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Crysantos

Clan vs. Clan battes: Primetime in the future

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Dear captains!

 

Thanks to your support, the first season of clan battles was a success, and the second one is just about to begin. However, some of you, especially those who live outside of the most populated time zones, cannot fully engage in the clan battles due to inconvenient primetimes.

 

Primetime is still something we need for clan battles, as it allows faster queues with adequately diverse opponents. We don’t want this new and exciting game mode to turn into a second job that needs the teams to play without breaks. That being said, we still want the mode to be available to all clans, irrespective of where their members live.

 

This is why we’re working on a way to solve the primetime issue once and for all. The core principle is that you will be able to participate in the other servers’ clan battles during their respective primetimes. This means, that even when most of the players on your server are offline and it’s past the primetime, you’ll still be able to find worthy opponents on a different server. In addition, you will receive all the appropriate rewards and be able to improve your rating, while your accounts will remain on your own server. This leads us to another positive outcome: a global clan rating. All clan battle participants will be able to show their skills to other players around the world.

 

Obviously, the most burning question right now is: “When will you implement this feature?”. We can’t tell you the exact version number (or clan battles season for that matter) yet, but we can assure you that we working on making this happen.

 

We see this as one of top priorities for the game and THE top priority for development of our clan community.

 

Thanks again for your support and involvement!

 

Your World of Warships Team

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Hmm, does that mean we're possibly looking at a future where the big server clusters might actually play with another?

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That's good to hear but a bit late for those of us that could not participate in the first season and have now missed the chance to earn the stalingrad, or would it be possible to just need to earn typhoon in any 3 seasons to get her?

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Hmm, does that mean we're possibly looking at a future where the big server clusters might actually play with another?

 

Its too early to talk about that aspect, for now we will be focusing on getting the feature working and implemented for clan battles, then we can see what else might be possible.

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Will it still be a middle finger towards shift workers who sometimes missed 3 out of 4 evenings ?

 

What about the clan hopping ? People changed clans more often than they changed their underwear.

Will there still be pseudo leagues where lower ones end up against the highest one in half their games ? And when they manage to win, they get 3 more points than for a victory against their same league ?

 

 

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Assuming same primetimes are kept (written in order as they happen from first to last in the same run)

 

Asia 13:00 - 16:00 CET (20:00 - 23:00 UTC+8)

RU 17:00 - 20:00 CET (19:00 - 22:20 MSK)

EU 19:00 - 22:00 CET

NA  2:00 - 5:00 CET (17:00 PT / 20:00 ET - 20:00 PT / 23:00 ET)

 

2 points here

  • RU and EU overlap for an hour. Does that mean for an hour they would always randomly play together even without intending to do so?
  • @MrConway @Crysantos How exactly does this fix any "missed it because of work" problems? Asia is during work hours, RU is right before EU which people are missing, EU - already have the problem, and then NA - I'm sure they will play in the middle of the night because who needs to sleep anyway?

Lets go one step further and adjust this for all 3 other regions:

 

Asia 20:00 - 23:00 UTC+8

RU 24:00 - 3:00 UTC+8

EU 2:00 - 5:00 UTC+8

NA  9:00 - 12:00 UTC+8

 


 

Asia 15:00 - 18:00 MSK

RU 19:00 - 22:20 MSK

EU 21:00 - 24:00 MSK

NA  4:00 - 7:00 MSK

 


 

Asia 4:00 PT - 7:00 PT

RU 8:00 PT - 11:00 PT

EU 10:00 PT - 12:00 PT

NA  17:00 PT / 20:00 ET - 20:00 PT / 23:00 ET

 

  • Asia - goes through the night and morning, noone with work will stay up for it
  • Skip RU, go for NA - going throughout the morning and day - noone with work benefits
  • Step back to RU. Oh would you look at that, effectively they get their prime time extended by 2 hours on the expense of EU (servers close enough so ping wouldn't be an issue). Literally the only server with a real benefit.

So the "not target audience" get it sort-of better in all the regions as long as they can get a team together, while the "target audience" can go screw themselves in all regions except Russia? Great plan, well thought through!

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I suppose you can start by adjusting primtime for each server on its own. For some servers the time window was clearly not optimal.
Would it be possible to think about implementing 9v9 Clan Battles instead of 7v7? That way there might be a possibility to implement CVs into Clan Battles in later seasons. There were a lot of CV players who complained about no CVs in Clan Battles.

 

I look forward to Clan Battles against other servers so I hope it won't take too long. But don't rush it ;)

 

 

501341230.png

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Wouldn't ping be a major issue anyway when you usually are on EU but play a CB on Asia?

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well this will mean that it will be harder to achieve top rewards since  youre nor not copeting against 1/4th  but against all clans for a spot in typhoon.

 

im not sure that is something to look forward too for a great portion of clans.

overly simplified that means only the top 1/4th of a server that made it to typhoon will be able to do so in future.

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36 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

well this will mean that it will be harder to achieve top rewards since  youre nor not copeting against 1/4th  but against all clans for a spot in typhoon.

 

im not sure that is something to look forward too for a great portion of clans.

overly simplified that means only the top 1/4th of a server that made it to typhoon will be able to do so in future.

 

How so?

- the spots in the highest League (there will be one more: Hurricane) are not limited so there is no competition for a certain number of spots

- you will have more time (in hours per day) to get the needed wins and more flexibility to do so (overlapping with RU)

- the higher the number of clans in a queue pool, the higher the chance that you will face an equal opponent and avoiding higher ranked clans. That's how ELO works. On the flipside, you will also avoid weaker clans.

 

So the global Server changes will not affect the % of clans reaching Typhoon.

 

The thing that will make it tougher for average clans is the new Hurricane League. Because this will be an additional hurdle to climb above Typhoon.

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54 minutes ago, LilJumpa said:

So the global Server changes will not affect the % of clans reaching Typhoon.

 

The thing that will make it tougher for average clans is the new Hurricane League. Because this will be an additional hurdle to climb above Typhoon.

 

 yeah i see my point was a wrong the way i wrote it.

it wont affect the % but the distribution

(because of the sorting process matches will be more evenly metcht cause you will have more teams on each skill lvl)

 

also i assume the aditinal league will be just like the  league when you hit R1 not offering aditional rewards and to remove top clans from typhoon  to compensate for the  distribution effects i wanted to get at

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4 hours ago, Picafort said:

Wouldn't ping be a major issue anyway when you usually are on EU but play a CB on Asia?

 

In a rather slowpaced game like wows, which also has a pretty good netcode, ping is not really an issue. Its only important to remain a relativly stable ping and not to have packetloss. Then again, those issues are often client-side or due to problems of the ISP, so they would affect you no matter on what server you play.

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22 hours ago, Crysantos said:

Dear captains!

 

Thanks to your support, the first season of clan battles was a success, and the second one is just about to begin. However, some of you, especially those who live outside of the most populated time zones, cannot fully engage in the clan battles due to inconvenient primetimes.

 

Primetime is still something we need for clan battles, as it allows faster queues with adequately diverse opponents. We don’t want this new and exciting game mode to turn into a second job that needs the teams to play without breaks. That being said, we still want the mode to be available to all clans, irrespective of where their members live.

 

This is why we’re working on a way to solve the primetime issue once and for all. The core principle is that you will be able to participate in the other servers’ clan battles during their respective primetimes. This means, that even when most of the players on your server are offline and it’s past the primetime, you’ll still be able to find worthy opponents on a different server. In addition, you will receive all the appropriate rewards and be able to improve your rating, while your accounts will remain on your own server. This leads us to another positive outcome: a global clan rating. All clan battle participants will be able to show their skills to other players around the world.

 

Obviously, the most burning question right now is: “When will you implement this feature?”. We can’t tell you the exact version number (or clan battles season for that matter) yet, but we can assure you that we working on making this happen.

 

We see this as one of top priorities for the game and THE top priority for development of our clan community.

 

Thanks again for your support and involvement!

 

Your World of Warships Team

So in a Sense what you are looking to do is have us log onto our home server (EU/CIS/NA/SEA) and then have the Clan Wars element in terms of the battles and games be held on a separate server/section of the Data Center (EG for use of this example the PTS) and have it connected together via a Wide Area Network allowing internal communication between all four servers with the information for clans held in the "central location" the PTS.  

This is a good idea TBH, its not potentially something you would want turned on all the time as it would increase the load on the hamsters, but for seasons at a time it would work very well potentially. 

i watch with interest

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15 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

In a rather slowpaced game like wows, which also has a pretty good netcode, ping is not really an issue. Its only important to remain a relativly stable ping and not to have packetloss. Then again, those issues are often client-side or due to problems of the ISP, so they would affect you no matter on what server you play.

I remember a show match between EU and Asia clans, unexpectedly the european players did not stand a chance, blaming ping issues....  

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The idea of merging the regions for Clan Battle PRIME time purposes is very innovative and good.

 

Globally this will obviously raise more questions and ideas around the rationale for having regional clusters. This is a big topic and we all know that for Wargaming this is not only a technology issue (servers, ping), but a significant financial strategy (pricing)

 

However overall I believe merging the regions in WoWs into one would be beneficial for the game-quality and it is technically not impossible to do (just link up the regional servers with each other with fast connection so the player's ping won't get significantly worse).

If you look at the World of Tanks figures you realize that the optimal playerbase for a cluster is approx 100,000 (EU WoT has 2 clusters 100,000each peak time, RU has 7-8 clusters of 100,000 prime time)

By having the peak time 30,000 EU Warships players and the 15,000 NA players and the ASIA 15,000 players in one technical cluster would make MatchMaking and team balancing far more optimal all the time.

 

So I hope Clan Battle cluster merge is just the beginning - WG needs to face the fact that the playerbase will not grow significantly to reach optimum for game balance, therefore merge must take place.

 

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3 hours ago, Picafort said:

I remember a show match between EU and Asia clans, unexpectedly the european players did not stand a chance, blaming ping issues....  

 

The scapegoat of blaming the ping for a loss is as old as onlinegaming :)

 

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31 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

The scapegoat of blaming the ping for a loss is as old as onlinegaming :)

4 hours ago, Picafort said:

I remember a show match between EU and Asia clans, unexpectedly the european players did not stand a chance, blaming ping issues....  

 

Well, CVs are still excluded out of CB, they would be the ones seriously affected by ping.

But yeah, EU vs Asia would actually be problematic with [from what I've heard] ping up to 550 - that does change things.

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On 1/24/2018 at 10:37 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

Assuming same primetimes are kept (written in order as they happen from first to last in the same run)

 

Asia 13:00 - 16:00 CET (20:00 - 23:00 UTC+8)

RU 17:00 - 20:00 CET (19:00 - 22:20 MSK)

EU 19:00 - 22:00 CET

NA  2:00 - 5:00 CET (17:00 PT / 20:00 ET - 20:00 PT / 23:00 ET)

 

2 points here

  • RU and EU overlap for an hour. Does that mean for an hour they would always randomly play together even without intending to do so?
  • @MrConway @Crysantos How exactly does this fix any "missed it because of work" problems? Asia is during work hours, RU is right before EU which people are missing, EU - already have the problem, and then NA - I'm sure they will play in the middle of the night because who needs to sleep anyway?

Lets go one step further and adjust this for all 3 other regions:

 

Asia 20:00 - 23:00 UTC+8

RU 24:00 - 3:00 UTC+8

EU 2:00 - 5:00 UTC+8

NA  9:00 - 12:00 UTC+8

 


 

Asia 15:00 - 18:00 MSK

RU 19:00 - 22:20 MSK

EU 21:00 - 24:00 MSK

NA  4:00 - 7:00 MSK

 


 

Asia 4:00 PT - 7:00 PT

RU 8:00 PT - 11:00 PT

EU 10:00 PT - 12:00 PT

NA  17:00 PT / 20:00 ET - 20:00 PT / 23:00 ET

 

  • Asia - goes through the night and morning, noone with work will stay up for it
  • Skip RU, go for NA - going throughout the morning and day - noone with work benefits
  • Step back to RU. Oh would you look at that, effectively they get their prime time extended by 2 hours on the expense of EU (servers close enough so ping wouldn't be an issue). Literally the only server with a real benefit.

So the "not target audience" get it sort-of better in all the regions as long as they can get a team together, while the "target audience" can go screw themselves in all regions except Russia? Great plan, well thought through!

 

I see your point, although I think providing more options will definitely help some people and clans.

 

Counter-question: How would you set it up?

 

Bearing in mind that we cannot run CVC constantly, don't want people to burn out by having too many days in a row and let the maximum number of people play.

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7 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I see your point, although I think providing more options will definitely help some people and clans.

 

Counter-question: How would you set it up?

 

Bearing in mind that we cannot run CVC constantly, don't want people to burn out by having too many days in a row and let the maximum number of people play.

Hmm, the obvious problem is that what works for one player doesn't work for another :cap_hmm:

The only one that seems to benefit - RU - gets their effective time simply slightly extended. I'm not sure how it was in other clans - but in both that I played during 1st season there often were people who could arrive 1...2 hours late, just enough to make it for the end... So maybe just extending the PT from 3h to 4h might help? :cap_yes:

 

And apart from those awkward times - I do find the server vs server idea appealing :cap_haloween:

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yup, i have to agree the time zones of the various servers are too far apart to benefit all servers, on a personal note i'd just like the time extending by an hour later for those of us who work late...

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On 26.1.2018 at 5:54 PM, MrConway said:

Counter-question: How would you set it up?

 

19:00 CET is too early for many people. 

I don't think many have to stop at 22:00 CET either. 

 

Why not let it run till 23:00 or 24:00 CET? 

 

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23 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

19:00 CET is too early for many people. 

I don't think many have to stop at 22:00 CET either. 

 

Why not let it run till 23:00 or 24:00 CET? 

 

Late evenings is "prime time" for some as family commitments etc are over and it's a few hours or so of gaming before bed...

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On  a pure rational point of view, this idea of merging servers for clan battles is great, as it offers people more time to play and more people to play against. Less queue time, more diversity in the opponent teams when climbing the leagues.

The RU-EU-NA time zones will result in a very long "prime time".

And I am sure that a lot of teams will be happy about that global battles, in a competitive manner.

However, the ping might be an issue, I wonder how WG would solve this problem. EU-RU, played on RU? EU-NA, played on NA? EU-SEA, played on RU? etc etc

 

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On 1/26/2018 at 5:54 PM, MrConway said:

 

I see your point, although I think providing more options will definitely help some people and clans.

 

Counter-question: How would you set it up?

 

Bearing in mind that we cannot run CVC constantly, don't want people to burn out by having too many days in a row and let the maximum number of people play.

 

from what i heard there was big problem for UK players in my clan. prime time started at 18:00 for them. so with work and other commitments they couldnt get on time for clan wars and would be hour or 2 late. so some of them didnt even bother with it except on weekends. even with CET time it is slightly early at 19:00.

 

best option would be either to shift prime time from 19:00 CET to 20:00 CET to last till 23:00 CET, or prolong CB time for 1 hour so it lasts from 19:00 to 23:00 CET.

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