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ImperialAdmiral

Year of the cruiser when?

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It is really starting to get a little bit ridiculous.

 

Cruiser in VIII+ games are in absurd minority. Games where I am the only cruiser on team or one of just two is pretty much standard these days. Usually with 5 braindead camping battleships and 5 destroyers. 

Is there still a place for the cruisers in this game?

Is this really that hard to disallow more than 4 of BBs and DDs per side in game?

 

I can only hope that the new cruiser branches will change the trend for at least some time...

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T8 Cruiser are just in a bad place because they get uptiered frequently, ontop of them being pretty mediocre in the first place. But since the powercreep is so bad, i can understand why many ppl wouldnt want to push through to it.

The best thing they can do is sit back and spam HE... Also a reason why the Hipper is pretty bad. HE is not strong, and using AP is highly situational. Roon and Hindenburg (even more) can engange 1v1 BBs because of the amount of guns and far better reload than Hipper.

Havent played NO myself, but ive heard bad things :Smile_teethhappy:

Edinburgh is mostly a Fiji with terrible MM.

Mogami with 155 probably the best of the T8s.

Chapa has longrange but weak HE, and when u wanna use Radar u gotta get closer, but at the same time its pretty squishy.

CM... Longrange HE spam? Also tends to get citadelled fairly easy imo.

 

 

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First thing is, all T8 cruisers should have access to heal. Period.

 

If you have to play with the "big guys" then you should also have the tools like the big guys. Atago / Takao work just fine.

 

Though this will not make cruisers available in abundance immediately it simply would be a step in the right direction, i.e. making T8 cruisers more viable in high tier games.

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5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

T8 Cruiser are just in a bad place because they get uptiered frequently, ontop of them being pretty mediocre in the first place. But since the powercreep is so bad, i can understand why many ppl wouldnt want to push through to it.

The best thing they can do is sit back and spam HE... Also a reason why the Hipper is pretty bad. HE is not strong, and using AP is highly situational. Roon and Hindenburg (even more) can engange 1v1 BBs because of the amount of guns and far better reload than Hipper.

Havent played NO myself, but ive heard bad things :Smile_teethhappy:

Edinburgh is mostly a Fiji with terrible MM.

Mogami with 155 probably the best of the T8s.

Chapa has longrange but weak HE, and when u wanna use Radar u gotta get closer, but at the same time its pretty squishy.

CM... Longrange HE spam? Also tends to get citadelled fairly easy imo.

 

 

When you are the only cruiser on the team, especially tier VIII cruiser, you have to get closer to so you can actually fire at sth. But when you do that, momentaly you are aimed by 6-7 enemy ships. You need to count on others support. 

BBs? On the map border. Sometimes there is a friendly dd that will smoke you. Props for those people. But most of the time you just struggle under heavy barage because cruisers are "free frags".

I'm just sick of it.

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New Orleans was the most painful grind ever as no heal, no armour and AP that doesn't pen higher Tier Cruisers with the Lel MM makes you almost ineffective...

 

Chapy wasn't too bad as you can always find something to IFHE spam down from distance and I don't remember feeling the pain with Edin radar build.

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i second the statement of @ImperialAdmiral that cruisers are often free frags. most of the time, i get targeted although i am not the nearest target and i'm angled. but that is the situation with cruisers, angling doesn't matter and after a few salvos, you end up dead. 

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I can recommend Edinburgh, Mogami and Atago as good tier 8 cruisers that still work well. Mogami will be needing IFHE though, 155mm guns are a given.

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42 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

First thing is, all T8 cruisers should have access to heal. Period.

 

I'd say extend that to T7 as well, possibly even T6. 

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6 minutes ago, Mucker said:

I'd say extend that to T7 as well, possibly even T6. 

I'd say no. Tier 6-7 manage without heal, but tier 8 cruisers are in such a brutal enviroment since everything overamtches them and CV's don't give a damn if you spec for AA or not.

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IMHO all higher tier cruisers ought to have heal and an "escape" smoke - a special smoke that gives 0% cover when firing, just so that it can be used only for turning and disengaging.

 

"Damage upon spotting" XP reward probably ought to be given to cruisers (only), so that they have a viable (and historically realistic) alternative role to play instead of the current one of fire-and-thus-get-deleted.

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12 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

I'd say no. Tier 6-7 manage without heal, but tier 8 cruisers are in such a brutal enviroment since everything overamtches them and CV's don't give a damn if you spec for AA or not.

 

Problem is, when they actually do get T6-T7 MM, suddenly they are OP against them. Basicly the same as T8 vs T10 currently. It does happen, even when individually it doesnt happen that often.

Basicly T8 Ships would need a Heal when they are in T10 MM, but i dont think WG would/can implement that. Maybe Cruisers should just get a Heal from the get go. Even if it would be only 1... Lowtiers can ofc get "tweaked" heal, which doesnt do that much.

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12 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

I'd say no. Tier 6-7 manage without heal, but tier 8 cruisers are in such a brutal enviroment since everything overamtches them and CV's don't give a damn if you spec for AA or not.

Well, tier 6 is certainly debatable,  but T7 cruisers also face a rather harsh environment.  I don't see a hard cut between T7 and 8 at all.

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15 minutes ago, cracktrackflak said:

IMHO all higher tier cruisers ought to have [...] an "escape" smoke - a special smoke that gives 0% cover when firing, just so that it can be used only for turning and disengaging.

 

Thats a real interesting idea. I like it!

 

1 hour ago, Negativvv said:

I don't remember feeling the pain with Edin radar build.

 

You played Edin with Radar also? :cap_wander: I gotta say, we should division up some day with RN CLs. I bring the smoke - you bring the radar. That sounds pretty cool.:cap_tea:

 

 

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Heal for tier VIII cruisers would be definitely help even if only a bit.

But the problem with overpopulation of other classes still remains.

 

This is visible even in the policy of releasing premium ships.

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2 minutes ago, Mucker said:

Well, tier 6 is certainly debatable,  but T7 cruisers also face a rather harsh environment.  I don't see a hard cut between T7 and 8 at all.

T7 cruisers have it much much easier thanks to the MM algorithm. The best option overall is to not give out more gimmicks, but rather rework the MM algorithm so you are not bottom tier every single game you play in tier 5-6 and 8.

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6 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

T7 cruisers have it much much easier thanks to the MM algorithm. The best option overall is to not give out more gimmicks, but rather rework the MM algorithm so you are not bottom tier every single game you play in tier 5-6 and 8.

Well, the MM algorithm has to cover much more than just he feasibility of a certain ship class in a certain tier range. And how exactly is the MM for T7 cruisers better that for T8? Just because they face +2 MM somewhat less often?

 

T7 cruisers face much harder pressure from lower tiers than T8 crusiers do. Most T8 cruisers comfortably bow tank most T6 BB shells, while T7 cruisers can't bow tank even measly 305 mm shells from T5 BBs. T8 crusiers also have access to the concealment module,  T7 don't. So with basically the same same or worse stock concealment as T8, they are spotted sooner for longer. 

 

So no, T7 cruisers do not have it much easier due to MM, since they can't farm lower tier ships as easily as T8s can. And even if that weren't the case, that still does not change the major issue high tier cruisers face: being outspotted by DDs  and thus being hammered by BBs without a reasonable countermeasure. Only RNG decides whether the first BB salvo will eat 10%, 25%, 60% or 90% of your health pool.  And that is exactly the issue that should be addressed, and can be most easily addressed by heal.

 

 

 

 

 

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Would like to see T8 get a + /- 1 , so it is not op against T6, but do not get blitzed by T10.

 

 

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Player Average for Shipclasses [ at 2018/01/20 ]


Higher Tier


Class        Players        Total Battles
BB              42848          1922140    
CA              33010          1254933    
DD              23670            961842
CV               2992                94209

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3 hours ago, ImperialAdmiral said:

Cruiser in VIII+ games are in absurd minority.

 

A few months back (I think it might have been in the "nerf the Conq" thread) someone posted statistics comparing how it is now (well, was in autumn) and how it was 2 years (2.5 years now?) back.

If memory serves me right - tier 9 and 10 cruisers are actually played more than they used to be, directly opposite to your assumption here.

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Yorck and Hipper need buffing. Hipper is the only ship I free XP past. Too boring, too weak, couldn't bother. Roon is a massive improvement. New Orleans will be changed regardless, so...

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If its going to be the same as the "Year of the CV" then PLEASE GOD NO!!
I would hope for "Year of the BB" to strike next so we can finally get a balanced game...

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39 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

A few months back (I think it might have been in the "nerf the Conq" thread) someone posted statistics comparing how it is now (well, was in autumn) and how it was 2 years (2.5 years now?) back.

If memory serves me right - tier 9 and 10 cruisers are actually played more than they used to be, directly opposite to your assumption here.

 

Few months ago I didn't complain either. Play some games now. 

A lot of them will give you games with 1 to 3 cruisers.

 

Majority of fleet composition should consist of cruisers. Worked back in a day and still kinda works on lower tiers. Problem is with higher tiers where there is overpopulation of BBs and DDs. 

If some statistic says that cruisers are second most played group then where are they? 

Only answer is that MM system is just broken.

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4 hours ago, ImperialAdmiral said:

Year of the cruiser when?

 

considering how "year of the cv" worked yout you really want them to do that ?? :Smile_trollface:

 

 

*also all high tier cruisers are fine except maybe the hipper ,NO, and maybe ibuki

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