Richelieu, your opinon on guns dispersion?

[elblancogringo]

Dear all,

I have been waiting for the french BB line, and I couldn't hold in my impatience when I saw the first comments and tests about those ships.

However, I am now concerned about the tier 8 Richelieu, which is one of the most iconic ship of the french line.

Will she be released in its current PTS state? The gun dispersion is awful, and you can't have any consistent damage in her. You can't efficiently hit ships, even when they are very close.

The ship has weaknesses, as a high vulnerability to HE damage because of the light deck armor, but it seems that she's not at all rewarding good aim.

If she is realeased in this state, what would be the reason to play her, instead of Amagi, North Carolina, Bismarck/Tirpitz ? (I forgot Monarch for a good reason)

What is your opinion about this dispersion, and about her gun efficiency?

Cheers

[BeauNidl3]

I thought she was already released in final form? Seem some on the live server in games.

[AmazingBeaver]

WG is out of ideas, they want to introduce more BB's because more BB players=more money...so they did go bat EDIT crazy on British battleships and the result was a complete disaster with their braindead playstyle, making the overall meta even worse. They didn't wan't to repeat this, but as they don't actually understand their own game and France had a pretty amazing potential of becoming one of the most interesting and competitive line, WG came up with a rather boring and mediocre line with one gimmick tool and the only way of balancing them, they gave high RNG value for their guns. For competitive gameplay, original, core ships are still way to go and the new gimmick ships remain just as a money bait

[aboomination]

Will grind the xp for t9 in the upcoming operation, my 2 cents ^^

[Azalgor]

Aint all BB dispersion awfull? The numbers on dispersion and sigma values are BS because it all goes completely random and how RNG feels about it...

[elblancogringo]

9 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Aint all BB dispersion awfull? The numbers on dispersion and sigma values are BS because it all goes completely random and how RNG feels about it...

Not really, Japanese and American lines have good accuracy at tier 8 and above.

I would trade everyday that speed boost for a better accuracy on Richelieu's guns.

Amagi and North Carolina are so much better than this ship.

German guns are not accurate, but their good secondaries and their good armor balance this. For Richelieu, nothing is here to balance that poor dispersion.

[Niibler]

Is it worst than the Monarch?

 

Press X for doubt.

[Tungstonid]

1 hour ago, elblancogringo said:

However, I am now concerned about the tier 8 Richelieu, which is one of the most iconic ship of the french line.

Will she be released in its current PTS state? The gun dispersion is awful, and you can't have any consistent damage in her. You can't efficiently hit ships, even when they are very close.

 

 

Well... Welcome to playing BBs.

 

29 minutes ago, AmazingBeaver said:

They didn't wan't to repeat this, but as they don't actually understand their own game and France had a pretty amazing potential of becoming one of the most interesting and competitive line, WG came up with a rather boring and mediocre line with one gimmick tool and the only way of balancing them, they gave high RNG value for their guns.

 

What could have made French BBs competitive and interesting compared to other ships? It sounds like there is something WG could have copied/taken inspiration from the real life things. I doubt it is the glass bottom, the white flag or the speed boost.

 

8 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Aint all BB dispersion awfull? The numbers on dispersion and sigma values are BS because it all goes completely random and how RNG feels about it...

 

Yes, all the dispersion of all BBs is awful ... compared to CAs or DDs. Whether it is good or not is a different topic.

If you think dispersion and sigma values don't matter, you should read a bit about this topic, though... While RNG decides the outcome of a salvo, there is a measurable difference between 1,8 and 2,1 sigma.

[Capra76]

19 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Aint all BB dispersion awfull? The numbers on dispersion and sigma values are BS because it all goes completely random and how RNG feels about it...

Not at T8, at least if you're not camping on the map border.

 

I've only played a couple of games with it on PT but this felt more like T3/4 dispersion, horrible.  I'm not sure what it gets to make up for it either.

[aboomination]

45 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Aint all BB dispersion awfull?

Yeh, but this BB's dispersion is awful compared to other BB 

[Captain_Newman]

I feel like AP was nerfed across the board with the recent patches, that might have something to do with that inconsistency as well. Today I had to switch to HE spamming in my Hipper because a Pensacola was giving me nothing but ricochets on full broadsides. A ship whose armor is largely made of wishful thinking takes a full volley amidships when full broadside by a bunch of 203's and I get 6 ricochets. 6. Not even a single overpen, just 0 damage by a cruiser whose strength is supposed to be AP. Had a similar experience with a New Orleans recently, he was spamming me with AP and doing reliable damage when heavily angled, I AP'd him several times when he was giving me almost full broadside for nothing but ricochets and shatters. Battleships are the same, it's come to a point when even when I've had a high damage game in an AP-strong ship, it was just luck. It's hard to enjoy the game like this. Don't even get me started on overpenning yamato's citadel from 5km, or all those normal pens for 0 damage that have been happening a lot lately. Doing any sort of damage with AP has become way too glitchy and reliant on dumb luck. When I jump in my Fletcher I don't get dud torpedoes every 8/10 hits, now do I? When a torp hits, it hits. But shells, it's ricochet city if you haven't sacrificed a goat to the rng gods lately. Really, really frustrating.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Seems ok from PT and what I've used on the Live Server. Nothing amazing but then again I find German BBs acceptable.

 

Just play stuff like Missouri, Monty, Amagi and Warspite if you want accurate BBs 

[Bbqparty]

This trend of making new battleships have terrible accuracy when something about the ship seems strong which started with German line is getting out of hand. They need to stop doing this it's getting stupid.

[Captain_Newman]

Just making shooting AP more reliant on skill and less casino luck-type would fix a lot of these issues. If a ship class is a brawler and less effective at range, so be it, if I go for that line I'll adjust my play style - but when I hit, especially a broadside target, don't give me that ricochet and overpen crap. I know WG is trying to balance things by reducing the amount of bb's, but making them super frustrating to play isn't the way to do this. Neither is giving torp missions that basically guarantee most matches will have 5 DD's in them - that's not fun even if I'm one of said DD's.

[Exocet6951]

The guns are odd to classify...

On one hand, the shells work fine. They're big enough to punch through everything you can realistically expect to punch through, but not too big as to overpen literally everything.
On the other, the accuracy makes the guns unreliable. Couple that with the Richelieu's lack of volume of fire, and it falls short.

However, on the Alsace, 12 of these guns with essentially a free 26 second reload speed thanks to the T9-10 equipment slot, and quick turrets that can be further sped with captain skills mean that the guns work beautifully.
So it's not so much the guns that are the issue, it's mostly just the Richelieu's anemic volume of fire coupled with a regular rate of fire which just makes the entire ship be just meh.
 

[Gojuadorai]

15 hours ago, AmazingBeaver said:

WG is out of ideas, they want to introduce more BB's because more BB players=more money...so they did go bat EDIT crazy on British battleships and the result was a complete disaster with their braindead playstyle, making the overall meta even worse. They didn't wan't to repeat this, but as they don't actually understand their own game and France had a pretty amazing potential of becoming one of the most interesting and competitive line, WG came up with a rather boring and mediocre line with one gimmick tool and the only way of balancing them, they gave high RNG value for their guns. For competitive gameplay, original, core ships are still way to go and the new gimmick ships remain just as a money bait

 

QFT 

 

13 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Seems ok from PT and what I've used on the Live Server. Nothing amazing but then again I find German BBs acceptable.

 

and there lies the problem

german guns are only acceptable cause of secondaries and turtleback

 

[dblkion]

In its current state the ship is crap. Idk about any other T8 being worse. 

"Muh 8% spoodbest lasting 3mins"

[RUSSIANBlAS]

7 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

 

 

and there lies the problem

german guns are only acceptable cause of secondaries and turtleback

 

Yes yes , I get what your view is on BB accuracy and I even agree but BBs are too damn popular and it'll only get worse if you make them too good.

 

In Randoms the recent selection of BBs perform fine. Any fast BB can just be angled and the 30knots+ speed used to advance or run. You usually survive long enough to do some decent damage.

 

Besides Richelieu has a turtleback. 

[theta0123]

IRL the richelieu had bad dispersion. However this was identified in 1940 and was gonna be fixed. But then the german invasion came.

 

Post war, richelieu dispersion problems got fixed.

 

Bad dispersion issent that much of an issue with volume of fire. Lyon can manage good results. Alsace can aswel.

 

But richelieu and gascogne have to few guns to compensate for that. Wich gives us the current problem. Richelieu is a decent ship and can be usefull because of her all guns forward

 

This is why gascogne will be a failure. It has 1 turret up front.one in the back. With the same crap dispersion. She gets a faster reload but this will not compensate. Making gascogne another kii. Will barely be used

[IamTroublemaker]

I'm actually glad they have bad dispertion because bad dispertion possibly means less stronk sniper A/J line BBs

[elblancogringo]

1 hour ago, Troublemaker_CRO said:

I'm actually glad they have bad dispertion because bad dispertion possibly means less stronk sniper A/J line BBs

No they will try to snipe anyway, but they won't hit their target...

[Captain_Singleton]

i've played a few in it now, it seems fine, no worse than the German equivalent...

[ApolloF117]

its simple, a big pile of crap, and the secs die too easy

[El2aZeR]

Quote

France (the ship): why does it have such a bad dispersion?
Oooh, I wished we talked about the naming. France will be renamed to République. The name France wasn’t chosen random for paper-ships, it’s always rationalised and logical. Other names were Napoleon, Charlemagne, About the gunplatform: Sub isn’t sure it’s a bad performer, they had to compensate for gun layout & barrelcount, so they buffed RoF, so now she performs as it should. Tighter dispersion would mean insta-delete cruisers, which isn’t that desirable.

 

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/7xxfm7/072_qa_transcript_with_lordofdroid_and_sub/

 

Yeah, it's France/Republique instead of Richelieu being discussed, but the same logic applies.

 

Although the latter part especially makes me go

Spoiler

 

[Panzerblitz]

Actually I find the gun dispersion to be quite good. Definitely better than the Bismarck, but not as good as the NC.

The problem that the ship has is the lack of dpm, since 8 15" guns firing every 30 seconds is not that hot, even if you can bring your full battery to bear in most situations. At tier 8-9 it's workable, at tier 10 it's a joke. The NC for example is a much better ship when getting uptiered and thanks to 9x 16" a more credible threat.