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SovietFury43

Balance has been completely destoyed, the game has now been reduced to landslide victories or defeats.

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Since Cruisers have pretty much been reduced to nothing but targets for BBs, and with the state of carriers being what it is. Matches have been reduced to 5 BBs and 5 DDs per team. Those who mained Cruisers are now moving on to either BBs since there is no point in playing a Cruiser over a BB at this point, while those of us who don't want to play BBs are moving on to DDs.

 

As a result, matches have become either landslide victories or landslide defeats. Depending on how well your teams 5 DDs do early in the game, what types of DDs your team gets (since IJN DDs have to avoid other nations DDs at all costs and thus can not secure the advantage early on), and whether your 5 BBs actually have balls to push or not.

 

If your DDs fail to secure the advantage early on against enemy DDs, defeat is pretty much guaranteed, if they do secure the advantage early on, the match is a landslide victory, with the enemy team folding within literally 2-3 minutes. If you have more IJN DDs on your team then the enemy, you can not contest the caps as well as the enemy team and thus will have a much harder time securing the advantage early on. If your BBs have no balls and refuse to confront the enemy, the enemy BBs will just roll right over your whole team (due in no small part to the massive damage BB AP can now do to DDs) until all that is left are the cowardly BBs sniping from the back lines who then soon get overwhelmed and murdered.

 

Furthermore since CVs are now making a bit of a comeback, a huge rift has formed between CV players, dividing them up into the newbie's with 40% something win rate that still can't use their planes properly and can't read the battle well enough to know where to intervene, and the super unicums with 80% something win rate who just roflstomp the newbie's instantly and preceded to influence the battle unopposed any way they please. Since CVs have pretty much been non-existent in the game for so long, and the sorry state the Cruisers are in right now, there are not a lot of Cruisers running around with dedicated AA builds that would give those super unicum carrier players pause. 

 

In short the game has been reduced into BBs dominating the field every match and imbalanced DD skirmishes right at the start, with the occasional super unicum cerrier stomping everyone. Its become a complete mess, and i am not sure if it can even be salvaged at all at this point.

 

Edit: Here is an example of what matches look like now:

 

 

shot-18.02.16_14.14.25-0937.jpg

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And very similar to my experiences.

In addition to some people in chat calling B+C tactic and half of team agreeing, and then everyone goes to A and camp behind same island on trap for example(not exaggerated) until they lose in a stupidly one-sided game where we get absolutely crushed as they are all crumpled in one corner and get torpedoed from all sides as well as shot at from at least 2 sides and thus they cant angle to both, but since they are all in same position, opponents have no trouble mitigating almost all of the damage bow on.

The stupidity of mass hug aka "fleet play" that people think is even remotely good.

 

And even if they dont go one side, they still just camp behind islands and want you to go cap, and when you go and get spotted, 0 of them can shoot and support, because... well, they are behind islands! Every time if you check the minimap is the same deal, ships scattered around but almost exclusively behind any island they can find.

 

Ridiculous. And some people are actually trying to challenge and oppose claims that gameplay has worsened by a lot. Incredble stuff...

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Only difference is, now you need to cooperate with other players over the rate you sink enemy ships, so enemy team wouldn't run out of points...

...landslide victory averted. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Sadly you are right, and whatever balance there was it's gone for quite sometime. There is also issue of radars that WG has no clue how to include in their MM, so one team wouldn't end up with 4 while enemy on 1...

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I wouldn´t call cruisers obsolete, their skill ceiling is just much higher in order to perform well in them and have an actual influence on the battle.

 

The brilliantly designed missions (a ton of torp hits and torp damage) pretty much guarantee 4/5 DDs per side every match, with 2-3 BB per team. Honestly, I find this more interesting than the boring 5 BB per side camp meta. Once the missions are over and we get the (so far it seems retardproof) french baguettes, that will be able to run cruisers down, we get back to the 5 BB per team gameplay. Oh boy how do I regret selling the Belfast for doubloons and getting an Atago...

 

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9 minutes ago, Tekacko said:

I wouldn´t call cruisers obsolete, their skill ceiling is just much higher in order to perform well in them and have an actual influence on the battle.

 

The brilliantly designed missions (a ton of torp hits and torp damage) pretty much guarantee 4/5 DDs per side every match, with 2-3 BB per team. Honestly, I find this more interesting than the boring 5 BB per side camp meta. Once the missions are over and we get the (so far it seems retardproof) french baguettes, that will be able to run cruisers down, we get back to the 5 BB per team gameplay. Oh boy how do I regret selling the Belfast for doubloons and getting an Atago...

 

 

But the 5 BBs per side camp meta is still there. Only now you have 5 DDs skirmishing at the start of the match along with 5 BBs covering in the back and hoping that friendly DDs win.

 

And yeah, maybe a unicum Cruiser player can influence the battle as much as a potato BB. Surely you see the problem there.

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@SovietFury43,

 

Judging by this and other posts it seems that you are no longer finding any enjoyment in wows. Furthermore it seems that you hsve lost faith i  the developers and hope that anything can or will be done to make things better for you. 

 

I hope that things get better for you.

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1 hour ago, SovietFury43 said:

But the 5 BBs per side camp meta is still there. Only now you have 5 DDs skirmishing at the start of the match along with 5 BBs covering in the back and hoping that friendly DDs win.

 

For a tier X cruiser, for example, camping BB is not really that massive problem (alone). Nor is when there are 5 skirmishing DDs. Problem is when there are 5."cowardly" BB and 5."cowardly" DD (and also 2."cowardly" CA, while cowardly is too strong word, "with realistic view on thing" would maybe fit better).  And this is more or less general problem, specially when there is a torpedo mission. And biggest problem is for a cruiser player, that those 5.DDs usually do not skirmish with other DDs. They try do cap, they try do score long range torpedo hits, but they do not try do spot opposing DDs. What makes Cruiser pointless. Tier.X cruiser can not spot a DD on his own, but if the DD is spotted, they can dispose of it really fast. Rather often, if you drive to cap with your destroyers, DDs just stop in the edge of the cap circle and starts circling that edge or smoke up. And this will leave you, as not really that stealthy ship, perma-spotted by enemy DDs, you will get focused-down by enemy camping BBs (and CA). And you can not do anything about it. If those 5.DD would really skirmish, than CA would have a purpose. It has decent maneuverability, it is reasonably stealthy. So it can follow DDs in caps and if DD spots an enemy DD (skirmish with it, skirmishing is not wanking-about in the edge of cap) it can kill it fast and really help out a DD and for overall victory.

 

2 hours ago, SovietFury43 said:

Since Cruisers have pretty much been reduced to nothing but targets for BBs, and with the state of carriers being what it is. Matches have been reduced to 5 BBs and 5 DDs per team. Those who mained Cruisers are now moving on to either BBs since there is no point in playing a Cruiser over a BB at this point, while those of us who don't want to play BBs are moving on to DDs.

 

So, if people are migrating for DD or BB, it is not because CA (CL) are bad ships. No, mostly they are excellent. But because both BB and DD have distinct strong point - Range and armor on BB and stealth and maneuverability on DD. So they are easier to play (and suck in) than cruiser.Cruiser is more-or-less "average", it does not have any real strong point, it is reasonably good in anything. How strong or weak cruiser is, depends on how many of those "average" attributes can a cruiser use. Easiest example, Yamato and Shimakaze - Shimakaze can spot a cruiser, with no fear of being spotted and fire his torpedoes at it, at the same time Yamato can fire at that cruiser while staying well out of range for that cruiser. So in this case you would be better off in being in that Shimakaze or in Yamato. But, if we now add a friendly skirmishing Shimakaze in the mix, then tables are turned.  Now the enemy Shimakaze is screwed, Zao or Hindenburg with their 12.guns will kill it in as little as 16-20 seconds and after that that Yamato is screwed, because after disposing of that DD, CA can use its full spectrum of "average" attributes against it (and in this case, specially tier.9 and 10 CAs are extremely strong) not do mention that friendly Shimakaze.

 

What we have in the game is general lack of trust. BBs do not want do push because they are not that maneuverable and their only real strong point is range and armor at that range (due to lack of overall maneuverability, they are easy prey for torpedoes). CAs do not want to sail into cap with DDs and support them, because too often they are left do die by friendly DDs (so they would stay back and snipe, using only one average feature out of many, so their actual impact is very small). DDs do not want do spot enemy DDs, because usually CA will not come to support and they do not want to loose their only strong point (stealth).

 

Why we have the migration, is that: 1. Players like do play ship with distinct strong points.Cruiser is not it. 2. CA, while very good in general, are most team reliant ships. For example cruisers are stealthy and fast enough too approach into "killing-range" from the enemy DD, but they are not stealthy enough to spot him. (and so on)

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1 hour ago, Tekacko said:

I wouldn´t call cruisers obsolete, their skill ceiling is just much higher in order to perform well in them and have an actual influence on the battle.

I'd really love to know how to make cruisers work in the current meta.

 

I mean you can kite away and rack up damage numbers, but in terms of influencing the outcome what can you do?  Try to survive long enough and hope for the 1/10 battles where you can make a difference?

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2 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

I'd really love to know how to make cruisers work in the current meta.

 

I mean you can kite away and rack up damage numbers, but in terms of influencing the outcome what can you do?  Try to survive long enough and hope for the 1/10 battles where you can make a difference?

In current meta. It would be too team-up, division -up, with either 2XCA and 1.DD or 2XCA and a CV. If you have good teamplay between you, then that combination is much stronger than BB or DD divisions.

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1 minute ago, Capra76 said:

I'd really love to know how to make cruisers work in the current meta.

 

I mean you can kite away and rack up damage numbers, but in terms of influencing the outcome what can you do?  Try to survive long enough and hope for the 1/10 battles where you can make a difference?

At least in high tier games, especially radar cruisers seem to have a decent impact on the result. Or ships like Hindenburg, which have great DPM and good survivability, do not feel outclassed by BBs

 

At mid tiers though, unless you play something downright broken (ehm, Belfast), your influence is, indeed, pretty small, since 5 BBs per team pretty much force you to stay back and snipe. Never mind getting uptiered +2 results in you being pretty much just cannon fodder, due to no sustainability and abysmal range. This problem is compounded by certain high tier maps having close to zero cover. So meanwhile everyone is sniping from max range, the average cruiser player can pretty much go AFK since he has no way of getting within range without getting instantly shot to pieces. I do remember some matches on Mountain Range, Okinawa, etc... where the battle ended before I actually managed to get into a position from which I could at least take a few potshots, since the range is ABYSMAL. +-15km gun range on maps like that is just completely inadequate.

 

I feel like the inability of the majority of cruisers to mount hydro AND defensive AA at the same time is the reason they have such a small effect on the outcome of the battle. They simply can´t do their job properly - hunt DDs and protect the fleet with AA at the same time.

 

I think that, at least, heavy cruisers should be able to slot them both at the same time.

 

The abysmal survivability of certain cruisers doesn´t help either....

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3 hours ago, justadude0815 said:

@SovietFury43,

 

Judging by this and other posts it seems that you are no longer finding any enjoyment in wows. Furthermore it seems that you hsve lost faith i  the developers and hope that anything can or will be done to make things better for you. 

 

I hope that things get better for you.

 

Tell me please, how could i not have lost faith in the devs? Look at what they are doing! Just look at what they did with the RN BB line! Its almost as if they don't play their own game (they probably don't).

 

And Judging by the posts on this forum, i am by far not the only one who no longer finds any enjoyment in the current meta. 

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5 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I wonder why your experiences are that different from mine.

well they are dominated by BB and DD players. having half  a team of DDS or half a team of BBS makes for boring games  most of the time. 

 

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14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I have that too. Funnily, we have less BB today.

 

If only we did. You still see at least 5 every match.

 

Hell i have seen BBs spamming HE farming fires for the mission. They would rather spam HE with a BB then play a Cruiser. A god damn Bismarck spamming HE.

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25 minutes ago, SovietFury43 said:

Hell i have seen BBs spamming HE farming fires for the mission

had a yamato on ocean today. he was only spotted at the start of the game in the end i got close in my zao and ofc he shot at me. instantly saw it and i see him shoot HE  i was like latest?cb=20141101223330

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8 hours ago, SovietFury43 said:

...

My Neptune thoroughly disagrees with you and so does my Budyony. Now that I think about it, my Fiji, Flint, Kutuzov do aswell, and if i had a Hindenburg it would too. BBs camp so far back these days that a good cruiser can kill all the enemy DDs on that flank and "end the game" before the BB makes an impact.

 

Balance is not exactly working well, but that is mostly due to the 5 BB meta creating so much crossfire that only DDs dare advance towards the caps. Any other ship is at risk of getting permaspoted by DDs and blow up. This is actually a symptom of individual player skill rising while teamplay is not.

 

Cruisers up to tier 4 are powerful, BBs are terrible, dds are Gods.

Cruisers tier 5-8 are often painful (especially tier 8 due to MM and shitty ships) while BBs gets good, DDs are shitty.

Every CA and BB tier 9 silver is less bad than tier 8 but not good while DDs are Gods again

Tier X is fairly balanced (CAs can and will farm BBs if there is no crossfire, DDs rely on lucky torps and fighting DDs)

CVs are just a mess (and getting worse since Saipan, Kaga and now Big E and GZ)

Also

- Gold ships OP compared to silver

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Just had the most fun match in a very long time. 3 BBs, 4 DDs and the rest Cruisers. It was dynamic, it was intense, it was FUN! The DDs scouted and screened, the BBs led the pushes and we Cruisers went in support of the BBs, it was glorious!

 

Reminded me of the good old beta days. That is what this game could be! What it should be!

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

D0I9uSr.jpg

 

:Smile_trollface:

MM always finds the optimal solution to troll you.

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There are indeed a bit less BBs in games today (I had a game with only 1 BB per side :cap_wander_2:) due to the torp mission I guess. But I'm definately seeing more and more one sided landslide games lately :Smile_sad:

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10 hours ago, SovietFury43 said:

Edit: Here is an example of what matches look like now:

Three cruisers - that´s lame, buddy :Smile-_tongue:. Yesterday i had a game where i was the only cruiser (C Martel) on my team, enemy had a Atago. Six battleships per side and my BBs ran away, behind their spawn :fish_palm:. Dunno how it ended, got spotted and sniped :fish_boom:

 

 

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