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porto72

another suggestion for cv-play

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Please introduce limited fuel capacity for the planes...

 

  • CA/CL and BB planes only have limited flighttimes
  • CV planes are able to fly for ever, the player abuse this feature for scouting and to keep dds open
  • if you want to keep ships open you could introduce a new class of reconnaissance planes with bigger internal fueltanks
  • you could differentiate the planes by having bigger or smaller fuel tanks (the Zero fighter was known for its long range qualities)
  • you could improve the flight range for example by a new captain skill (drop tanks)
  • you could introduce patrolzones for fighterplanes to keep them for a longer time in the air and to block incoming attacks, they should attack the biggest/nearest threat automatically
  • introduce an escort function for fighters, they should attack the biggest/nearest threat automatically
  • and get rid of the strafing [edited], thats totaly unrealistic and widens the already big skillgap between good and not so good cv players
  • instead implement such things like a fighter penalty after attacking low flying torpedobombers, it takes a lot of time to win height again to attack high flying diverbombers (a tactic used during the battle of midway), so the player is forced to choose his air to air target wisely (first attack the dive bomber than attack the torpedo bomber)
  • Change strafing to attack ground targets (little damage to dds and bbs, or to decimate the aa-capabilities)

 

it would open a new field of Options in my opinion

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I could only immagine the shitstorm in chat when you have to refuel fighters and an enemy attack is coming, about the altitude gap i think is something wg could consider for the rework ,instead the automatic things you suggest and the removing of strafe no , it's not good to take away skill from the game

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Floatplanes already have limited flight time. It's called the uptime of the consumable.

Fuel limits would make CV play hilariously restrictive. Also would make fighters completely worthless.

Strafe was introduced so fighters can be useful as before they were so worthless against massed strikes it's not even funny. Deal with it.

Using fighters against ships would be a horrible waste of your fighters. It'd be nothing but a noob trap. Stop asking for this ridiculous feature.

 

[SPECULATION]

Fighters already suffer a penalty when getting "intercepted" from doing anything else. I can't actually prove it, but when I click a fighter squad that's attacking one of my bombers, on the move or the like I am almost always winning that fight even if the squad is equal to mine.

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Steel Ocean had fuel for planes, that would work I guess. But I don't know about realism. I guess most planes can fly many hundred kilometers

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12 hours ago, porto72 said:

Please introduce limited fuel capacity for the planes...

 

  • introduce an escort function for fighters, they should attack the biggest/nearest threat automatically
  • and get rid of the strafing [edited], thats totaly unrealistic and widens the already big skillgap between good and not so good cv players

[...]

 

-Fighters can escort and automatically attack, when you rightclick on a ship or plane

-Strafing is realsitic, but it's a little bit different in reality. When planes attack ships or ground targets with MG and rockets, that's called strafing. They did that in WW2

 

here a video of strafing:

 

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5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Floatplanes already have limited flight time. It's called the uptime of the consumable.

Fuel limits would make CV play hilariously restrictive. Also would make fighters completely worthless.

Strafe was introduced so fighters can be useful as before they were so worthless against massed strikes it's not even funny. Deal with it.

Using fighters against ships would be a horrible waste of your fighters. It'd be nothing but a noob trap. Stop asking for this ridiculous feature.

 

[SPECULATION]

Fighters already suffer a penalty when getting "intercepted" from doing anything else. I can't actually prove it, but when I click a fighter squad that's attacking one of my bombers, on the move or the like I am almost always winning that fight even if the squad is equal to mine.

Why would be strafing against ships a waste of fighters? You can't generalize that idea as ridiculous, it depends on how you develop that idea. If you don't like that idea, then it's your opinion.

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55 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Why would be strafing against ships a waste of fighters?

 

Because unless the enemy CV has no more planes left your fighters have better things to do than to waste their numbers and ammo on a surface ship. Heck, even after the enemy CV has been dealt with you're much better off scouting with them.

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29 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Because unless the enemy CV has no more planes left your fighters have better things to do than to waste their numbers and ammo on a surface ship. Heck, even after the enemy CV has been dealt with you're much better off scouting with them.

If one strafing would destroy every ship in that line?

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5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If one strafing would destroy every ship in that line?

 

Ofc I'm assuming strafing ships will not be ridiculously broken as you're insinuating here. :D

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35 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Ofc I'm assuming strafing ships will not be ridiculously broken as you're insinuating here. :D

I exagerated, yes, but maybe if they would implement it, it could be a good option. And if you don't like it, you don't have to use it? :-|

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52 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I exagerated, yes, but maybe if they would implement it, it could be a good option. And if you don't like it, you don't have to use it? :-|

 

The problem is that unless it's super broken it will simply not be useful, but the average players will not know that. They will be more than happy to hand me air superiority by wasting their fighters.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

The problem is that unless it's super broken it will simply not be useful, but the average players will not know that. They will be more than happy to hand me air superiority by wasting their fighters.

When it's bad developed it would be bad. If it's useful developed, it will be useful... that's obvious.

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2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

When it's bad developed it would be bad. If it's useful developed, it will be useful... that's obvious.

 

Don't you get it yet? Strafing ships would literally have to instakill them or deal hilarious damage to be useful, which would be broken. Everything less than that is not worth wasting your fighters for.

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Don't you get it yet? Strafing ships would literally have to instakill them or deal hilarious damage to be useful, which would be broken. Everything less than that is not worth wasting your fighters for.

You don't get it. If a developer wishes to make something work like strafing on ships. He will be able to make it work. Also adding something new could mean to adjust others mechanics to make the new mechanic work.

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18 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You don't get it. If a developer wishes to make something work like strafing on ships. He will be able to make it work. Also adding something new could mean to adjust others mechanics to make the new mechanic work.

 

:Smile_facepalm:

That's not how game development works. You can usually tell at a glance what mechanics would be useful or what is required to make them useful. Fighters aren't meant to attack surface targets and will be in fact completely incapable of performing their original role after they've strafed a ship. Thus the damage potential must be ridiculously high to compensate as the moment you strafe a ship you'll be sure to lose air superiority, a huge trade off. That would make the mechanic broken, but anything less than that would make strafing ships completely worthless and a noob trap.

Alternatively you could make fighters immune to AA, but that's also incredibly stupid.

 

Either way the idea of giving fighters the ability to strafe ships would be horrible as all out.

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4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

:Smile_facepalm:

That's not how game development works. You can usually tell at a glance what mechanics would be useful or what is required to make them useful. Fighters aren't meant to attack surface targets and will be in fact completely incapable of performing their original role after they've strafed a ship. Thus the damage potential must be ridiculously high to compensate as the moment you strafe a ship you'll be sure to lose air superiority, a huge trade off. That would make the mechanic broken, but anything less than that would make strafing ships completely worthless and a noob trap.

 

Either way the idea of giving fighters the ability to strafe ships would be horrible as all out.

You always forget to add, "in my opinion". People could think that are facts. What do you mean fighters are not meant to strafe? You mean at the moment in the game? Because historically strafing is attacking ground targets. And not strafing Air targets. It's unrealistic, that you can't strafe ships :D

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1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You mean at the moment in the game?

 

Yes, because your fighters have better things to do than to waste themselves strafing surface targets and handing the other CV air superiority free of charge. There is no downtime for your fighters that allow you to strafe ships. If you leave your fighters unattended for too long you're doing something wrong. Even if they're just circling above your teammates that's time well spent because they're acting as an active deterrent to enemy strikes.

 

Giving the other CV air superiority for free being bad is just "my opinion"? Are you serious?

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yes, because your fighters have better things to do than to waste themselves strafing surface targets and handing the other CV air superiority free of charge. There is no downtime for your fighters that allow you to strafe ships. If you leave your fighters unattended for too long you're doing something wrong. Even if they're just circling above your teammates that's time well spent because they're acting as an active deterrent to enemy strikes.

 

Giving the other CV air superiority for free being bad is just "my opinion"? Are you serious?

For free? Never said that. In trade of other possibilties. It's your opinion, that more possibilities are bad. How you use your option, is your choice. Also CV needs a lot reworks. But I guess you're the opinion that cv is fine, right?

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Just now, Pikkozoikum said:

For free? Never said that. In trade of other possibilties.

 

Really? What possibilities are there?

- lowered AA? Utterly worthless as you've done nothing but selfishly waste your fighters, giving the enemy a happy invitation to strike one of your teammates and possibly air control for the rest of the match.

- canceling out DFAA? Completely broken, DFAA while badly designed does the job it is meant to do. It is meant to prevent you from striking and shoot down scores of planes. Giving a CV the option to simply cancel it defeats the point of DFAA entirely.

- damage? As I stated previously it would need to do ludicrous amounts of damage to be even remotely viable, which in turn would make it broken.

 

Yeah, I don't see it.

 

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But I guess you're the opinion that cv is fine, right?

 

Because adding more mechanics that are either broken or noob traps will surely fix CV play. :Smile_facepalm:

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Really? What possibilities are there?

- lowered AA? Utterly worthless as you've done nothing but selfishly waste your fighters, giving the enemy a happy invitation to strike one of your teammates and possibly air control for the rest of the match.

- canceling out DFAA? Completely broken, DFAA while badly designed does the job it is meant to do. It is meant to prevent you from striking and shoot down scores of planes. Giving a CV the option to simply cancel it defeats the point of DFAA entirely.

- damage? As I stated previously it would need to do ludicrous amounts of damage to be even remotely viable, which in turn would make it broken.

 

Yeah, I don't see it.

 

 

Because adding more mechanics that are either broken or noob traps will surely fix CV play. :Smile_facepalm:

How about while they strafe the aa becomes suppressed, so they won't get much or no dmg? Btw that is the reason of strafing a ship. Suppressing the aa for the bomber. Or do you prefer to lose your bombers just to keep the air superiority?

 

Do some good suggestions. Would help way more

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3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

How about while they strafe the aa becomes suppressed, so they won't get much or no dmg?

 

See above.

Also if you're attacking a ship against which you're bound to lose lots of planes you're doing something wrong.

 

I did a good suggestion. It was "Don't do this."

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

See above.

Also if you're attacking a ship against which you're bound to lose lots of planes you're doing something wrong.

 

I did a good suggestion. It was "Don't do this."

With this possibility you won't lose any plane? That's the whole point of adding strafing, to have a chance against aa monsters and unfair matchmaking. In some games, there are only ships with good aa.

 

You start to annoy me. Only denying things without improving and having better ideas is a bad behavior and won't lead to any progress. CVs have issues and wargaming is not able to fix it yet. We don'T have any idea about their development of course. But if someone would have an idea how to fix the CV that they're also allowed in CB and stuff and everyone agrees. Then wargaming would maybe notice that. At least someone of the forum staff. So, if you're so smart: Present some good ideas and don't just deny. It's pretty easy to deny everything

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15 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

With this possibility you won't lose any plane? That's the whole point of adding strafing, to have a chance against aa monsters and unfair matchmaking. In some games, there are only ships with good aa.

 

You are still tying up a fighter which has far better uses. You're also bound to lose fighters on approach. Besides, do you even realize how hilariously broken it would be if you could just suppress a ship's AA almost to the point of nonexistence?

These so called "AA monsters" have a reason to exist. To deny you. This is not a free-for-all. This is a friggin' team game. In every class, including CVs, you're supposed to be reliant on your team. That means that in extreme situations you cannot attack anything without your team helping you. And it is fine this way because your inherent role is not to wipe out everything on your own, it is to spot which is an incredibly powerful ability in this game. You are supposed to support your team and be supported in return, not go off alone and do your own thing.

You're basically whining that you cannot attack and kill everything at your leisure, a behavior normally attributed to BBabies.

 

It's funny that you mention CBs, because a change such as this would present a more than legitimate reason to exclude CVs. You just shot yourself in the foot mate.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You are still tying up a fighter which has far better uses. You're also bound to lose fighters on approach. Besides, do you even realize how hilariously broken it would be if you could just suppress a ship's AA almost to the point of nonexistence?

These so called "AA monsters" have a reason to exist. To deny you. This is not a free-for-all. This is a friggin' team game. In every class, including CVs, you're supposed to be reliant on your team. That means that in extreme situations you cannot attack anything without your team helping you. And it is fine this way because your inherent role is not to wipe out everything on your own, it is to spot which is an incredibly powerful ability in this game. You are supposed to support your team and be supported in return, not go off alone and do your own thing.

You're basically whining that you cannot attack and kill everything at your leisure, a behavior normally attributed to BBabies.

 

It's funny that you mention CBs, because a change such as this would present a more than legitimate reason to exclude CVs. You just shot yourself in the foot mate.

You think adding strafing would be the solution of all issues? Do you think that I think that? You're not that smart. If you give the CV something against aa, you can also adjust around that. I told you, a developer can develop anything he wishes and make it work.

 

1. It's a bad gameplay, that there are matches, where enemies have zero good aa and a CV can do what he want. And in others games every snd ship has good aa and you can't do anything. It's a team game? Yes, but it's game. It should be fun. It's not fun for me, if I lose my planes everywhere. It's not fun, if bb's have absolutly no chance against planes. So it need an adjustment between these huge gap of op-aa and up-aa. There should be good and bad aa, but not op and up aa.

2. When you play a bb you need "skill" or lets say you can controll your ship to get good shots, and you can also try to avoid shots. A cv has no chance to avoid aa except staying on distance, but you can't fight such a ship. It's always present, not "skill" or "control" is needed for aa. So strafing would take out this op ships. But as I said in 1. you need to adjust something around that to make it work

3. You say you have to do way more other option which are more important? Scouting? Well scouting is a big issue. It destroys the fun of every destroyer, it's a really stupid mechanic. In Steel Ocean, a game similar to World of Warships, fighters and bombers are almost unable to scout. They have to be directly above the target. (or you use spotter planes, they can scout better). Also strafing against air targets is in my opinion pretty stupid. That makes the CV gaming more to a 1on1 and not to a team game. Guess some player like the 1on1, but I don't like that. There should be no strafing against planes.

4. In my opinion is the job ob the cv the striking. That's what they did in snd World War. If the fighter wasn't in dog fighting, they also attacked the ships. So even fighters are "striking" I would really like if the cv gameplay would be a little bit more like in Steel Ocean.

 

When I play a competitive game, I want have chances. But having a passive aura that just denies everything is the most stupid thing.

 

AA need adjustmenst, and the CV needs adjustment. Strafing is just one idea, which would give a cv chances against op-aa. To give possibilities. BUT that doesn't mean, that you can't adjust the aa to make it also better for aa-weak ships

 

Once I played with my T8 CV in a full T10 game with a lot aa ships. I did nothing the first 10 minutes until single ships appeared. The aa of those ships also prevent me from spotting. 10 mintues doing nothing is fun, right?

 

I'm still curious about your ideas to improve CV, otherwise I will drop this discussion. It's easy to deny an idea. Would be better to improve an idea. It's possible to do that step by step. When the real strafing would be added, what issues would appear - eliminate those issues or adjust them. If it's op, balance it.

 

I would love a thread of improving the gameplay of CV, where  people give ideas and improve those ideas until it results into something good. And not just like "No, it's stupid". That doesn't leads to progess. And after getting a good solution, someone could ping one of the forum staff

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