'd rather be laying down fire from 19km, OP?

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56 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

It is a bit small for high tiers, but a pretty nicely designed map, so I very much like playing it. Just make it larger and tweak the spacing.

No.

It is very good as is.

If you make him larger t6 ships will suffer.

to the OP

 

I wouldn't mind it if it was small for my Bismark (I don't have it yet).

 

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1 hour ago, RedAnark said:

It's a ridiculous small map, good only for destroyers fun. I find myself in that map with a Bismark, more than once... no comment.

 

It's not warfare, is toyware.

 

Void that Map for Tiers V to X thanks!

 

 

:Smile_facepalm::Smile_facepalm::Smile_facepalm:           

 

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In my experience, it is one of the more dynamic maps and that's great.

1 hour ago, RedAnark said:

It's a ridiculous small map, good only for destroyers fun. I find myself in that map with a Bismark, more than once... no comment.

 

It's not warfare, is toyware absolutely awesome.

FTFY

 

I mean, do you even Bismarck? I wish my Bismarck would end up there more often than on goddamn Okinawa. Then again, when you start a Bismarck game in Estuary, you are top tier. Which just adds to the fun when you wreck those poor Bayerns.

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20 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

No.

It is very good as is.

If you make him larger t6 ships will suffer.

to the OP

 

I wouldn't mind it if it was small for my Bismark (I don't have it yet).

 

 

I should rephrase that:

 

Perhaps WG could split the map into two tier brackets, the current map stays up to tier VII and another version of the same map tweaked to be bigger could be made available for tier VIII-X.

 

In fact that's an approach WG might consider for other maps aswell, Trident comes to mind as another very enjoyable map that I'd like to see more often (though in this case the devs probably would also have to place some more strategic islands or tweak their heights in addition to scaling the mapsize).

 

 

4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Then again, when you start a Bismarck game in Estuary, you are top tier.

Not sure if I just remember that incorrectly for some weird reason or if that was changed since, but I could swear I had a couple games on Estuary with tier IX ships in the teams ... afaik Estuary is a map up-to-including tier IX games.

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3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Not sure if I just remember that incorrectly for some weird reason or if that was changed since, but I could swear I had a couple games on Estuary with tier IX ships in the teams ...

Can't recall ever meeting T9 ships there. I sadly can hardly even recall Bismarck games there, because I don't get this map often.

4 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

I should rephrase that:

 

Perhaps WG could split the map into two tier brackets, the current map stays at tier V-VII and another version of the same map tweaked to be bigger could be made available for tier VIII-X.

 

In fact that's an approach WG might consider for other maps aswell, Trident comes to mind as another very enjoyable map that I'd like to see more often (though in this case the devs probably would also have to place some more strategic islands or tweak their heights in addition to scaling the mapsize).

It's 2 am, don't expect a fountain of wisdom, but I do wonder what would happen if you'd adjust Big Race in size and gave it T8-10 MM.

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I kinda find all maps to be too large as it is. Particularly maps with large islands (like also Two Brothers). It can take an eternity to get anywhere on those.

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7 minutes ago, Toivia said:

I kinda find all maps to be too large as it is. Particularly maps with large islands (like also Two Brothers). It can take an eternity to get anywhere on those.

I don't think so. It makes it so speed actually matters, as do choices on positioning. It's one of those things why a Kongo or even Myogi feels a bit meh on Big Race, because your speed matters not too much, a 21 knot BB still can cover large tracts of the map. And there is no domination mode that would require moving between flanks much. If you however look at Two Brothers, the size of the map makes it so that picking a flank matters and it matters whether your ship is a 32 knot Gneisenau or a 21 knot Colorado. Or a 35 knot Aoba or some 30 knot Graf Spee.

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Nothing wrong with that map, it's short (top to bottom), but wide and has a variety of cover. It would play well with higher tier ships, far better than some of the high tier maps in fact.

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I like the map is one of the better ones. Keep it.

 

Fault Line on the other hand really grinds my gears. Especially in a slow BB. By the time I reach any meaningful position, half of the team is already dead.

I also get this map way to often.

 

 

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7 hours ago, RedAnark said:

It's a ridiculous small map, good only for destroyers fun. I find myself in that map with a Bismark, more than once... no comment.

 

It's not warfare, is toyware.

 

Void that Map for Tiers V to X thanks!

 

 

Its a perfect map for Bismarck / Tirpitz rush. Overall one of the best maps in the game. Any tier.

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Not to be 'that guy' and bring up stats, but OP you need to blame everything except map design. 

 

Try to improve your game and you will understand that Estuary is one of the best maps actually. Things you could do to learn:

 

1. Watching the captain academy video's from iChase on youtube, you still  lack basic understanding of the game after 2.3k battles.

2. Only after you have the basics covered, start watching Flamu / Flambass video's / streams on Twitch. See how they play and try to copy and learn.

3. Marry the minimap. Increase it's size to the max, enable last seen positions and ship namens on minimap if you haven't already.

4. Practice. Practice. Practice.

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11 hours ago, Riselotte said:

I don't think so. It makes it so speed actually matters, as do choices on positioning. It's one of those things why a Kongo or even Myogi feels a bit meh on Big Race, because your speed matters not too much, a 21 knot BB still can cover large tracts of the map. And there is no domination mode that would require moving between flanks much. If you however look at Two Brothers, the size of the map makes it so that picking a flank matters and it matters whether your ship is a 32 knot Gneisenau or a 21 knot Colorado. Or a 35 knot Aoba or some 30 knot Graf Spee.

Well picking a flank does matter indeed on "Two Brothers". Either you're lucky and face a similarly sized enemy fleet or you're unlucky in either of two ways: 1) ovewhelming enemy force; 2) insignificant or no enemy force. I don't like it when luck and RNG dictate pretty much everything that happens. And speaking of having/not having to move to flanks, see below ->

11 hours ago, ZoidFile said:

I like the map is one of the better ones. Keep it.

 

Fault Line on the other hand really grinds my gears. Especially in a slow BB. By the time I reach any meaningful position, half of the team is already dead.

I also get this map way to often.

 

 

All battles I've recently had on Fault Line were decided by the last couple ships capping/decapping all over the freaking map, without spotting each other. Yeah, I'm starting to hate the map as well. Going to either one of the flanks (A or C cap) similarly limits your options and relies on luck as the already discussed Two Brothers. So I don't really want to commit and just can't decide what to bloody do on the map.

 

Overall, on these types of maps, you can be on your flank and do bloody well, but if the other flank just disintegrates, you're still frakked and lose. Lots of fun.:Smile_facepalm:

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I needed to enlist help for a reality check, here is the result:

 

 

TikezLO.png

 

 

Are you for real?

 

....... weekend truly HAS started! Treading the forum already gives me shivers and drives me away from even opening the client since its also 200 % WE! :fish_nerv:

 

 

btw: 12 % hr in Fuso ............. I seriously wonder why. Must be too small maps alright.  I guess when you approach "historical BB" hit-ratios, the maps will be finally big enough ..........:fish_viking::fish_palm:

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8 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Well picking a flank does matter indeed on "Two Brothers". Either you're lucky and face a similarly sized enemy fleet or you're unlucky in either of two ways: 1) ovewhelming enemy force; 2) insignificant or no enemy force. I don't like it when luck and RNG dictate pretty much everything that happens. And speaking of having/not having to move to flanks, see below ->

All battles I've recently had on Fault Line were decided by the last couple ships capping/decapping all over the freaking map, without spotting each other. Yeah, I'm starting to hate the map as well. Going to either one of the flanks (A or C cap) similarly limits your options and relies on luck as the already discussed Two Brothers. So I don't really want to commit and just can't decide what to bloody do on the map.

 

Overall, on these types of maps, you can be on your flank and do bloody well, but if the other flank just disintegrates, you're still frakked and lose. Lots of fun.:Smile_facepalm:

Honestly, unlike DDs and cruisers eating pens and citadels from stray BB AP rounds, this is the kind of randomness I would tolerate. Because apart from making single corridor maps or every game on ocean, you cannot force people to distribute equally along flanks. Even if they spawn that way, if the lemmings do the lemming thing, WG cannot patch them a better brain.

 

And stuff like Two Brothers even has just two viable corridors (disregarding the middle meme), so it's the simplest you can get in tactical choices.If both teams deploy similar forces to both sides, then you basically have a balanced setup, but if not, then it isn't WGs fault and frankly, you just need to adapt your tactics. If you run into a vastly inferior force, push on. If Two Brothers is a standard battle, you threaten the enemy cap and rear. They will react or lose. If it is Domination, you can cap the enemy cap and just try play ring around the rosie, hoping to cap faster than the enemy can. But you need to push and be effective. If you run into a force that is straight up superior, turn the ship and kite. Then it is up to you to try fight a delaying action while the other flank hopefully kills the little to nonexistent enemy forces there for your envelopment. And typically, you can guess when it is time to turn and gtfo, given it's when that PT counter goes up and all those ships open fire on something. DD obviously will outspot opposition, cruisers often outspot too, BBs can tank a couple salvos.

 

The one case where you truely are screwed is when you take some ship like a Schchors or so on a flank and have no DD or stealthy cruiser to spot for you, but such ships should not be frontline and you frankly are better off pointing out the lemming and running with your allies, than try fight on your own. That is the case for most cruisers, just that the Shchors is likely the one ship in that map that is the worst in this regard.

 

Any DD class with workable torpedoes meanwhile will do fine, PA likely doing best, IJN and KM doing good too, because they just love clusters of BBs and cruisers pushing them.

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15 hours ago, RedAnark said:

It's a ridiculous small map, good only for destroyers fun. I find myself in that map with a Bismark, more than once... no comment.

 

It's not warfare, is toyware.

 

Void that Map for Tiers V to X thanks!

 

 

Troll or what? Map too small for his Bismarck - in which 'brawler' he has 2 games total with 12k average dmg and 12% hit ratio :cap_fainting:

 

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Honestly, unlike DDs and cruisers eating pens and citadels from stray BB AP rounds, this is the kind of randomness I would tolerate. Because apart from making single corridor maps or every game on ocean, you cannot force people to distribute equally along flanks. Even if they spawn that way, if the lemmings do the lemming thing, WG cannot patch them a better brain.

 

And stuff like Two Brothers even has just two viable corridors (disregarding the middle meme), so it's the simplest you can get in tactical choices.

 

I don't think the complaint was one of too many tactical choices, it's that in Two Brothers the two halves of the map are too physically separated from one another and it's far too cumbersome a map to relocate across if it becomes obvious you'd be better placed on the other flank instead. Having excessive terrain largely blocking off parts of the map from one another is bad design in my book and Estuary, since it's the subject of the thread, is an example of a better designed map in that regard.

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Agreed, in Estuary you can reposition. And it offers nice and juicy angles on unsuspecting prey between many islands.

 

@Riselotte Well you described the options I simply called lucky and unlucky. Still the pushing through (while having nothing to shoot at) and kiting options are incredibly boring. And ending a standard battle by capping out is just so lame. Nobody gets any decent xp, most ships usually stay alive, so little damage dealt.

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