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Strefs

[WiP] Z-39 T8 Premium Destroyer - early test stats

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unknown.pngZ-39 - Tier 8 Very  Work in Progress German Premium Destroyer

 

Hi guys, I am back once again!

Today, we've got something a little more different. Not a full preview as such, but rather an early sneak peak for an upcoming ship. Basically, a leak that isn't one! Up today is the Z-39. An upcoming T8 German premium destroyer. I'll be comparing her in the following table directly to the Z-23, since she is of the same class and they share similarities.

 

 

 

 

Ship Z-23 Z-39
Survivability 19500 19600
Artillery 3x1 and 1x2 15cm OR [4x12,8cm] 4x 15cm
Alpha, (Fire Chance)

2200 HE (12%), 3700 AP [1500 HE (6%), 3000 AP]

2200 HE (12%), 3700 AP
Turn rate 22.5s for 180deg 22.5s for 180deg
Reload 6.7s [4s] 7.5s
Range 10.8km 11.8km
Torpedoes 2x4 533mm 2x4 533mm
Alpha 14400 14400
Range 9.5km 8.5km
Speed 67kn 65kn
Detectibility 1.4km 1.3km
Reload 90s 90s
AA-Defense 20mm and 37mm 20mm and 37mm
Short-Range 41 dps @ 2.0km 20 dps @ 2.0km
Mid-Range 31 dps @ 3.5km 61 dps @ 3.5km
Maximum Speed 37kn 36kn
Turn Circle 680m 670m
Rudder Shift 4.5s 4.5s
Concealment [ with Camo]    
by Sea 7.7km 7.5km
by Air 4.4km 4.4km
firing from Smoke 3.4km 3.3km
Consumables DC, SMK, ENGBST, HYDR DC, SMK, ENGBST, HYDR

 

I've went ahead and highlighted the improvements and the drawbacks of the current ship. As you can see, she's running Z-23 stock torpedoes, lost a single gun, and gained a little AA. She's also a tiny bit more stealthier (fully stealth oriented @ 6.1km instead of 6.2km for the Z-23).

I think the loss of a gun for, pretty much mediocre still, AA was not a good trade. Fully AA oriented, she still can't compete with the Americans, Pan Asians and the Akizuki (and you'll likely lose out on other important skill points for her). unknown.png

She is also lacking torpedo range and speed. Overall the 100 extra hitpoints and 0.2km extra concealment do not really make up for these drawbacks. But she isn't lagging too far behind Z-23.

A bit on the consumables. At the moment they are identical to the ones found on the Z-23. No changes there.

Other than that, she doesn't look too bad.

 

 

Is this perhaps and out of the box "not-quite-better-than-the-real-deal-premium"? Thoughts and opinions? Keep in mind, we're at an very, very early test stage at the moment. So things are subject to change.

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While z23 is meh at best, and gets quite hard matchmaking, this thingie doesn't interest me at all, looking at those stats.

 

*keeps waiting for t61*

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Community Contributor, Beta Tester
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Just now, PzychoPanzer said:

While z23 is meh at best, and gets quite hard matchmaking, this thingie doesn't interest me at all, looking at those stats.

 

*keeps waiting for t61*

Well, at least this one doesn't straight up knock it's non-premium counterpart out of the water! We'll see in which way the T-61 will make it's return, but it seems to have gone of the radar like that one American destroyer that now has a heal...

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So she's basically a B-hull 15cm armed Z-23 that's missing Q turret? Interesting, and maybe worth considering.

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[HAERT]
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So a bad Z23 (which is a fairly uninspiring DD to start) with lousy torpedoes and indifferent guns.

 

No thanks, won't be buying it even though I really want a premium German DD.

I appreciate the review @Strefs, very useful.

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27 minutes ago, Strefs said:

Other than that, she doesn't look too bad.

 

But she doesn't look good either. If the ship offered an interesting difference to the silver counterpart, it would be great. But instead it offers a minimally better concealment and AA in return for one less gun, worse reload, and worse torp range.

For DDs those are things that matter. 2.4km stealth torp window is vastly inferior to a 3.3km one. And losing a gun means a lot when you are in a knife fight.

To me this ship offers not enough to be considered and I'm not comparing it to the T-61 which has been shelved according to the recent Q&A. When the silver ship looks better where it counts, there's something fishy going on.

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Just now, Aragathor said:

 

But she doesn't look good either. If the ship offered an interesting difference to the silver counterpart, it would be great. But instead it offers a minimally better concealment and AA in return for one less gun, worse reload, and worse torp range.

For DDs those are things that matter. 2.4km stealth torp window is vastly inferior to a 3.3km one. And losing a gun means a lot when you are in a knife fight.

To me this ship offers not enough to be considered and I'm not comparing it to the T-61 which has been shelved according to the recent Q&A. When the silver ship looks better where it counts, there's something fishy going on.

 

Which is of course, true. But considering what stage we are at here, is better than having something overkill, don't you agree?

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Lets compare T8 DDs.

 

Z39

Z23

Lo Yang

 

Basically

- Z39 is a worse Z23. In every meaningful way (torps, guns, hp, gun-range (less is better these days) ).The torp rangeis particularly painful.

- Z23 is a worse Lo Yang in every meaningful way (torps, guns, stealth, Hydro)

 

Out of the 3, Z39 comes a rock solid last.

Smells fishy.

Could be WG looking at giving Z39 the Lo Yang hydro, but even then it will remain an inferior Lo Yang (smoke, torps, guns, concealment worse).

Conclusion: It will get buffed.

 

 

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One would say with these stats that it is a more torpedo orientated DD....with worse torpedos.

 

This ship would fit better on t7 then t8

 

One small change could make it more worthwhile= buff the torpedoes.

-give her Z46 torpedoes at 10km range to compensate for the loss of a gun

-give her unique torpedoes. Long range but slower torpedoes (breaking the german incremental torpedo buildup) or DW torpedoes

-Add more AA guns. And give her DFS (aa boost) consumable. Make her a Kidd

 

Also release it together with the T61. in a nice pack. People love that..i would love that

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The only thing that saddens me are the guns. I didn't enjoy the 150mm guns on the gaede and the z23. So I doubt I'll enjoy the guns on this boat. 

On top of that, I want a premium German dd to put my z52 commander on for extra speed commander training and commander free xp farming. 

And it won't be effective if she has 150mm guns. 

 

What is her hydro range by the way? Same as the z23 or more in line with the lo yang? 

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32 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

- Z23 is a worse Lo Yang in every meaningful way (torps, guns, stealth, Hydro)

 

Could be WG looking at giving Z39 the Lo Yang hydro, but even then it will remain an inferior Lo Yang (smoke, torps, guns, concealment worse).

 

 

 

Not sure about that, the 9.5 km 65 knot KM torps are a far better overall package than either of the Lo Yang options and the 150 mm guns have pros and cons against the 127/38 on the LY.

 

Agree that I think they're angling for another super-hydro, because that :etc_swear:'s over other DD rather than hurt the BB master-race.

 

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1 hour ago, Capra76 said:

 

Not sure about that, the 9.5 km 65 knot KM torps are a far better overall package than either of the Lo Yang options and the 150 mm guns have pros and cons against the 127/38 on the LY.

 

Agree that I think they're angling for another super-hydro, because that :etc_swear:'s over other DD rather than hurt the BB master-race.

 

 

Take the two into battle and see for yourself. I tried it in ranked and after rank 10 it was all LY (didnt see other Z23s at all above rank 5 either)

 

An argument can probably be made for the 9,5 km torps, maybe even the guns (though I find the 150 mm lacking in the dds vs dd fights) but the rest of the package is massively inferior. Particularly maneuverability and hydro range, which is the real killer in ranked, but you can add much worse smoke, huge size (catering to members of the master-race) and slightly but significantly worse stealth. 

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20 godzin temu, PzychoPanzer napisał:

While z23 is meh at best, and gets quite hard matchmaking, this thingie doesn't interest me at all, looking at those stats.

 

*keeps waiting for t61*

T-61 will be tier VIII on tier VI, in my opinion. I’m waiting too. 

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On 16.2.2018 at 6:44 PM, Strefs said:

 

Which is of course, true. But considering what stage we are at here, is better than having something overkill, don't you agree?

 

Yes, but the fact that the ship isn't competitive should be communicated clearly to WG by as many people as possible. No one wants to see the GZ fiasco happen again, not that this case is similar.

Releasing previews of underperforming premiums should be met with an appropriate reaction from the community members.

 

6 hours ago, szparagus1 said:

T-61 will be tier VIII on tier VI, in my opinion. I’m waiting too. 

T-61 has been shelved, if they release it, it will probably be in a different state than the previewed one.

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Just now, Aragathor said:

Yes, but the fact that the ship isn't competitive should be communicated clearly to WG by as many people as possible.

Releasing previews of underperforming premiums should be met with an appropriate reaction from the community members.

Of course, your comment stands justified and valid. We can speculate, and (mind you, this is my personal opinion from now on) I think it will be buffed/something will be added to make it interesting, otherwise it'll likely be a waste of resources.

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[WOTN]
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The Z-39, as is, is just a bad variant of her silver counterpart. On the one hand it means that she isn't another overpowered premium, on the other hand that makes her entirely unattractive. I think that Wargaming is going too far the other way with their premiums. I would like to cite the Atago-Mogami balance as the best way to do premium ships. One has firepower, the other has ergonomics and survivability. If they want to keep the Z-39 as the design she is, they should either give her better torpedoes (e.g. the Z-46's upgraded torpedoes) or better DPM than the Z-23. Giving her worse guns and worse torpedoes even if they plan to give her significantly better consumables both makes her unbalanced and unattractive to the vast majority of players.

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Looks like even a mirror image e.g. Eugen and Hipper is a better prospect than this.

 

Guess it's what we get for whining about Prem ships. WG punished us with mediocre proposals.

 

The wait for a German DD crew trainer/Captain XP farmer continues...

 

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Z-39 rear gun angle forces you to go broadside (she has to angle 51 degreees to shoot rear gun). The only good thing about it that it has ~12 km gun range to shoot so you can engage enemy a bit further, so taking less return fire.

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3 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

Z-39 rear gun angle forces you to go broadside (she has to angle 51 degreees to shoot rear gun). The only good thing about it that it has ~12 km gun range to shoot so you can engage enemy a bit further, so taking less return fire.

 

Z-23 would be sooooo good with a 12km+ range. :cap_viking:

 

Here's what I'd do... (not inc soft stats)

 

Tech tree.

Z-35 to Z-43 (1936B fits between Maass and Z46 much better)

5 x 1 128mm guns. 4s reload, 11.5km range.

G7 Schildbutt torps.

 

Torpedo focused premium.

Z-23.

4 x 1 150mm guns. 7.5s reload, 10.5km range.

G7 Wolfsbarsch torps + optional torpedoes. Like DW or something else.

 

Gun focused premium.

Z-39.

5 x 1 150mm guns, 6-6.7s reload, 13km range.

G7 Steinbarsch torps.

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