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wot_chikor

CV stats ( Hakuryu vs Miway ) in randoms

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Hi again guys . sorry for puting many of the CV topics butthis is going to be probably the last !

So , well  i got my Hakuryu  some 10 - 15  days ago i played it few times , but  after the new update came with the new emblems i decided to go for the hardest one for carriers , i have ofc to do an avrage of 130k dmg over 100 games palyed . and from here the story starts .

in my 20th game i noticed that i have been  seeing ONLY ( literaly only ) Midways in enemy teams so i decided to start gathering some stats on what i am facing in the enxt 80 games ( to complet the 100 battles required for the emblem )  and here is what i got .

1 ) in my first 20 games : enemy CVs / Midways = 20 / Hakuryu's = 0

2 ) from 20 th to 50th games : enemy CVs / Midways = 28 / Hakuryu's = 2 

3 ) from 50 th to 100 games : enemy CVs / Midways = 46 / Hakuryu's = 4 

 

from the 5

6Hakuryu's i ever met : 3 of them were good rivals / 2 of them carrier-snipe noobs / 1 of them the kind of CV that send 8 squads at once to a target with auto-bomb 

 

conclusion : 50% of people who play Hakuryu's are ret4rds / noobs 

reasons people suck / never play Hakuryu  : 1 ) the Hakuryu is just idiot-magnet 

                                                                             : 2 ) The Midway completly and utterly over-powered 

 

why midway is Op compared to Hakuryu : 1) if the Midway have 2 brain cells , there is 0 chanceyou win a fighter duel , imagine his fighters are so good that if you even exit strafe and leave them stuned for few secs , they are fast enoguht to catch your fighters .

2 ) not his fighters are just better , he has MORE of them .

3 ) both Haku and Midwayhave 12 torpedo-bombers , but the Midway deal mush mush more dmg per Hit .

4 ) while Haku's dive bomber are only good to set fires and do no dmg , Midway can use AP bombers to one shot german BBs or HE to oen shot Shimakazes and he has MORE of them .

 

I am going to end with one comment from youttube comment section where some guy said : "  Haku dominated for 2 years , pls dont ask for midway to be nerfed let it be Op for just 2 weeks ffs '

shot-18.01.30_19.21.42-0726.jpg

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I can't understand how WG could tell us months ago that 2x6 TB was broken on US CVs and give Midway back its 2 TB squads.

 

Wgen I first saw it, I thought WG would give Midway the 2x5 TB with the W pattern of the Enterprise, which seems much more balanced.

 

Anyway, most of the CV players  (good or bad) have switched from Hakuryu to Midway to abuse its OPness, as you can expect of any multiplater game. 

 

We can only hope that WG attempt to rework CV gameplay will work  ( I know, I'm a hopeless optimist) and that it will bring some better balance the 2 branches and the premiums ...

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2 minutes ago, NoirLotus said:

I can't understand how WG could tell us months ago that 2x6 TB was broken on US CVs and give Midway back its 2 TB squads.

 

Wgen I first saw it, I thought WG would give Midway the 2x5 TB with the W pattern of the Enterprise, which seems much more balanced.

 

Anyway, most of the CV players  (good or bad) have switched from Hakuryu to Midway to abuse its OPness, as you can expect of any multiplater game. 

 

We can only hope that WG attempt to rework CV gameplay will work  ( I know, I'm a hopeless optimist) and that it will bring some better balance the 2 branches and the premiums ...

i hope so too , its just sad how incompetent they are in eevn making a single line done properly

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I still play my hakuryuu over the midway because:

- a hate the huge service times in US carriers that i have nothing to do just to scratch my balls for 5 minutes before my next strike is ready

- i like the 6 squadrons against DDs, i find it much easier to crossdrop and incapacitate them

- haku has better AA and lower detection, lets say 1 out of 10 Midway games i die too soon because of these factors

 

but i agree the Midway is better right now, i just dont like to play it

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1 hour ago, wot_chikor said:

1) if the Midway have 2 brain cells , there is 0 chanceyou win a fighter duel , imagine his fighters are so good that if you even exit strafe and leave them stuned for few secs , they are fast enoguht to catch your fighters .

 

Air control is largely dependent on skill and not the ship. If you need to exit strafe in an unfavorable situation you've already done something wrong.

 

1 hour ago, wot_chikor said:

2 ) not his fighters are just better , he has MORE of them .

 

In the long run this matters little if you are able to maintain air control and trade favorably.

Or at least maintain air parity. If you cannot even do that, you're doing something wrong.

 

1 hour ago, wot_chikor said:

3 ) both Haku and Midwayhave 12 torpedo-bombers , but the Midway deal mush mush more dmg per Hit .

 

His TBs are much more squishy nowadays to the point where I can wipe them out in a Fletcher without having to spec full AA. You also have much faster turnaround times, so in a straight up damage race Haku wins.

 

1 hour ago, wot_chikor said:

4 ) while Haku's dive bomber are only good to set fires and do no dmg , Midway can use AP bombers to one shot german BBs or HE to oen shot Shimakazes and he has MORE of them .

 

If you haven't noticed AP bombs are worthless against anything but FdG/Bismarck/Tirpitz in terms of BBs. They can oneshot most T10 cruisers but those will usually wipe them out before they can drop anyway.

1000lb HE bombs hurt hard if they get lucky but they too have huge turnaround times and are excessively reliant on RNG.

 

As for your shiny little emblem, to say that I wasn't particularly impressed by your play every time I had to go up against you is an understatement.

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Hey do those emblems disappear if you happen to go below their requirements after you've already acquired them? Or are they permanent?

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

As for your shiny little emblem, to say that I wasn't particularly impressed by your play every time I had to go up against you is an understatement.

1) you can find yourself trying to say that midway fighters are as good as haku's , if you believe that even slightly , then thats a proof that you are either trolling or you are full of sh1t  and i am not going to say more on this .

2) same thing , you know that midway fighters are completly better but you just argue for the sake of argue , maybe you enjoy that , i notice it in your previous comments in my other topics 

3)alright i can agree with you to some degree .

4) you can say what you want , but you cant deny that Midwy's dive bombers are better than Haku's in every situation almost .

 

 

and i am not proud of this emblem as you think , i am an avrage cv player and i could get it so i dont consider it a challange for people like you .

and when you meet me in the games i dont mind losing to you , remember 2 months ago i was asking people for advice how to play cv in this forum 

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7 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Hey do those emblems disappear if you happen to go below their requirements after you've already acquired them? Or are they permanent?

perma ^^

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Just now, wot_chikor said:

perma ^^

ty

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8 minutes ago, wot_chikor said:

you can find yourself trying to say that midway fighters are as good as haku's

 

Did you even read? I'm not saying Midway doesn't have the advantage, which she does (and imo rightfully so considering Haku gets the advantage in strike capability), but all the advantages in the world are for naught if your decision making skills and your fighter micro are on point. If you find yourself constantly losing air superiority then the fault lies with you, not the Midway.

 

8 minutes ago, wot_chikor said:

you can say what you want , but you cant deny that Midwy's dive bombers are better than Haku's in every situation almost

 

Your point is? They still take ages to service, thus higher alpha is more than justified.

IJN DBs are also much more reliable.

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2 hours ago, NoirLotus said:

I can't understand how WG could tell us months ago that 2x6 TB was broken on US CVs and give Midway back its 2 TB squads.

 

Wgen I first saw it, I thought WG would give Midway the 2x5 TB with the W pattern of the Enterprise, which seems much more balanced.

 

Anyway, most of the CV players  (good or bad) have switched from Hakuryu to Midway to abuse its OPness, as you can expect of any multiplater game. 

 

We can only hope that WG attempt to rework CV gameplay will work  ( I know, I'm a hopeless optimist) and that it will bring some better balance the 2 branches and the premiums ...

So after 2 year where Midway way worst ahip in game and Haku dominted him hard it was time to buff midway. He has t8 TB. He will get t9 fighters. And after that it is just ltp issue. 

 

Haku still has stronger TBs. 3 bomb squad for spot or dot and 2 fighters. 

 

It can not win now pushing 1 button as before but still it is very strong ship. 

 

Mostly it is ltp issue from Haku side. 

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@wot_chikor I really recommend you to think what you are doing with your fighters. You shouldn't pick fair fights against Midway, you'll lose. The way to counter Midway (as i have seen some Hakuryu players successfully pulling this off against me) is NOT to engage him in fighter duels. You keep your fighters close to your team, forcing HIM to enter your allied ships' AA bubble if he wants to attack. And when he does, he is gonna lose his fighters. That's when you attack enemy surface ships with all your might. Then, for the later stages of the battle, you can go for exchanging some fighters if you know that he has a few left.

 

Another good trick you can use is to hide your bombers. Don't let him see them. If he can't see them, he can't position his fighters accordingly. There has to be a gap in the map where you can send your planes and pull of successful strikes, and searching for them is your job. You should be looking at the minimap more than you look at your screen. It tells you everything about the enemy team (yes, minimap is OP)

 

There are many other tricks that you can use against Midway, or any other CV. Some players that you face are already using them against you. Watch the enemy CV. Looks what he is doing. Learn from your enemy. I have learned 90% of what i know today from my enemies.

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It's interesting to know it's not my imagination. I only meet Midways when I play in my Hakuryu (my only tier X ship).

However... Midway players do find other Midways out there?? I mean, perhaps it's some weird mm rule that a Haku would fight Midways by default.

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That all sounds good and easy.

But you have to be alot better than a Midway player if you want to win against him.

 

I found the situation on t9 fairer, cause the Essex has weaker fighters. Lets see how it turns out if the Midway get her t9 fighters.

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Hardly.

See, if you understand the basics of CV play then the least you can do against an equally skilled or even better CV player is to achieve air parity by using your fighters as the defensive tool they were meant to be.

In an air parity scenario scouting information wins, as a Haku you have the freedom to use your DBs as your primary scouts without compromising air cover or strike capability because for the most part the damage potential of your DBs is negligible.

Midway on the other hand doesn't really want to do that because USN DBs are an integral part of your strike capability. You already have to deal with T8 TBs being prone to get wiped even by a head on strafe and ludicrous service times, the last thing you want to do is to send your DBs on scouting runs only to discover that a potential target has turned up. If you do however give up your DBs to scout then it will depend on how often a target opens up for either of you, with Haku being in a better position to exploit potential openings by virtue of having T10 TBs.

So yeah, Haku actually maintains a pretty good advantage if you don't senselessly waste your fighters.

Ofc success will also be largely dependent on your team, but hey, that's just the nature of this game.

 

I just unlocked the Midway. Her only upsides are her ludicrous reserves and fighters. Her TBs are still far too flimsy, her DBs still too reliant on RNG and ofc she has the stupidly long USN service times, only these are exacerbated even further by having one more squad to service and launch.

To say I'm not impressed so far is an understatement as I found myself wishing numerous times to be a Haku. I initially had nothing against bumping down her fighters from T10 to T9, but now I wonder what Midway has left to give if you do so.

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Hardly.

See, if you understand the basics of CV play then the least you can do against an equally skilled or even better CV player is to achieve air parity by using your fighters as the defensive tool they were meant to be.

In an air parity scenario scouting information wins, as a Haku you have the freedom to use your DBs as your primary scouts without compromising air cover or strike capability because for the most part the damage potential of your DBs is negligible.

Midway on the other hand doesn't really want to do that because USN DBs are an integral part of your strike capability. You already have to deal with T8 TBs being prone to get wiped even by a head on strafe and ludicrous service times, the last thing you want to do is to send your DBs on scouting runs only to discover that a potential target has turned up. If you do however give up your DBs to scout then it will depend on how often a target opens up for either of you, with Haku being in a better position to exploit potential openings by virtue of having T10 TBs.

So yeah, Haku actually maintains a pretty good advantage if you don't senselessly waste your fighters.

Ofc success will also be largely dependent on your team, but hey, that's just the nature of this game.

 

I just unlocked the Midway. Her only upsides are her ludicrous reserves and fighters. Her TBs are still far too flimsy, her DBs still too reliant on RNG and ofc she has the stupidly long USN service times, only these are exacerbated even further by having one more squad to service and launch.

To say I'm not impressed so far is an understatement as I found myself wishing numerous times to be a Haku. I initially had nothing against bumping down her fighters from T10 to T9, but now I wonder what Midway has left to give if you do so.

thanks for the tiips man , i do some of them myself   .

but the point of my post is not learn how to deal with  a superior oponent , its to make my ship as good as his , then i will deal with him without tricks , i would not need tricks then .

a good tctic i used is to trade plnaes , i click on his fighters with mine , they die ofc but it gives me the time to do my full stike , then his fighters will kill some / all my returning bombers .

its a trde but not a fair one , because at the end , he has 36% more planes then me .

there is no other way you can put it , its completly retarded , i would not at all be bothered if midway had just better fighters / better DBs / TBs . but is has also 36% MORE OF THEM ....

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11 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

It's interesting to know it's not my imagination. I only meet Midways when I play in my Hakuryu (my only tier X ship).

However... Midway players do find other Midways out there?? I mean, perhaps it's some weird mm rule that a Haku would fight Midways by default.

because there is only midways , there is no hakuryus left , noone plays them , and as i said in my post ,  in a 100 game i met 94 midways and 6 hakuryu .

 

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Hardly.

See, if you understand the basics of CV play then the least you can do against an equally skilled or even better CV player is to achieve air parity by using your fighters as the defensive tool they were meant to be.

In an air parity scenario scouting information wins, as a Haku you have the freedom to use your DBs as your primary scouts without compromising air cover or strike capability because for the most part the damage potential of your DBs is negligible.

Midway on the other hand doesn't really want to do that because USN DBs are an integral part of your strike capability. You already have to deal with T8 TBs being prone to get wiped even by a head on strafe and ludicrous service times, the last thing you want to do is to send your DBs on scouting runs only to discover that a potential target has turned up. If you do however give up your DBs to scout then it will depend on how often a target opens up for either of you, with Haku being in a better position to exploit potential openings by virtue of having T10 TBs.

So yeah, Haku actually maintains a pretty good advantage if you don't senselessly waste your fighters.

Ofc success will also be largely dependent on your team, but hey, that's just the nature of this game.

 

I just unlocked the Midway. Her only upsides are her ludicrous reserves and fighters. Her TBs are still far too flimsy, her DBs still too reliant on RNG and ofc she has the stupidly long USN service times, only these are exacerbated even further by having one more squad to service and launch.

To say I'm not impressed so far is an understatement as I found myself wishing numerous times to be a Haku. I initially had nothing against bumping down her fighters from T10 to T9, but now I wonder what Midway has left to give if you do so.

then tell me , if haku is as good as midway as yo uare saying , why 94 / 100 gmaes played in cvs are in midays  , yoiu cant anwser that , the only anwser is that midway is Op and players are abusing that , i watched people lie flamu  and fara , they also think midway is OP . so i am not the only one .flamu / fara / 94% of cv players in random thinks the same .

and pls , did you run out of things to say about haku apart from her superior spotting capabilities ? is that the only thing she does better than midway ? i agree with you in this .

do you think after 100 consecutive games in hakuryu i didnt try every single trick in the book to deal with midways ? man there is NO way you can win a fighter duel , and if you cant win a fighter duel , you cant bomb properly

also the only time i win fighter duels is when the midway is a noob , i click on his fighters in minotaur's AA  range , or i fight with 2 squads vs one .

there is no other you can put it , you like it or you dont midawy is unbalanced AF at its current stats and it WILL not stay like this as far as i am conserned ! 

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3 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

yoiu cant anwser that

 

Yes I can.

Midway is easier to play than Haku, having larger reserves and less squads. Auto dropping with USN DBs tends to give better results than with IJN ones, needing less micromanagement. Longer service times also means she has more downtime while Haku is a lot more frantic in playstyle. Midway is far more noob-friendly and forgiving to play than Haku will ever be despite her T8 TBs.

She also has novelty on her side as she's "new and shiny". And ofc prominent players saying she's overpowered, so everyone has got to have her.

 

3 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

a good tctic i used is to trade plnaes , i click on his fighters with mine , they die ofc but it gives me the time to do my full stike , then his fighters will kill some / all my returning bombers .

 

See, this is precisely what you do NOT want to do. It's NOT a good tactic, it's a horrible waste of both your strike craft and fighters no matter how much damage you do. You want to wipe out all of his fighters with minimal losses to your own, not trade one for one.

(also I'm pretty sure you wanted to quote Fubucky and not me)

 

3 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

man there is NO way you can win a fighter duel

 

If I was able to not only win against some of the best CV players (read: those that participate and go deep in tournaments) playing their AS Midway in a division but completely wipe them out in my Haku, you can win against a 2/2/2 Midway. The point is to wait for an opening, not allowing for any of your planes to get wiped by enemy fighters.

 

Midway gets an edge in air control and larger reserves.

Haku gets much better strike potential and scouting capability.

I'd say that's a fair trade.

 

@Systergummi Aww, cute. You're probably thinking I just want to preserve how "op" Midway is for my own advantage, eh? Despite, you know, that I've never even played a single game in a Midway before today and would routinely wipe them out in my Haku. And still do.

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Imo Midway is just easier and more relaxing to play for weekend- CV-players like me. And thus the results are better. :Smile-_tongue:

 

Still those top tier micromanagement guys will probably perform better in Haku.

 

 

 

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On 31-1-2018 at 11:39 AM, El2aZeR said:

Auto dropping with USN DBs tends to give better results than with IJN ones, needing less micromanagement.

 

Last night I actually met two Midway players who were auto-dropping :Smile_facepalm:

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