The best cruiser at Tier 7 ?

[Paimentaja]

1 hour ago, Centurion_1711 said:

I haven't got any T10's yet, my highest ranked ships are New Orleans (soon to move though), Edinburgh and Kiev. Never bothered with the German line, the Yorck and Hipper had a lot of bad press, not to mention the Konigsberg that eats citadels from even DD's at long range. Having said that I am certainly better at WoWs than when I first started (I cringe at the broadside I used to show in cruisers ), so I don't mind fragile ships now (loved the Pepsi as I've said). I'm a bit low on credits at the moment, but when they build back up I'll probably get Shchors and some IFHE to hurt the camping BB's!

Ok. Hinderburg is at the top of my list. Its the most versatile ship available and I would recommend it to anyone. All the other cruisers have somewhat different playstyle, but germans are kind of the jacks of all trades. It can be played in so many different styles you can imagine and it is very tanky and hard to citadell. Only long range BB shells are terrifying in it. At close range, virtually all the cruisers have a hard time with her.

 

USSR ships are more or less HE spammers and good at it. If that suits best your playstyle, then they are very good choice. Specially Donskoi has phenomenal shell, in velocity and HE. It also has no problem to citadel other cruisers. IFHE is the weapon of choice in USSR ships until Moskva, that does not benefit from it and is a different kind of ship anyway. Donskoi even gets usable torpedoes.

 

I tend to like many ships in this game, they mostly just need some time to get figured out. I try to play every ship accordingly and get the point of its abilities and how to use them, what is a no-no and so on. So if I have one stellar round with one ship, it does not mean that it will perform like that all the time and with all players. But I had a lot of good games with Shchors pretty soon I got her. Playstyle was more or less very much like IJN cruisers, specially the Mogami with small caliber guns. That was an absolute beast with IFHE.

[VC381]

Shchors is a good ship, but it can be a bit binary. Either sit at long range and eventually farm tons of damage but have no game impact, or try something aggressive and get deleted. If you find the balance between those though, you're on to a winner. I don't have hugely fond memories of it but it's pretty high in my stats of T7 cruisers so I must have been doing something right. Think I even got a couple of Krakens in it which is not bad in 18 games.

[Paimentaja]

5 minutes ago, VC381 said:

Shchors is a good ship, but it can be a bit binary. Either sit at long range and eventually farm tons of damage but have no game impact, or try something aggressive and get deleted. If you find the balance between those though, you're on to a winner. I don't have hugely fond memories of it but it's pretty high in my stats of T7 cruisers so I must have been doing something right. Think I even got a couple of Krakens in it which is not bad in 18 games.

Well said. It will not be an easy ship to play, but once the balance and no-no's are found, it is very effective. Downside was mentioned also ; It gets rekt insanely easily. You have very nice stats with it :)

 

Edit : Oh, and you seem to perform also very nicely with the "premium hipper". I just love german cruisers. :)

[VC381]

33 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Well said. It will not be an easy ship to play, but once the balance and no-no's are found, it is very effective. Downside was mentioned also ; It gets rekt insanely easily. You have very nice stats with it :)

 

Edit : Oh, and you seem to perform also very nicely with the "premium hipper". I just love german cruisers. :)

 

Thanks, you seem to as well good to see Eugen get some love, her and Hipper are really under-appreciated. For me it's a ship that just "clicks", I wouldn't be able to explain what to do to someone who doesn't like it, I just do and it works!

[Paimentaja]

6 minutes ago, VC381 said:

 

Thanks, you seem to as well good to see Eugen get some love, her and Hipper are really under-appreciated. For me it's a ship that just "clicks", I wouldn't be able to explain what to do to someone who doesn't like it, I just do and it works!

"Life begins at Admiral Hipper"

 

At first, when I got the Eugen from santa box, I was like 'meh', but then I realized that it was exactly what I wanted : Prem t8 cruiser that was no more or less than the outstanding Hipper. Yei!

[VC381]

Actually that's one reason I like Algerie. She's surprisingly similar to Eugen in playstyle.

[Mr_Tayto]

4 hours ago, VC381 said:

Actually that's one reason I like Algerie. She's surprisingly similar to Eugen in playstyle.

I loved Algerie, awesome ship. Martel also amazing.

 

Hipper and Eugen are badly underappreciated, but it's like a previous poster said; some ships get bad press (like Pepsi), but in reality there are very few bad ships - only bad players, or at the very least players who refuse to adapt to different playstyles in the same line.

 

I really struggled with Yorck until it clicked, made Hipper, Eugen and Roon much easier when I realised how to play Yorck.

[RAMJB]

2 hours ago, Mr_Tayto said:

\

Hipper and Eugen are badly underappreciated, but it's like a previous poster said; some ships get bad press (like Pepsi), but in reality there are very few bad ships -\

 

I'm currently playing the Hipper, and honestly it's rep as a "meh" ship at best is deserved: No team-oriented consumable at all (not even DFAA given the because bad range of the 105mm AAA guns your "bubble" range is pretty bad, so you're much better off using hydro) uninspiring reload, low guncount (and distributed fore and aft so is not as if you can angle all the time), awful (horrible, in fact) HE, battleship size and horrible rudder shift time for a cruiser....and the concealment of a Jumbo Jet dropping flares. Oh, and most your games will be T10 matchmaking and the ship uptiers extremely poorly. Fun,fun,fun.

It's not all bad news as at least the guns are effective up to their very respectable range, AP damage is terrific (but so situational that can hardly counted as a big strenght), and the usual double-barrage of torpedoes per side can be very useful on a tight spot. And it has a lot of hitpoints for a cruiser but given that the second a BB looks your general direction your armor is as good as not existant...well, it's again a strenght, but one that isn't really that meaningful.

Is it bad?....well is the worst of the T8 cruisers I've played (and short of the Martel which everyone says is a very good ship, I've played them all) and it is so by a far and wide stretch. Yes, it can do nice stuff, but whatever stuff you do in a Hipper you'll be far best off doing (and doing far better) in any other T8 cruiser. For me, that means is indeed a bad ship.

[Mr_Tayto]

2 hours ago, RAMJB said:

 

I'm currently playing the Hipper, and honestly it's rep as a "meh" ship at best is deserved: No team-oriented consumable at all (not even DFAA given the because bad range of the 105mm AAA guns your "bubble" range is pretty bad, so you're much better off using hydro) uninspiring reload, low guncount (and distributed fore and aft so is not as if you can angle all the time), awful (horrible, in fact) HE, battleship size and horrible rudder shift time for a cruiser....and the concealment of a Jumbo Jet dropping flares. Oh, and most your games will be T10 matchmaking and the ship uptiers extremely poorly. Fun,fun,fun.

It's not all bad news as at least the guns are effective up to their very respectable range, AP damage is terrific (but so situational that can hardly counted as a big strenght), and the usual double-barrage of torpedoes per side can be very useful on a tight spot. And it has a lot of hitpoints for a cruiser but given that the second a BB looks your general direction your armor is as good as not existant...well, it's again a strenght, but one that isn't really that meaningful.

Is it bad?....well is the worst of the T8 cruisers I've played (and short of the Martel which everyone says is a very good ship, I've played them all) and it is so by a far and wide stretch. Yes, it can do nice stuff, but whatever stuff you do in a Hipper you'll be far best off doing (and doing far better) in any other T8 cruiser. For me, that means is indeed a bad ship.

Fair comment. I hated NO, so swings and roundabouts. I liked it enough (and subjectively, did well enough in it) to buy Prinz Eugen.

 

If you don't like the gun layout, you won't like Roon until you adapt your playstyle. And, at least for me, Hindy plays almost exactly the same; a big, tanky gun platform that can punish anything it wants to at range.

[RAMJB]

Roon and Hindenburg have something PE lacks in spades and which is probably what damns the ship the most: rate of fire.

I've played Hindenburg in clan battles and I loved the feeling of the ship. 12 guns (6 in an angling position, not 4) with a RoF of one shot each 8.8s with the module make all the difference. That's 50% more guns shooting 50% faster. Day and night. That's why I haven't given up on the line ;).

[AnotherDuck]

12 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

USSR ships are more or less HE spammers and good at it. If that suits best your playstyle, then they are very good choice. Specially Donskoi has phenomenal shell, in velocity and HE. It also has no problem to citadel other cruisers. IFHE is the weapon of choice in USSR ships until Moskva, that does not benefit from it and is a different kind of ship anyway. Donskoi even gets usable torpedoes.

You should also never forget that with those great shell arcs comes good penetration, even at long range, so if you see a broadside, switch to AP. Best in the line for AP is still Kirov and Moskva, though.

[EsaTuunanen]

9 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

You should also never forget that with those great shell arcs comes good penetration, even at long range, so if you see a broadside, switch to AP. Best in the line for AP is still Kirov and Moskva, though.

Lots of people indeed forget that high speed shells at flat trajectory retain their penetration quite well to long range.

Simply because effective armor thickness doesn't increase as fast as with rainbow trajectory guns.

Also fast trajectory makes aiming to right spots easier.

 

Shchors AP would simply eat side showing Colorado alive with that fast reload.

Also Nagato's upper hull is soft, but especially all or nothing armor layout USN BBs are very vulnerable to smaller caliber APs.

[Centurion_1711]

20 hours ago, EsaTuunanen said:

Lots of people indeed forget that high speed shells at flat trajectory retain their penetration quite well to long range.

Simply because effective armor thickness doesn't increase as fast as with rainbow trajectory guns.

Also fast trajectory makes aiming to right spots easier.

 

Shchors AP would simply eat side showing Colorado alive with that fast reload.

Also Nagato's upper hull is soft, but especially all or nothing armor layout USN BBs are very vulnerable to smaller caliber APs.

I think AP is an under-rated ammo type now anyway. With the number of BB's that spam it, I've noticed some cruisers (IJN ones, mainly) refuse to switch to AP even against broadside cruisers. All 8" AP (or larger) is good, shame people don't use it often enough.

[AnotherDuck]

36 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

I've noticed some cruisers (IJN ones, mainly) refuse to switch to AP even against broadside cruisers.

The biggest hurdle they have is the long reload. That's probably why so many are hesitant to switch, since it's very easy to see a broadside, switch, the enemy turns, so you switch back, and then the enemy shows broadside again. Repeat as necessary.

[Paimentaja]

On ‎24‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 10:50 PM, RAMJB said:

 

-snip-

Sorry to hear that she did'nt cut the mustard for you.

 

AP damage is god-like when used to fully broadsided ships ; BBS will get punished for 6-10k and cruisers significally more because the citadells you'll be getting. But it has to be well aimed salvo to fully broadsided ship.

 

It really lacks some AA and fully investing to it will give you only 'meh' performance. DFAA will cause the panic-mode so you will protect your own behind, but teamplaywise it really is not-that-good. (Range)

 

The thing with Hipper and rest of the German CA line, is CQC ; From Hipper to Hindenburg, one should not fear to be fighting mid-to-close range. It can take a lot of punishment from lets say 8-12km ; Virtually no citadells will be received. If you camp in long range (+15km) you will be eating citadells like a MF. It can do long range HE spam (yeahyeah the loading time is terrible) but that is not the way to play it. One should play long range only when there is no other options / the game is in the very beginning. One should always look for trouble and try to get closer.

 

If that is a problem for the player, then this ship is most likely not for him/her.

[Paimentaja]

On ‎25‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 2:57 AM, RAMJB said:

Roon and Hindenburg have something PE lacks in spades and which is probably what damns the ship the most: rate of fire.

I've played Hindenburg in clan battles and I loved the feeling of the ship. 12 guns (6 in an angling position, not 4) with a RoF of one shot each 8.8s with the module make all the difference. That's 50% more guns shooting 50% faster. Day and night. That's why I haven't given up on the line ;).

You shall be rewarded when you complete the grind. It is just amazing ship. Definately something to wait for.

[VC381]

41 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

I think AP is an under-rated ammo type now anyway. With the number of BB's that spam it, I've noticed some cruisers (IJN ones, mainly) refuse to switch to AP even against broadside cruisers. All 8" AP (or larger) is good, shame people don't use it often enough.

 

Yeah, IJN AP is a bit unreliable in the penetration department though and as @AnotherDuck said you can pre-load your AP only for the target to turn slightly and that's your shot wasted. Besides the HE is god tier so less incentive to switch. Don't get me wrong I do use AP on IJN CAs and get the odd devastating strike on a cruiser but it requires setup and a bit of luck. Of all the ships to not switch ammo on, they're the most understandable case.

 

Now if you're USN and don't care if they angle, or German and can quickly train turrets on another unsuspecting target, then AP is really worth it and the switch is low risk.

[RAMJB]

I'm doing ok-ish with it. But I feel terribly limited by the abysmal DPM. Yes, broadsides give a huge lot of damage, problem is that noone with a working brain cell will give the side to a german cruiser. It's a strenght, but a situational strenght at best, you can't rely on that, specially not when it's a ship that gets uptiered so much, and in T9 and T10 games trying to venture alone trying to win a good flanking position might (and usually does) end very badly for a T8 cruiser.

Close range with a hipper...yeah well the torps are great. but again the rate of fire means you'll be chewed much faster than what you can bite the enemy at those ranges, considering the likely close-in scenario is bow on ship to bow on ship or bow on ship vs kiting dude (again, noone will give you his side) and the abysmal HE performance with the very poor reload... You'll be shooting every 12 seconds with shells that do the wimpiest damage imaginable...meanwhile whatever's shooting back is smashing you with a much faster reload rate and HE that actually gets the job done. It's a serious killer.

and that if it's a cruiser. Against DDs you get to choose wether you want to overpen them, or scratch them for horridly low damage each 12 seconds while they merrily flee away not being too much bothered. And against BBs...if they know how to aim at your nose and not your side, citadel galore.

So...close range?...can't see the HIpper being that kind of animal tbh.

I have first hand experience with the Hindy from the clan battles loan, and I love it. 8.8s reload, 50% extra guncount. We're talking about around 75% extra firepower. THAT is something that wrecks face and then some. Roon has the same reload as hindy and one gun more. Again, that is something that wrecks face and then some. More guns, more rate of fire, much higher fire chance - HE is actually useful in those...in Hipper is next to useless.

And they get heals. So they can get in close, wreck those faces, and regain some health afterwards. With a hipper you go in close and whatever's left of your ship when you get out will blow up with a good aimed BB salvo.

So Hipper...nope. It's just bad. And far from meaning that me not liking it means that the line won't click for me, it means that once I'm past this hurdle I'll finally have a cruiser I'll love, because precisely the reason why I'm having so much trouble (horrid rate of fire) those ships are really good at ;).

[Paimentaja]

1 minute ago, RAMJB said:

I'm doing ok-ish with it. But I feel terribly limited by the abysmal DPM. Yes, broadsides give a huge lot of damage, problem is that noone with a working brain cell will give the side to a german cruiser.

Close range with a hipper...yeah well the torps are great. but again the rate of fire means you'll be chewed much faster than what you can bite the enemy at those ranges, considering the likely close-in scenario is bow on ship to bow on ship or bow on ship vs kiting dude (again, noone will give you his side) and the abysmal HE performance with the very poor reload... it's a serious killer.

I have first hand experience with the Hindy from the clan battles loan, and I love it. 8.8s reload, 50% extra guncount. We're talking about around 75% extra firepower. THAT is something that wrecks face and then some. Roon has the same reload as hindy and one gun more. Again, that is something that wrecks face and then some. More guns, more rate of fire, much higher fire chance - HE is actually useful in those...in Hipper is next to useless.

And they get heals. So they can get in close, wreck those faces, and regain some health afterwards. With a hipper you go in close and whatever's left of your ship when you get out will blow up with a good aimed BB salvo.

So Hipper...nope. It's just bad. And far from meaning that me not liking it means that the line won't click for me, it means that once I'm past this hurdle I'll finally have a cruiser I'll love, because precisely the reason why I'm having so much trouble (horrid rate of fire) those ships are really good at ;).

Hipper's HE got a little buff recently : It now has the 1/4 penetration bonus. I find it to be working quite well now. It lacks in fire chance, but it still does its job. Ofc there will be better more guns in upper tiers, but basically those are very similar ships. Hipper could have a little touch to be made regarding the load time though. HE is precisely the same in all the mentioned ships.

 

Heal. Ok. T8.

 

Yes, every ship will be blown away with well aimed BB salvo. Should've add that when getting to close range (in any ship) you should'nt go against the whole fleet. Not any ship just can't do it and its stupid. But just try in the training room to punish Hipper from close range and then do the same to other T8's.

 

I get the point what you say, just don't get the hate it's been given. Mostly, it is not the ship that is performing badly. The following ships in the line will perform better in other fields as the Hipper, but, they will also shine in the same fields as her.

[RAMJB]

You can check my stats and you'll see that I'm not doing bad in it. I just feel handcuffed. Most games against T10s, and in those you just rely on your team to open a breach you can use to do something useful, because the second you're spotted everyone, their mother, their siter, and even the 2nd cousin once removed of the building's janitor will shoot at you. Because cruiser. And T8 to boot.

I've never felt that useless and team dependant in any cruiser so far. Not in my T8s either. Mogami has the concealment to work his own path to a good firing position and once things begin to heat up, to get out of it and retreat. and it's shells hit like a brick. In the New Orleans I had the same concealment, a radar I could use for my team's advantage (so I'm far from useless at the early stages of a game) and a very good behind-the-island positional fighter with those gun arcs, with pretty good reload and american AP.

In the Chapayev (though I've suffered horridly from the stock grind, finally I have the B hull now)...well it's a kutuzov with radar and no smoke,  so the couple games I've had with her in the B hull I just played it like a Schors with the eventual rush in to use radar at key moments. It a potential killing machine from afar and a DPM monster.

In the Hipper I have...nothing of that?. I have to rely in the team to open a gap I can move in and exploit to reap AP flanking shots. I can't do much on my own. It's bad from behind islands, it's bad against bow in opponents (1/4 or not, with that HE damage, 8 guns and that reload, the DPM is pathetic). It has no team oriented consumable (not even DFAA is good on it). Again, in it I feel like handcuffed and tied to whatever the MM has placed me into, because I depend on my team to do decently in order to open chances for me to exploit.

I hate that feeling.

BTW I also was talking about rushing opponents 1v1 to force close in scenarios. Angling won't work against BBs that blows your nose and not scratch your side (so against a decent BB you're toast). Against cruisers, everything is better than you when angled (higher ROF, better HE shells, more guns). And against DDs...well at least I have hydro....but even against those I feel like shooting peashooters and not 203mm HE shells.


the issues will go away when I finally get past it because again what mostly kills it for me is the mix of limited guncount and rate of fire. Low HE damage shells I can live with, if I can pump them out fast enough and in decent number...problem is Hipper doesn't fire fast, and doesn't have enough guns.

[VC381]

The thing about Hipper's DPM is it relies on armour penetration (the HE as well) and to an extent target selection. It's not a cruiser you are meant to spam a single target with. The strength of the guns is that between the fast turret traverse and excellent muzzle velocity you have a large effective threat radius around you. You can switch targets when other cruisers would take too long to do so and hit reliably for good damage at ranges impractical for most. I think the dislike comes from a different expectation of what a cruiser should do. It's not a ship that holds your hand and shows you how to play it, or that you can fall back on a lazy safe playstyle. It's an opportunist that relies on versatility and reacting to change and it's constant work, but it is effective.

[RAMJB]

52 minutes ago, VC381 said:

The thing about Hipper's DPM is it relies on armour penetration (the HE as well) and to an extent target selection. It's not a cruiser you are meant to spam a single target with. The strength of the guns is that between the fast turret traverse and excellent muzzle velocity you have a large effective threat radius around you. You can switch targets when other cruisers would take too long to do so and hit reliably for good damage at ranges impractical for most. I think the dislike comes from a different expectation of what a cruiser should do. It's not a ship that holds your hand and shows you how to play it, or that you can fall back on a lazy safe playstyle. It's an opportunist that relies on versatility and reacting to change and it's constant work, but it is effective.

 

It's effective for me too in what regards to damage done. Well, some of the games. others not. Because it's not a matter of spamming a target or not, is that if your team is the collection of ... what they usually are, all your enemies are going to be bow in and coming for you the second they overwhelm the flank that the soupeating  BBS who are behind the spawn didn't support. 

 

All I know was that 5 out of my 6 last games in it ended with me charging a T10 battleship (and dying) because my whole team had disintegrated as usual around me while I had 0 shots on anyone's broadside during the whole lot of the game (which I spent for the most part avoiding incoming volleys from t9 and t10 battleships). trying to use static cover was a no go because you either bug out when the charging reds are still pretty far away, or you won't be able to when they're on top of you.

To be fair in the last one I was able to fully bounce two consecutive Montana volleys at 7km (bow in, when he fires, angle to bounce on the belt). Third time he got wiser and shot both my front turrets and the whole lot of my superstructure away in what must've been a 15k salvo. Then his team finished me up before I could turn for a torpedo salvo. The ship has tricks, but those won't work against decent players.

 

 

AS for the ability to switch targets...let me see. Hipper has a 22s 180º turret traverse. NO has 27 (which I deem as mostly negligible), Chapayev 25s (same deal), Edinburgh and Martel 25.7s (not much has changed), Mogami 26.9.

Hipper feels awesome in turret traverse because you just transition to it from a ship with pretty bad ones (Yorck), but I've never felt any lack of turret traverse in any of the T8 cruisers I've played (fully researched, that is. Because I did begin my Mogami grind when those 155mm turrets rotated with the apparent acceleration of a turtle with flu and boy THAT was painful)...and exception made of the Martel, I have experience on them all.  Yes, hipper may be the best of them but is the best on something where all the others aren't bad at anyway.

Dunno, I see what you mean, but I can't see it working, much less in the constant T10 matchmaking this ship sees. out of all T8 cruisers this one is by far the one that upscales the worst...or at least is what I feel when I play it. And all the other cruisers at least I feel like I can do something worth mention even if my team is the usual collection of potatoes. in this one, if my team are potatoes, then, again, I feel handcuffed.


 

[VC381]

As I said, don't really know how to explain why I like Hipper/Eugen. In the same way you say you feel handcuffed for me it just comes together. Just a difference of playstyle and expectation. I do use both rudder shift modules to help with the agility.

[Paimentaja]

1 hour ago, RAMJB said:

You can check my stats and you'll see that I'm not doing bad in it. I just feel handcuffed. Most games against T10s, and in those you just rely on your team to open a breach you can use to do something useful, because the second you're spotted everyone, their mother, their siter, and even the 2nd cousin once removed of the building's janitor will shoot at you. Because cruiser. And T8 to boot.

I've never felt that useless and team dependant in any cruiser so far. Not in my T8s either. Mogami has the concealment to work his own path to a good firing position and once things begin to heat up, to get out of it and retreat. and it's shells hit like a brick. In the New Orleans I had the same concealment, a radar I could use for my team's advantage (so I'm far from useless at the early stages of a game) and a very good behind-the-island positional fighter with those gun arcs, with pretty good reload and american AP.

In the Chapayev (though I've suffered horridly from the stock grind, finally I have the B hull now)...well it's a kutuzov with radar and no smoke,  so the couple games I've had with her in the B hull I just played it like a Schors with the eventual rush in to use radar at key moments. It a potential killing machine from afar and a DPM monster.

In the Hipper I have...nothing of that?. I have to rely in the team to open a gap I can move in and exploit to reap AP flanking shots. I can't do much on my own. It's bad from behind islands, it's bad against bow in opponents (1/4 or not, with that HE damage, 8 guns and that reload, the DPM is pathetic). It has no team oriented consumable (not even DFAA is good on it). Again, in it I feel like handcuffed and tied to whatever the MM has placed me into, because I depend on my team to do decently in order to open chances for me to exploit.

I hate that feeling.

BTW I also was talking about rushing opponents 1v1 to force close in scenarios. Angling won't work against BBs that blows your nose and not scratch your side (so against a decent BB you're toast). Against cruisers, everything is better than you when angled (higher ROF, better HE shells, more guns). And against DDs...well at least I have hydro....but even against those I feel like shooting peashooters and not 203mm HE shells.


the issues will go away when I finally get past it because again what mostly kills it for me is the mix of limited guncount and rate of fire. Low HE damage shells I can live with, if I can pump them out fast enough and in decent number...problem is Hipper doesn't fire fast, and doesn't have enough guns.

That is a feeling I know and that is kinda what Hipper is ; Handcuffed Hindenburg. One gun removed per turret and a lot worse reload time, less torps and worse AA. But that is also the thing with Algerie/Martel, they both come to the Saint-Louis. Don't get me wrong, I find the S-L to be excellent and Martel is handcuffed by missing the heal. Like all other T8's (except UK).

 

I guess to fall in love with some ship, you need to have that stellar round at first that opens your eyes and after that to get decent rounds constantly. It is very difficult ship to play, if one does not give her the opportunity needed. RNG can and will make some rounds frustrating, specially if that bad salvo hits you in the beginning from long range. AR is recommended to get the "best" out of it.

 

I have that feeling in Hipper / Eugen, that the more s*it ppl throw on you, the better the ship gets. Your different compartments gets saturated and those will no more give your ship HP to the opponents and it just keeps on surviving. That feeling on the edge gives me bursts of adrenaline and I like to sweat a little when playing this game. German CA's seems to do that best for me.

 

It feels like and it is outgunned. But to tip the scales, one should keep on trying to find targets constantly that you can do damage and in the mean time, use everything you can to help the team. Hydro is excellent, a "mini-radar" to be exact. It's no problem to spot ships through an island with it. If there is an annoying DD/CL firing you from smokes relatively close-by, pop the hydro and sail right in to and delete whatever you find there.

 

Edit : As a conclusion : Hipper does not feel to be a good ship, but it really is for most. Checked your stats and Hipper has the second best PR from your T8 cruisers. And if the premium is excluded (Kutuzov), it is the best. I know from the statements that you've made that you don't like it, but you perform in it pretty good. :)

[RAMJB]

45 minutes ago, VC381 said:

As I said, don't really know how to explain why I like Hipper/Eugen. In the same way you say you feel handcuffed for me it just comes together. Just a difference of playstyle and expectation. I do use both rudder shift modules to help with the agility.

 

That's fair enough. Some ships click for some players, others not so much. I do understand the ship, I see it's strenghts but I want my mount to be able to more or less be able to perform independently of the quality of the team MM decides to troll you with. Hipper certainly lacks in that department (certainly compared with the other T8s). I do agree that when placed in the ideal spot and conditions is probably the T8 cruiser that can wreck the most stuff in the least time (have also had games like that with it), but again that's situational and team dependant. You can try to work out a good position to exploit your advantages but once and if things begin crumbling down you're mostly powerless while other ships have the means to either extricate themselves from that position (through concealment, or even smoke), or aren't really that position-dependant in order to perform to begin with.

As I said, I do see where you come from and I know you're not the only one who really likes the ship (I do my homework each time I get a new ship to understand it the best before I even begin the grind ;), so I've seen the positive comments from people for whom the ship really clicks). I guess this is one of those which don't really click for me.

 

23 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

That is a feeling I know and that is kinda what Hipper is ; Handcuffed Hindenburg.

Out of what I could feel out of the Hindy from the clan wars battles I've fought with it (I know competitive is a different animal than randoms, but still) that's a perfectly good description of the ship to me. I can see the potential, but the ship just isn't there yet. Probably that's something that also compounds my negative feelings about the ship...It's ALMOST there (seriously all it'd need would be a couple seconds shaved off it's reload and it'd be just a great ship for me), but not REALLY there.

At times gives me the feeling of annoyance you get when you're on the verge of getting something great but then...nope. It ends up being just OK, and you feel sour because you didn't get anything better even while you feel you were very close to it. 

And matchmaking doesn't help this ship at all either. So many T10 games. I know that's true for all T8s but some ships uptier better than others, and in that sense I haven't seen any other T8 that uptiers worse than this one. At least not that I have played yet.