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[Guidance] Khabarovsk or Grozovoi?

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Looking at the recent forum posts, it is probably not a good time to admit I am a fairly new player (7 Months & 20 Random Battles) but I will not be a player that jumps Tiers by buying a high tier premium, I intend to grind my way to the top of each tier, and learn along the way, and that is why I am in need of some advice.

 

I have just completed my grind for the T6 Gnevny  and pretty soon I will be at the point where I have to choose a path that will lead me to the Khabarovsk or Grozovoi.

 

I love the Russian DD's because they can be fast and have great guns, I also support my team in any way possible to achieve a win, be it capping at the right time, spotting, laying smoke for assisting cruisers, as I did in 2 very successful games today.

 

So I need guidance for my future in these fantastic DD's, at T8, do I take the Kiev to get to the Khabarovsk, or do I take the Ognevoi to get the Grozovoi?

 

Advice & guidance from players that own one or both of these ships will be gratefully appreciated.

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they're completely different ships and lines.

Kiev -> Tashkent -> Khaba is fairly uniform - shoot&scoot gunboats that stay near their maximum range and shell anything that comes within range. They are anything but conventional destroyers - Tashkent and Khaba can even forego their smoke to grab a heal. Really fun playstyle, but not what you might expect from DDs - and they're hilariously bad at "traditional" DD things like torping and capping because of their nonexistent concealment.

 

Ognevoi and Grozovoi are closer to your normal DD - decent concealment, decent if a bit underwhelming torps, and Defensive AA as a bonus. Ognevoi is a bit more on the torping side with sorta weak guns, while Grozo gets pretty sub-par torps for T10, but the guns are pure murder at non-knifefighting ranges because of their amazing ballistics. Udaloi at T9 is a bit of an odd duck in the progression, having similarly bad concealment to the other line and thus being sorta poor at contesting caps and torping, but the sheer gun power more than makes up for that :)

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If you want a DD then Khaba is definitely not the destination you want to be heading for. It's the least DD of all the DDs. No support capabilities at all, a pure lone wolf. A strong ship no doubt, but definitely not something for support.

 

I like the Grozovoi a lot. The guns are really comfortable to use and still powerful. Won't be able to push out quite the DPM of a Gearing, but the guns are on the other hand more reliable with great ballistics.

The ability for DefAA is also nice both for yourself and nearby ships. The torpedoes are wimpy (14.6k dmg :Smile_sceptic:) but it's not a ship you play for the torpedoes and they are more than enough to punish smoke campers and get a nice opportunistic spread on a bigger ship.

It's a bit clumsy in the turn, but that shouldn't be unfamiliar to a RU DD player. It's fast and has plenty of health for surviving a scrap.

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I have only played the Grozovoi as a rental ship, but to me it was just not worth it over the Gearing. 

 

The Khaba is one of the most special ships in the game.

Every match is a crazy rollercoaster ride. 

As long as you don't have to spot enemy DDs yourself, you are simply Troll-Superman and enjoy complete freedom. 

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1 hour ago, Nechrom said:

No support capabilities at all, a pure lone wolf. A strong ship no doubt, but definitely not something for support.

What do you mean by support? Since the Kebab is very good at supporting a DD trying to cap. While it's a bit iffy to cap by yourself you can use your superior firepower and survivability to scare away or kill any DDs threatening your capping DD. There are few DDs that are willing to go up against a Kebab without support.

 

And while capping is most often hard, if the enemy DD doesn't have any spotting support like hydro, planes or other ships he can't really shoot you from smoke, which means you only have to worry about torpedoes. And if a DD sits in smoke and you have an opportunity to go close enough for your 6km torps to work they're very effective. The torps are slow, but they have the shortest detection range in the game which means the enemy won't see them until it's probably too late. They're also fairly strong, dealing almost 20k damage each.

 

The great speed and high health, for a DD, of the ship makes it one of the most survivable ships in the game. Despite your big size you're one of the hardest DDs to hit at a distance, you actually have a little bit of armour that can protect you from some damage and your big health and heal lets you tank what damage you take and if things get too rough you can always run away.

 

 

All in all, if you want a more normal DD experience, go with the Grozovoi. But if you want to be able to cruise around picking fights with anyone you want, go with the Kebab.

 

I haven't actually played the Grozovoi, but I have it researched and will buy it as soon as I can get enough credits and manage to resist buying any cheaper ships while earning those creds.

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45 minutes ago, Runegrem said:

What do you mean by support? Since the Kebab is very good at supporting a DD trying to cap. While it's a bit iffy to cap by yourself you can use your superior firepower and survivability to scare away or kill any DDs threatening your capping DD. There are few DDs that are willing to go up against a Kebab without support.

I didn't mean fire support. Any ship can give that.

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11 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

I didn't mean fire support. Any ship can give that.

Ah. That's true. But the Kebab excels at close range fire support.

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As people have said it's a choice between a classic type DD that can sneaky beaky, has respectable torps and guns and contest caps or effectively a light cruiser with lousy concealment but ludicrous shell spamming.

I've gone down the Groz route as it suits me, but I know people who like the Khaba approach and make it work well so it's a matter of taste.

 

It would be nice if you could try out ships in the Training room, but if you install the test server client it's perfectly possible to try stuff on there and see which you prefer.

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Khabarovsk.

 

 

Only thing the Grozovoy is particularily good at is annoying aircraft carriers and to see those with regularity at tier X you have to division up with one yourself. For everything else (torpedoing, contesting caps, smoking up allies, gunboating) other DDs are better.

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In the Grozhevoi you are safer from carriers as the Kebab is carrier bait and you can actually contest caps. The Kebab sometimes gets screwed over in MM and you're the only destroyer on your team against an enemy team with 3 Hindenburgs.  The Grozhevoi also synergizes better with allied destroyers. In a Kebab, I find that you often need to play somewhat cautiously to stop yourself from being turned into a reef by the focus fire of the enemy team early game and you'll find less to do in a team with competent destroyer captains. In wide maps however the Khabarovsk is better at just doing everything and she also is vastly superior at singlehandedly delaying and slowing down an enemy battleship fleet's advance. The Khabarovsk is really crippled by her matchmaking and can struggle on certain maps, but is excellent on the maps which she shines. 

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imo Grozo is one of the most cool dd's in game, looks real great together with the special camo on it (= +20% credits + 100% extra xp etc.)...makes even credits in tier X battles or break-even. took me a lot of experimenting to get it to work for me ( i mean: to make it fit/suit the best to my personnal agressive play-style). only recently i found my perfect build for my Grozo; does very fine as a real good (nasty!, lol) shooter); dont bother too much about stealth, imo its all about keeping speed + the great guns (velocity 950 m/s !). Anyway, this is my build:

 

19points capt:

1)PM

2)AR + LS

3)SE + BFT

4)AFT +RL

 

upgrades:

1)MA mod 1

2)Prop mod. 1

3)AA guns mod 2

4)Prop. Mod 2

5)Stearing gears mod 3

6)Main battery mod 3

 

speed: 39,5 (basis)

rudder shift: 2,8 sec (!!)..maybe thats the MOST important of all: make it fast-rudder-shift!

conceilment 7,4

AA max range 7,5...so the AA (total AA = 72) you can leave it on: it keeps you undetected rather good since you shoot down launched float-planes fastly and easily; also provides good defense against CV-planes

 

IMO: use your speed and fast-rudder + HE-shells (mostly BB's); your AP-shells are also very strong against cruisers(!!).

 

Most enemy dd's will not feel "happy" when you start fast-shooting at them , lol

 

About yr smoke: use it for helping some teammate cruisers or BB's + if necessary use it for own escape. Dont use yr smoke for "patiently shooting a long time from out of smoke", keep SPEEDY

 

In short: use the Grozo as a very fast and good manoevrable fast shooting "mean-machine"...that way you will contribute to yr team best ways and have a very nice time playing it.

try it out & have fun (..no doubt you will like it):cap_rambo::cap_rambo:....:cap_popcorn:....:cap_look::cap_cool::cap_cool::cap_rambo::cap_rambo:....anyway, thats how I play it:cap_popcorn:

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Kebab is well, Kebab. Unique gameplay of shoot fast and sail even faster, she excels at pestering battleships and providing firepower support to capping DDs.

 

Grozovoi I find best described "russian Gearing", with all the quirks coming from that statement. Yes, ship have high speed, 2nd best hp, her ubervelocity and quickloading 130mm guns have no issues hitting DDs even at max range, her torps are Gearing/Fletcher class in terms of speed and detection, though they lack in damage and reload. She packs quite capable AA and can mount Dakka Button, but doesn't have lolGearing smoke. Also she have massive hull, that eats BB AP pens all the time and maneuvreability leaves a lot to be desired, making torpedo evasion harder than one would thought. Her guns have so good shell velocity island abuse can be quite damn hard to pull off.

 

If you want to play dedicated, evasion tanking gunboat, you have Khaba. She loses as cap knife fighter to Gearing while having small concealment disadvantage. If you want T10 torpedoboat, Shima/Gearing/Z-52 are better. If you want "teamwork", Gearing got you covered with still decent AA and epic smoke. Basically she is "second best" to other DDs, while having considerable drawbacks of her own

 

Personally, my reward in "Grozo branch" is Udaloi, which is almost classic RU gunboat, that unlike classic RU gunboat actually can turn, packs capable torpedoes (and a lot of them) and has good artillery range, more than Khaba or Grozovoi. Tashkent has even more range, but is stuck with non dual purpose turrets, which take some time to turn.

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Groz is a sweetie, good fun to play and I tended to kill all the Gerings I cam across, lasers for guns and a passable rate of fire. Detection is 6 km and 10 km torpedoes make it quite practical as a torpedo boat. 

 

Khab is the most broken ship in the game. Impossible 50 mm belt armour puts it in a different class to every other DD, and it's speed is ludicrous. Run it as light cruiser with 9/10km detection and max out HP, fire chance and ROF. With heal rather than smoke it is the best light cuiser in the game.

 

For me the high point of the line was Minsk and Leningrad. Gameplay from tier 8 up gets rather frantic with all the radar and high ROF cruisers. Basically I need to be a try hard to do well. It's just more effort than i want to invest in the game, so I avoid T9/10 ships.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Panocek said:

If you want to play dedicated, evasion tanking gunboat, you have Khaba. She loses as cap knife fighter to Gearing while having small concealment disadvantage.

1. I actually tend to win most fights at all ranges vs. other DDs in the Kebab.

2. "Small" concealment disadvantage?

 

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

Personally, my reward in "Grozo branch" is Udaloi, which is almost classic RU gunboat, that unlike classic RU gunboat actually can turn, packs capable torpedoes (and a lot of them) and has good artillery range, more than Khaba or Grozovoi. Tashkent has even more range, but is stuck with non dual purpose turrets, which take some time to turn.

Yeah. The Udaloi is awesome. I played it a lot before the split though, and after the split I had a newbie captain on it, so I'm not entirely sure how she's changed. When I played her she was awesome though. Good guns, workable concealment, but I hear people say her concealment is lacking though. Also, she has three torp launchers, one mid and two on the sides, with the side ones having a really good forward angle.

 

 

29 minutes ago, That_Other_Nid said:

Khab is the most broken ship in the game. Impossible 50 mm belt armour puts it in a different class to every other DD, and it's speed is ludicrous.

I think there are some RN BBs that are fairly broken, and a bunch of premiums are clearly more broken.

 

Don't overestimate the armour though. It might be able to stop any HE that's not 200mm with IFHE or BB HE and bounce even Yamato AP shells with the right angle, but it only covers part of where the citadel would be on a real cruiser.

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TL;DR - Khabarovsk!

 

When you get to tier 8, unlock both Ognevoi and Kiev and mess around with both, see what style you like. 

The Kiev is amazing, Tashkent used to be a bit of a chore to grind, but Khaba is a unique playstyle as others have said.In the other tree Ognevoi used to be terrible on tier 6, so I imagine it is a horrendous grind at T8, but the tier 9 Udaloi is one of my all-time favorite dds and I could recommend the other tree for that DD alone.

 

My personal opinion on Grozevoi: it is more of a joke than a ship. It could be a nice DD, but it has one insurmountable problem.

Grozevoi has a terrible engine. The ship is big, sluggish and takes forever to stop and accelerate. Slotting the propulsion mod II it is about as good at it as your regular DD without propulsion mod. Without it, it will glide into torpedoes and out of smokes like no other ship you ever played, worse than Royal navy cruisers.

Basically this

 

5 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Khabarovsk.

 

 

Only thing the Grozovoy is particularily good at is annoying aircraft carriers and to see those with regularity at tier X you have to division up with one yourself. For everything else (torpedoing, contesting caps, smoking up allies, gunboating) other DDs are better.

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Kiev. It's more fun. The Ognevoi is a lacklustre torpedo boat with weak guns and too long a reload on the torps. Also, by now you should have an RU DD captain with at least 10pts and specd into AFT for the Minsk. If you go for the Ognevoi you're probably going to have to grind out a fresh captain for it (Ognevoi needs CE to work properly).

 

Get the Kiev, do the Flamu RU DD Gunboat build on it and spend glorious times showering out of position BBs with the HE Dakka Dakka.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Captain_KriegWurst said:

Kiev. It's more fun.

Also, it is one of two DDs with secondaries. It's not much, just a single 85mm double turret with 5km base range, but it's there.

 

Umikaze A-hull also has secondaries, pretty decent at that. Well, if you for some reason get within the short 2km range that is.

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6 hours ago, Runegrem said:

1. I actually tend to win most fights at all ranges vs. other DDs in the Kebab.

2. "Small" concealment disadvantage?

 

Kebab wins gunfights, provided you can see enemy DD. And going cap contesting in Kebab is... not exactly good.

6km Grozovoi detection vs 5.9km on Gearing/Shima.

 

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Khaba.

 

Gorzovoi is OK, but again why Grozovoi when you can have Gearing? I have it and played it a few times - very run of the mill, not inspiring DD. but that is only my opinion.... 

 

On other hand - Khaba is a guaranteed damage dealer. Only CVs and some CAs  (I found Hindenburg to be the most dangerous) can really threaten a good Khaba player. If you find an isolated BB - there is NOTHING that he can do to you. You just burn him down from 11-13km distance. Don't come closer. 

 

Grozovoi is a usual DD -relies on support and can contribute by capping etc. On other hand, Khaba is a lone wolf... 

 

Have fun with whatever you decide to do! 

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4 hours ago, Panocek said:

Kebab wins gunfights, provided you can see enemy DD. And going cap contesting in Kebab is... not exactly good.

About the only time you can readily contest caps in the Kebab without spotting support is if the enemy also doesn't have support. If he smokes up you can rush the smoke, but unless it's a PA-DD you have to worry about torps. If he doesn't smoke up the situation is slightly different but workable. It's dangerous in any case, but you have the tools to make it work most of the time.

 

4 hours ago, Panocek said:

6km Grozovoi detection vs 5.9km on Gearing/Shima.

Oh, with the new paragraph and the previous sentence mentioning the Kebab I thought that was the ship you meant.

 

1 hour ago, Zen71_sniper said:

On other hand - Khaba is a guaranteed damage dealer. Only CVs and some CAs  (I found Hindenburg to be the most dangerous) can really threaten a good Khaba player. If you find an isolated BB - there is NOTHING that he can do to you. You just burn him down from 11-13km distance. Don't come closer.

I find the RU CAs to be the most dangerous with their rail guns. Also, BBs can hurt you a lot if they get a good salvo in. CVs are very dependent on the player. You can easily outrun all CV torps even while maneuvering. The exception being the Kaga's torps, but she's is tier 7 so you shouldn't meet her, and a lot of CV players aren't used to drop on as fast ships as the RU DDs so they often miss. Your AA isn't good enough to shoot down more than one or two planes though, unless you get lucky. And even that's counting when the planes retreat.

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@Tyrendian89@Nechrom@Nechrom@Runegrem@BeauNidl3@Aotearas@dasCKD@Yaskaraxx@Panocek@That_Other_Nid@GulvkluderGuld@Captain_KriegWurst@Zen71_sniper

I have read a wide variety of useful advice and guidance from you guys, and all great players in those 2 ships and obviously the ships preceding them, the good thing is, the choice starts at T8 on which way to go, which is still 2 tiers away and because the advice form you guys is kinda split 50/50 I will grind for both the Khaba & Grozovoi, and after that, onto Imperial and Soviet Cruisers.

 

Again, Thanks for your help, new players like myself truly rely on you advanced players, and with your help and guidance, maybe new and learned players will put an end to making the wrong choices to advance in this game before they have learned the basics of skills and team play.

 

Regards.

:Smile_honoring:

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In the end, I think it was touched upon somewhere, but the most important thing is which line you think will be the most fun for you. Which ships are statistically more powerful or better is less important. It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Also, you play better if the game's more fun for you.

 

Happy "grind"!

:Smile_honoring:

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Not forgetting that apart from the time to grind the exp, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from going down both lines.

 

Trying the lines out on the Public Test Server might well help you make an informed choice, it's very easy and fast to progress on there as long as you accept that it gets wiped every few weeks.

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I have both. Grozovoi and Khaba. I like Grozovoi a lot more than Khaba.

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1 hour ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Trying the lines out on the Public Test Server

Sounds like a good idea, I have a little more time to play now, maybe able to squeeze in few more games each month.  thanks.:Smile_honoring:

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