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Hurricane_tb

About the Conqueror

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First of all, I'd like to pin down that I much appreciate all the effort that you, the developers put into the game, I quite enjoy the game generally and had some fun moments. Thank you!

 

But there is one particular decision that I'm scratching my head about. The way how the British T10 BB, the Conqueror was implemented.

 

Let's put aside for now that even after the two small nerfs it's still broken and OP, my - and other people's - main issue is what type of gameplay it promotes.

 

- HE spamming: high alpha, high fire chance, high pen. Why would you use AP when you can just do 10 k damage and 2-3 fires with a single volley on an angled battleship? That ship's captain have to extinguish it, so now you can have 2-3 permanent fires in ~26 sec (assuming using reload module), while doing again 9-10 k damage [not to mention deleting all the AA modules] on someone who is doing what he supposed to do, not making a single mistake, yet gets punished heavily.

 

- underwater citadel: Why even try to angle, why even try to put the smallest amount of effort into playing somewhat tactically and skillfully, when you can just sail showing full broadside, because it's nigh impossible to citadel and punish you? 

 

- superheal: healing back half of your health from one single consumable is more encouragement to a dumb playstyle without any tactics or foresight needed, furthermore eliminates the chance from the opponents to make you pay if you misplayed

 

- amazing stealth: 11.8 km, better than literally half the T10 cruisers. You can sneak up to any other battleship or even some cruisers, and/or disengage anytime you wish.

 

- good range: having insane concealment, excellent survivability would assume a brawling approach, but why would you do that, when you have 24 km range without module? You can just sit at 20 km range and spam HE and get excellent results without any effort, skill or planning involved

 

Yes, it has ~14 k less health and 32 mm plating across the ship, but is it enough to compensate all the strengths that the ship has to offer?

 

Again, my main complaint is not that the ship is OP. Let it be OP, but then shall it require skill. Most ships have clear disadvantages even if they are very strong. What's the weakness of the Conqueror?

 

Good example, British T10 cruiser Minotaur: it's a DPM monster, and if played well incredibly effective and strong. But it has a clear weak spot, the armor. If misplayed or caught off-guard, the ship can disappear in no time, hence constantly requiring planning and careful approach from the captain. 

 

Don't we have enough HE spammers? Especially at long range... Don't we have enough uncitadellable ships? That's what the future holds? That kind of dumb, forgivable playstyle that requires no skill, no planning, no tactics, no foresight? (And here I could link and start an argument about the deep-water torps, but that's enough for now)

 

I hope that's not the case. 

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5 minutes ago, Hurricane_tb said:

Why would you use AP when you can just do 10 k damage and 2-3 fires with a single volley on an angled battleship?

why, because when the yamato thinks you're only spamming HE and gives you broadside your AP can easily do 60k in one salvo...

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1 hour ago, Hurricane_tb said:

 

Don't we have enough HE spammers? Especially at long range... Don't we have enough uncitadellable ships?

side comment: at long range Conq has pitiful accuracy (so is annoying, but not deadly), and at long range is actually quite possible to be citadelled :cap_popcorn:

 

Generally, from looking at your stats: GRIND YOUSELF THE TOY, and then whine ;)

Why did you stop at Liz, if it is so easy? Don't tell me you don't like HE spam, if you played hundreds of games in Moines, Hindenburg or Cleve.

Your only T9-T10 BB (which are primary victims for the Conq) are Iowa and Montana. You don't have much comparison then. 

 

If you really so much suffer from Conq in your Monty - sorry, sacrifice part of that AA of yours, and get the fireproof build, that might help :cap_cool:

 

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2 hours ago, Hurricane_tb said:

Why would you use AP when you can just do 10 k damage and 2-3 fires with a single volley on an angled battleship?

Probably bcuz you can get 40k with 0 citadels in a single salvo on a poorly angled BB.

 

And just bcuz you "can" doesn't mean you will

 

2 hours ago, Hurricane_tb said:

underwater citadel

Can be hit even by tier 8 BBs if you stop aiming under the front guns and go for the shot under the superstructure

 

2 hours ago, Hurricane_tb said:

superheal

Balances out the absolute lack of armour and lower hp pool

 

2 hours ago, Hurricane_tb said:

amazing stealth: 11.8 km

Identical to what NC has. In fact, NC has it better as she doesn't have nearly as terrible air detectability

 

And those few m difference when compared to cruisers... really doesn't make much difference. I'm yet to see a case where it actually played a major role

 

2 hours ago, Hurricane_tb said:

good range

Coupled with very poor accuracy at long range. The only t10 BB that won't outperform Conq at long ranges is GK

 


 

Anyhow, there have been plenty of Conq threads already, everything's discussed more than enough times

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12 minutos antes, wilkatis_LV dijo:

Probably bcuz you can get 40k with 0 citadels in a single salvo on a poorly angled BB.

 

And just bcuz you "can" doesn't mean you will

Even then that HE (and for instance, all RN BB HE) has to be nerfed. Now it's just plain stupid

 

13 minutos antes, wilkatis_LV dijo:

Can be hit even by tier 8 BBs if you stop aiming under the front guns and go for the shot under the superstructure

Yeah... good joke. You need enormous amounts of RNG for being able to citadel a Mongueror...

 

Spoiler

Maybe the same amount that I had today when I citadeled an angled Izumo with my Des Moines :cap_book:

Spoiler

Proof for sceptics :fish_haloween:

 unknown.png?width=838&height=474

 

 

17 minutos antes, wilkatis_LV dijo:

Balances out the absolute lack of armour and lower hp pool

Not completly balanced, still is completly retarded as the rest of the ship

 

18 minutos antes, wilkatis_LV dijo:

Identical to what NC has. In fact, NC has it better as she doesn't have nearly as terrible air detectability

 

And those few m difference when compared to cruisers... really doesn't make much difference. I'm yet to see a case where it actually played a major role

No BB should be able to outspot cruisers and, right now, she outspots Hindenburg, Henri IV and Moskva. The comparison with the NC is just stupid, being that ship smaller, with worst protection and two tiers lower 

 

20 minutos antes, wilkatis_LV dijo:

Coupled with very poor accuracy at long range. The only t10 BB that won't outperform Conq at long ranges is GK

While range alone itself is not a problem, when combined with an ammo choice that doesn't lose penetration power over great distances, that also deals massive damage and causes multitude of fires, then we have a severe problem

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31 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Coupled with very poor accuracy at long range. The only t10 BB that won't outperform Conq at long ranges is GK

 

Range is still a legitimate point, though. It's not like Conqueror needs it. All it does is encouraging the horde of braindead BB players to camp even further back.

(Although it's hardly something that's only an issue with the Conqueror. The same can be said about almost any high tier BB.)

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Here we go again. Another thread about complain on Conqueror :Smile_popcorn:

 

Why I never cry for ships like Zao, Yamato, Minotaur. Oh wait, I dont wanna waste tears in game so I adopt.

 

Those 40k salvos mentioned here are great jokes. I never got nor saw more then 20k.

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31 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

Even then that HE (and for instance, all RN BB HE) has to be nerfed. Now it's just plain stupid

 

Yeah... good joke. You need enormous amounts of RNG for being able to citadel a Mongueror...

 

If WG could please to everyone and wipe their tears, it would require a lot of time to nerf every single ship on T10. Because one way or another, every ship is OP for some players.

 

Not really. As the result of damage, black ribbons or xy number of damage, doesnt matter. High damage is high damage and Conqueror can get hit for 30-40k in 1 salvo easy.

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2 hours ago, Hurricane_tb said:

But there is one particular decision that I'm scratching my head about

:fish_sleep: Conqueror post #589, there has been less episodes of Coronation Street then there has of "The OP Conqueror"

Provide WG and the Forum with feedback, replay, video and your experience as a Conqueror player, and how easy it is to win or carry every T10 game and never suffer much playing the ship because of all it's GOD powers.

 

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2 minutos antes, Hades_warrior dijo:

If WG could please to everyone and wipe their tears, it would require a lot of time to nerf every single ship on T10. Because one way or another, every ship is OP for some players.

No other tier 10 ship is less rewarding or fun to play against than Conqueror. Even if you do your best to mitigate damage, Mongueror will blap you because "muh HE doesn't care about angling"

 

4 minutos antes, Hades_warrior dijo:

Not really. As the result of damage, black ribbons or xy number of damage, doesnt matter. High damage is high damage and Conqueror can get hit for 30-40k in 1 salvo for sure.

Still almost imposible to citadel, and any other tier 10 BB can take also those chunks of damage, with two of them being able to receive citadel hits easily (Montana and Yamato)

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22 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

High damage is high damage and Conqueror can get hit for 30-40k in 1 salvo easy.

There's a difference between citadel and non-citadel hits regarding Repair Party.

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54 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

The comparison with the NC is just stupid, being that ship smaller, with worst protection and two tiers lower 

Actually, while NC has 100mm thinner main belt, overall she has more armour - turrets, conning tower, deck... Plus the smaller target, lower profile and quite a bit less superstructure. Overall height is approximately the same tho.

 

Also since she is 2 tiers lower - she not only meets all the same cruisers that Conq meets (those same 4 outspottable ones + the tier 6 and 7 ones who can't get concealment module)

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40 minutes ago, iJoby said:

:fish_sleep: Conqueror post #589, there has been less episodes of Coronation Street then there has of "The OP Conqueror"

 

I just want to be here for post #1 of buff the Conqueror.

 

The fireworks will be amazing!

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9 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

The fireworks will be amazing!

Jack Dunkirk will get "First Blood" and "Second Wind" talent??

Spoiler

:Smile_trollface:

 

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32 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

I just want to be here for post #1 of buff the Conqueror.

 

The fireworks will be amazing!

This cheered my night up.

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1 hour ago, Hades_warrior said:

hy I never cry for ships like Zao, Yamato, Minotaur.

Because those ships are actually quite balanced?

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1 hour ago, iJoby said:

:fish_sleep: Conqueror post #589, there has been less episodes of Coronation Street then there has of "The OP Conqueror"

Provide WG and the Forum with feedback, replay, video and your experience as a Conqueror player, and how easy it is to win or carry every T10 game and never suffer much playing the ship because of all it's GOD powers.

 

 

"I free xp'd the entire branch to get the Conqueror" starter pack answer.

 

Considering your only other T8+ BB experiences consists in some rather poor results on average, I would be really careful about pulling on that particular thread, if I were you.

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4 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

"I free xp'd the entire branch to get the Conqueror" starter pack answer.

I spent some free xp on my Conqueror too, but I still think it's a poorly designed ship.

I use to play it to relax a bit, because it's so easy to play and I can put my brain almost into standby.

Can't play thrilling Minotaur all the time... :Smile_teethhappy:

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Justo ahora, SeeteufeI dijo:

I spent some free xp on my Conqueror too, but I still think it's a poorly designed ship.

I use to play it to relax a bit, because it's so easy to play and I can put my brain almost into standby.

He he, I also used free xp for the last 100k on Lion, plus the 457 guns :cap_haloween:, just because I wanted to play something different. I find the ship to be ok-ish (with both gun setups) playing mildly aggresive with AP as primary ammo, but is just kinda depressing to think how you can make the ship overperform just by sitting in the back and spaming HE

 

Pretty lazy design which promotes one of the most disgusting playstyles, which very often can hard-counter skill play (angling, finding Mongueror's broadside and unload AP) 

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Just now, SeeteufeI said:

I spent some free xp on my Conqueror too, but I still think it's a poorly designed ship.

I use to play it to relax a bit, because it's so easy to play and I can put my brain almost into standby.

Can't play thrilling Minotaur all the time... :Smile_teethhappy:

I think it's a poor design too, I would have much preferred a sensible RN BB line, and hopefully WG will pull the line and re-modify it, but daily whines about it is kind of MEH! forking boring.

17 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

Considering your only other T8+ BB experiences consists in some rather poor results on average, I would be really careful about pulling on that particular thread, if I were you.

I never pretend to be a good player or have good stats. whats your point? and TBH anything T8+ is out of my comfort zone, as it i with you.

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2 minutes ago, iJoby said:

 

I never pretend to be a good player or have good stats. whats your point? and TBH anything T8+ is out of my comfort zone, as it i with you.

 

I just find someone saying  : "Go gather facts that the Conqueror is too good!" in a decidedly dismissive and mocking tone, when his own experiences reveal exactly that to be as funny as it is eyeroll-inducing.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Salentine said:

why, because when the yamato thinks you're only spamming HE and gives you broadside your AP can easily do 60k in one salvo...

 

You're right ofc. But tell me that a good player would do that. With the Conqueror you can burn/damage angled Yamato heavily with ease, and disengage anytime you wish. Is that requires any particular skill or misplay from the opponent? No. Post is not about that Conqueror is strong, it's about it promotes braindead and easy playstyle.

 

2 hours ago, EdiJo said:

side comment: at long range Conq has pitiful accuracy (so is annoying, but not deadly), and at long range is actually quite possible to be citadelled :cap_popcorn:

 

Generally, from looking at your stats: GRIND YOUSELF THE TOY, and then whine ;)

Why did you stop at Liz, if it is so easy? Don't tell me you don't like HE spam, if you played hundreds of games in Moines, Hindenburg or Cleve.

Your only T9-T10 BB (which are primary victims for the Conq) are Iowa and Montana. You don't have much comparison then. 

 

If you really so much suffer from Conq in your Monty - sorry, sacrifice part of that AA of yours, and get the fireproof build, that might help :cap_cool:

 

You're right, can't argue with that :D

 

Just because I'm having a different opinion than you, doesn't mean I'm whining. I'm just merely dare to wonder what was the reasoning behind adding this ship in its current form.

I guess that didn't occur to you that I might have tried the ship on test server, and I'm not interested in grinding the Brit BB line, easy or not easy, that's not the point. 

Ofc I like HE spamming, it's an important aspect of the game. Yes, but those are all cruisers. They can't heal back half of their health nor survive a lot of pens.

Playing against a ship can tell you a lot if you see things objectively. Again, the ship being OP is not the message of the post.

(I'm already using that build considering how many carriers are around usually :) )

 

1 hour ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Conqueror threads generally deteriorate fast.

Hehe, no doubt. I felt it important adding that, because I'm not questioning the devs decision, I'm sure they have their reason and I support everything they do that adds more content to the game / improves the game. And I'm truly grateful for it.

 

I'm just merely trying to raise a concern about a dull and uninteresting gamestyle.

1 hour ago, Hades_warrior said:

Here we go again. Another thread about complain on Conqueror :Smile_popcorn:

 

Why I never cry for ships like Zao, Yamato, Minotaur. Oh wait, I dont wanna waste tears in game so I adopt.

 

Those 40k salvos mentioned here are great jokes. I never got nor saw more then 20k.

Well, sorry, but you don't have to read it. Months passed without any significant adjustment to the ship, and again, the point of the post is a concern about downgrading the level of skill needed for the game and promoting a braindead and dumb playstyle.

 

Because they all have weaknesses. They are excellent ships but any fault or misplay from the player can result in huge consequences thus encouraging a clever and foreseeing approach from the player, rewarding good thinking and skill, exactly how a game supposed to do.

 

I've seen Conqueror devastating strikes and good hits.

1 hour ago, Hades_warrior said:

If WG could please to everyone and wipe their tears, it would require a lot of time to nerf every single ship on T10. Because one way or another, every ship is OP for some players.

 

Not really. As the result of damage, black ribbons or xy number of damage, doesnt matter. High damage is high damage and Conqueror can get hit for 30-40k in 1 salvo easy.

Again, point is not that the ship is OP, let it be OP, but then it should require skill from the player, and not encouraging a dumb playstyle that is unfun for everyone except for maybe the conqueror player (obviously respect for the good players who can do monster games in the ship, I'm talking about a general rule here).

 

The ship's lack of a weakness, and raising concern about downgrading the thinking and tactics needed, thus encouraging an uninteresting and unrewarding nature to the game in the future tried to be the essence of the post. 

1 hour ago, iJoby said:

:fish_sleep: Conqueror post #589, there has been less episodes of Coronation Street then there has of "The OP Conqueror"

Provide WG and the Forum with feedback, replay, video and your experience as a Conqueror player, and how easy it is to win or carry every T10 game and never suffer much playing the ship because of all it's GOD powers.

 

I apologize if this was discussed before, but the - hopefully non-existent - emerging pattern of additions to the game which forgives bad play and not rewarding good play from the player is what I tried to speak about here.

 

With all due respect, the fact that the ship has the highest winrate, damage, k/d is a good indication that the ship is good. Which, again, is not a problem. It can and should be a good ship, just not braindead.

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2 hours ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

No other tier 10 ship is less rewarding or fun to play against than Conqueror. Even if you do your best to mitigate damage, Mongueror will blap you because "muh HE doesn't care about angling"

 

Still almost imposible to citadel, and any other tier 10 BB can take also those chunks of damage, with two of them being able to receive citadel hits easily (Montana and Yamato)

Really? How I dont have ANY problems against him in MM's? Oh wait. A) I rarely see that ship on enemy team, and B) I dont rush into him, because last time I check my eye sight, there is other 11 ships on enemy team I can hunt and hurt.

When I play Iowa, Lion or any other ship that can get T10 MM, I never have issues with Conqueror.

 

Like I said, black ribbons doesnt matter. Conqueror eat a lot more damage then any other T10 BB. If you are not careful your HP get get to 0 in no time.

 

2 hours ago, SeeteufeI said:

There's a difference between citadel and non-citadel hits regarding Repair Party.

I got news for you. Any high damage you recieve is non-healable. That incudes and heavy hits on Conqueror.

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5 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

I got news for you. Any high damage you recieve is non-healable. That incudes and heavy hits on Conqueror.

Thank you very much.

But I'd call that fake news. :Smile_smile:

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