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BarthalomewKuma

Mission impossible ... aka "having fun"

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Ok ... so I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who is thinking following :

 

GAMES END WAY TOO FAST

 

Now let's speak about reasons why it happens and implications of this issue (actually I dare to say one of biggest issues).

 

I'm not bad player, wow stats often state that i play some ships even super unicum at times. I would say not best , but decent. This is important for following.

 

It's borderline impossible recently to get any decent game numbers even if rush with blood in eyes to cap looking for blood and damage of course. Really it is. Either way one teams steamrolls another in no time, or opposite aka other one steamrolls former.

I lost count where "won" games were actually lost on end game screen - what i mean by negative credits and pitiful xp. And I do run premium ! (speaking about t9/t10 games of course)

And no there was nothing that could be done, I was basically rushing opponents with speed boost to thier cap , but numbers were going up mercilessly and ... yeah we "won". 

 

So what actually means winning in this game ? Because for me if i won game that lasted 7 minutes, where we won because enemy team managed to withdraw from all caps and hidden behind distant island - I HARDLY count this as victory - they literally deny any possiblity to make any nice damage = credit gain. This problem is especially massive on higher ranks.

 

As it is in last 21 days where i was playing rather hardcore i admit - I scored average damage 81 170 among all ships including t6/t7 not only t10. So result is decent.

 

BUT still I yolo 24/7 without any care for safety because if i stand back and we lose/win by one team running to other side - I will have low damage number.

 

It's really disgusting how basically we lose 90% of games in terms of fun and there are like only 10% games with even fight, long lasting matches with really intense finish.

 

But I'm not here to cry - we all know pain of games ending 24/7 before they really started !!

 

So here is my suggestion , I would call it solution.

 

Even if one teams manages to "win" by points, capping etc - the game should still go on for at least 2-3 minutes more. Victory is secured regardless what happens next - but we can at least ... you know shoot the ships !! I'm not asking for god knows what.

 

All I ask is opportunity to point my guns/torps to my enemy and actually have a fight.

 

This rule would work every time game "finishes" before let's say 13 minute mark. 

 

Please consider support for this idea - as nothing really pisses of more than 7 minute game where both teams are almost intact with few casualaties , but one didn't bother taking any caps ...

 

That solution is win / win - even for "losing" team - at least they can make some money/xp by fighting.

 

And for god sake game ending rule when one team gets 0 points ... must end. 

 

After all we want is to wreck some hulls of our opponents. Right now it's not really doable ... game ends with shells in air very early, very often ...

 

Thanks for your attention. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one thinking that games basically end before they really start !

 

 

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Since when are we supposed to experience anything similar or close to "fun" in WG products? For some unknown reason, i stick with WG stuff since 2010 (WoT closed beta), and if i learned one thing, then it is the fact that any new content, any change and any mechanic, although claimed to feel "more rewarding" or "more satisfying" are only good for one thing: make you upset, make you feel screwed, make you feel cheated. The majority of those emotions basically result out of an overdose of RNG elements/bad luck, may it be matchmaking, teamplay, or the way your shells/torpedoes/bombs act, but non RNG-mechanic influenced factors like player behaviour or bad map design and bad design/balancing add to it aswell.

 

I get your point, but by now, you should be used to this, don´t you?

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30 minutes ago, Vaderan said:

Since when are we supposed to experience anything similar or close to "fun" in WG products? For some unknown reason, i stick with WG stuff since 2010 (WoT closed beta), and if i learned one thing, then it is the fact that any new content, any change and any mechanic, although claimed to feel "more rewarding" or "more satisfying" are only good for one thing: make you upset, make you feel screwed, make you feel cheated. The majority of those emotions basically result out of an overdose of RNG elements/bad luck, may it be matchmaking, teamplay, or the way your shells/torpedoes/bombs act, but non RNG-mechanic influenced factors like player behaviour or bad map design and bad design/balancing add to it aswell.

 

I get your point, but by now, you should be used to this, don´t you?

Wow man ... sadly I agree.

 

Apparently it's all made so you buy even more "premium" , if premium account is not enough get premium camo for t10 ship too - then maybe you won't lose money for just playing damn game :).

 

Games ending fast result in low cash income unless missouri etc (which i do have)  =  no money , get premium and so. 

 

So maybe my entire idea is bound to be doomed :(.

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40 minutes ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

Apparently it's all made so you buy even more "premium" (...)

It is designed so you played mid tiers in-between high tier battles. Or, if you don't want to, you can always get Premium Camo and Premium Account. Bot are not required to be able to afford T10 battles.

 

Games being too short are problematic, I agree, but there is no way to avoid them. And before someone comes up with 'skill based MM', let me say I've been on 45%WR average teams that ROFLstomped 55%WR average teams, so there goes your skill based MM...

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3 hours ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

Ok ... so I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who is thinking following :

 

GAMES END WAY TOO FAST

 

Now let's speak about reasons why it happens and implications of this issue (actually I dare to say one of biggest issues).

 

I'm not bad player, wow stats often state that i play some ships even super unicum at times. I would say not best , but decent. This is important for following.

 

It's borderline impossible recently to get any decent game numbers even if rush with blood in eyes to cap looking for blood and damage of course. Really it is. Either way one teams steamrolls another in no time, or opposite aka other one steamrolls former.

I lost count where "won" games were actually lost on end game screen - what i mean by negative credits and pitiful xp. And I do run premium ! (speaking about t9/t10 games of course)

And no there was nothing that could be done, I was basically rushing opponents with speed boost to thier cap , but numbers were going up mercilessly and ... yeah we "won". 

 

So what actually means winning in this game ? Because for me if i won game that lasted 7 minutes, where we won because enemy team managed to withdraw from all caps and hidden behind distant island - I HARDLY count this as victory - they literally deny any possiblity to make any nice damage = credit gain. This problem is especially massive on higher ranks.

 

As it is in last 21 days where i was playing rather hardcore i admit - I scored average damage 81 170 among all ships including t6/t7 not only t10. So result is decent.

 

BUT still I yolo 24/7 without any care for safety because if i stand back and we lose/win by one team running to other side - I will have low damage number.

 

It's really disgusting how basically we lose 90% of games in terms of fun and there are like only 10% games with even fight, long lasting matches with really intense finish.

 

But I'm not here to cry - we all know pain of games ending 24/7 before they really started !!

 

So here is my suggestion , I would call it solution.

 

Even if one teams manages to "win" by points, capping etc - the game should still go on for at least 2-3 minutes more. Victory is secured regardless what happens next - but we can at least ... you know shoot the ships !! I'm not asking for god knows what.

 

All I ask is opportunity to point my guns/torps to my enemy and actually have a fight.

 

This rule would work every time game "finishes" before let's say 13 minute mark. 

 

Please consider support for this idea - as nothing really pisses of more than 7 minute game where both teams are almost intact with few casualaties , but one didn't bother taking any caps ...

 

That solution is win / win - even for "losing" team - at least they can make some money/xp by fighting.

 

And for god sake game ending rule when one team gets 0 points ... must end. 

 

After all we want is to wreck some hulls of our opponents. Right now it's not really doable ... game ends with shells in air very early, very often ...

 

Thanks for your attention. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one thinking that games basically end before they really start !

 

 

If you are finishing too soon have you tried Viagra? :)

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22 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

awfully tough to get those pills in the USB port...

 

Aren't they supposed to be a suppository? :Smile_ohmy:

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6 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

 

Aren't they supposed to be a suppository? :Smile_ohmy:

No need to use the fancy words. Just say that they are ment to be applied "annually". Love the word play in english.

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14 hours ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

.......

 

I agree with you it happen too often.

the team who flee camping back doing nothing but snipe deserve to be punished by having their ship and capitan busy in game for longer time

It's strange anyway the freqency of that i wonder about which may be the cause i play often in cv and i can say that the reason don't seems to be the lack of spotting it's more that one team from start is shy to get closer to key zone leaving the other free to get them

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What I actually find representative in your comment is the roflstomps at top tiers, just cause people plays with no idea however about strategy and when to retreat or push in any situation.

Of course there are times where tou fck it up so hard that there is no way of retreatment and putting yourself in a safe situation, therefore you die, but most players have no situation awareness so that happens most often than not.

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I talked my team into holding fire and let the enemy cap one cap yesterday. When they reached 70 points we killed one guy. Then we waited until they got 70 points again and killed another. 

Thats i how you keep the games going longer. 

A bit sad that you have to organize the team to not farm the potatoes, but it is what it is. 

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WG are of a particular preference for more swift games, i.e. higher game turnover. Longer games will in fact slow down their in and out game economy. RPF was one particular change that did away with more protracted gameplay and brought about a swifter end to enemy vessels who preferred more strategic gameplay over brawling. They need us to use our dubloons, all our flags and camo and tier up faster. I presume longer gameplay also renders the game boring to the familiar player types represented by the following statements: 'I don't care about stats', 'only play for fun' or 'it's just a game'. These guys (and girls) will leave the game before long so it's in WG's interest to make the thrill as quick and flashy as possible to appease the lesser able of our WoWs kin. Remember, WG will always always always push it's own agenda first, and offer justification after the fact. Very little is done to please players unless it in some way benefits WG in the short or long term. This is my most humble opinion of their motives and I'm not being overly subjective here either.

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Fun was killed years ago in video games
It is the thing that we are not allowed to have anymore

it was killed in the name of W/R
Statistics
K/D ratio's
and the colours Grey and Brown

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2 hours ago, JaiFoh said:

Fun was killed years ago in video games
It is the thing that we are not allowed to have anymore

it was killed in the name of W/R
Statistics
K/D ratio's
and the colours Grey and Brown

While I agree with you, fun was also killed when games became so wincentric in terms of overall team performance offering rewards over individual performance, just like in this game. And I use the word 'team' as loosely as possible.

 

We have a matchmaker than randomly assigns players to teams (I have no issue with this at all), and then to advance at a reasonable pace in this game you need to win battles. Winning as you know offers greater credit and xp rewards, makes the gruelling grind easier, and affects all those things you mention too. But the winning! This is my issue.

 

If teams are randomly assigned, and I am assuming most people play random battles, then why is it that even if we ourselves play very well we still suffer the fate of the team overall? So we get punished for reasons beyond our own. This in itself creates a lot of friction between players, and then what happens is all those things you mention become even more apparent, since they're tools we use to judge and prejudice others. Add perceived unfairness and imbalance to the gameplay mechanic and you then start getting anger, frustration, prejudice, racism, hatefulness, anxiety, over-competitiveness, insulting, rudeness, profanity, and so on. This is all a result of WG's own outdated recipe for an even more outdated system of reward which favours team effort in a randomly assigned team. Clan wars and team battles are totally different. Yes, one could argue that people have this 'bad behaviour' inside them already, but WG are certainly doing their part to nurture than part of human nature. It's ironic, because WG then have to police something they themselves have created.

 

There is no issue with winning / losing, but punishing people for something they're not guilty off is an outdated and completely ineffective system, and will hardly ever favour a more peaceful gaming atmosphere. If WG included a system which rewarded individual performance more over team effort it would go a long way to restoring a little harmony here and there. And of course the one stat that is possibly to blame for the most prejudice, i.e. WR. PS. Have a look through the forums and see how many post have been, or are, about losses and noobs, bbabies, etc etc etc. All, when you look at it deeply enough, points to their reward system.

 

Unless of course WG are in league with the anti-christ and his minions. If so, they should just carry on as normal because their ultimate goal is then chaos and human suffering. At this they will and are succeeding :Smile-_tongue:.

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Games don't end too quickly because the game isn't fair or balanced, games end too quickly because people are ****ing stupid.

I just had a division of slow USN BBs tell everyone to rush C on Fault Lines. You know, the cap that places you in a corridor completely isolates you from the rest of the map for 10 minutes? Half of the team went.
Obvious result was obvious: they failed, got stuck, and could neither advance nor retreat. 3 enemy ships completely blocked them.

The match lasted 7 minutes.
When confronted, they just called me a keyboard warrior and all reported me.


There's your problem.
It's not the game, it's the declining player skill.
People who thinks an isolated corridor on the edge of the map is an appropriate spot for the slowest ships in the game, and report anyone who tells them that going there is stupid.

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Don't know much but I know this....Player skill has declined so much that even singlehandedly killing 5 ships on your own doesn't ensure s***.  I have seen people, even whole div's throw easy victory's into a defeat by doing stuff that begs belief.

 

Team Work in ransoms has nearly completely been snuffed out. God that sounds negative but there you go.

 

I have come to Peace with it.  I only enjoy div and clan battles at the moment. :cap_tea:

 

5 dead ships in my Kaga yesterday and....We lost. If people don't wanna cap and just camp their is little you can do about it. One out of a lot of examples anyone of us in here could give. 

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1 hour ago, Shaka_D said:

 

Unless of course WG are in league with the anti-christ and his minions. If so, they should just carry on as normal because their ultimate goal is then chaos and human suffering. At this they will and are succeeding :Smile-_tongue:.

What EA?

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4 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

It's not the game, it's the declining player skill.

 

Nah, that's wrong... player skill hasn't declined.

 

Player skill, like human intelligence, is a limited resource. So with more and more players - and more and more humans - the same amount of skill - or intelligence - has to be divided among more people.

But the total amount of skill - and intelligence - stays the same...

 

:Smile_hiding:

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It's more simple actually: learn players that they lose the same amount of silver, sunk or undamaged.  But also gain a lot more if they fight and take damage. And WG needs to stop reward the backline leechers. 

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About declining playerbase - well as you have tech trees and rhe veterans if a new tree are released comes downt so yo say or playing midtier for fun it is inevitable that the palyers skill is highly divided, that there are many new players which hopefully will learn is good in the long run.

 

One other thing - be careful to analyze a whole teams behaviour if the match are lost. I do not mean that you shelter yourself from blame, but let us say that I play a crusier or BB on a flank where our scouting DD get sunk, that and a few ships down may seriously hamper your options, it is no point in advance further in a cruiser and be the target of the shole enemy flank, so then a more defenisve play is needed, likewise who plays aggrisive scouting in a DD if noone supports? Sometimes it is difficult to know whether a certain action is deliberately choiced as not understanding the game ot forced to by the own teams failure.

 

If you have a few ships lost (and equal skill) you must have other advantage or some luck better sooner than later otherwise the snowball effect comes, But if there is a few bad palyers lost anfd the enemy bad players fail to deliver it is always winnable, I won a game today where the enemy were over 900 points, well ahead of us for the last 8 minutes or so but could not convert. It was our players understanding that by blocking the caps, not necessary win them , we bought ourselves time to deal with the surviving enemys, a great game from all perspectives, we managed to pass them the last 15 seconds, even if it was clear that we would pass if we did not get any more sinkings.

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While I do agree with your point, thus the thumbs up (due to lack of better expressions by WG), keep in mind that sometimes it is very unfun for the losing side to continue the game. They'll only be slaughtered, and it won't feel good getting farmed for someone else's damage numbers.

It may also encourage unsportly behaviour such as running from danger, but coming back in to farm damage after the "noob teammates who lost the game and deserved to die" took the brunt of the slaughtering.

 

The current game meta encourages at least the minimal amount of participation and being in danger, and that's WG's design philosophy as well, lowering ship ranges, purposeful map design and forced objectives, etc. It is not fun, but it works to a minimal extent.

And I doubt WG will readily abandon it anytime soon. Otherwise they'd just give us a "team deathmatch" mode that is not measured via points at all. They probably think it will expose the lack of substance in this game, and how gameplay is hanging by a thread.

 

I once had a solution too. It was called "removing synchronized display of enemy HP bars upon target acquisition via spotting", in other words, you can only see the HP bars of your teammates, and enemy HP bars can only be revealed through in-depth scouting, possibly via new game mechanics. However it was too big of a change to be considered seriously and reasonable, possibly necessitating many more supplementary changes as well, so I never pressed it.

 

On 2/16/2018 at 12:00 AM, BarthalomewKuma said:

That solution is win / win - even for "losing" team - at least they can make some money/xp by fighting.

 

And for god sake game ending rule when one team gets 0 points ... must end. 

 

After all we want is to wreck some hulls of our opponents. Right now it's not really doable ... game ends with shells in air very early, very often ...

 

Thanks for your attention. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one thinking that games basically end before they really start !

P.S. I really agree with the point that sometimes games should just be about enjoyable brawling fun, and heaven forbid a game "end" before it actually ends. 

But the core of the argument still goes back to the design of the progression system of WG, the exp/credit grind, which is responsible for the majority of our problems (for instance the warped and disfigured in-game behaviours borne from greed and selfishness). You yourself also touched upon this point in the first quoted sentence. 

However, it is unlikely WG will change it soon. They probably believe it (the current system) to be both fun and profitable. So unless you can bring up arguments at that level of logic, to show them there are alternatives, anything we say will be mute and but humouring ourselves here on forums.

 

Just waiting for the Carrier rework. With high expectations.

Edited by KarmaQU_EU
bad grammer. need coffee. still bad grammer. bale out.
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I proposed it elsewhere already and I'd like to propose it again: cut the player base for random battles in two segments. A combination of win rate and amount of battles played should be ok. Let players below (let's say) 51% WR be protected from better or more lucky players and vice versa. Have players play at least, well, 700 battles to be allowed in the +51% segment.

While it might not solve all problems and it might not be equally fair for all players, I think it would increase the average "fun and engaging" level per battle.

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