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Pasch

NEW RECORD with MIDWAY close to 500K =)

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I'm no kind of CV player, but am I the only one who watches that and thinks he didn't really play that well?

 

 

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The end result earns a compliment, still a 1 in a 1000 years matching with so many poor AA large HP BB and only 1 cruiser.

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Well with that kind of MM only the enemy CV can stop him. Almost a turkey shoot unless all those bb just cluster together. Not that I've watches the full video though.

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Had I found myself in that game I would have happily handed out all my reports on the cv player...and they say its not broken.

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54 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

Had I found myself in that game I would have happily handed out all my reports on the cv player...and they say its not broken.

Underpowered some say. I get that its janky and all that, but CV's are very unbalanced. And it goes both ways. If the player is bad its underpowered and the game is crap for the whole team. If the player is good its straight up OP. 

 

Don't think WG knows how to balance CV's as their influence is way to big. Both negative and positive. 

 

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Play 1 high tier competitive game with a CV, then you will realise how useless you are, excluding spotting.

 

Carriers can only punish bad teamplay. If you have a solid teamplay, then a CV, whether a unicum or potato can't do much to you.

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20 minutes ago, Fubucky said:

Play 1 high tier competitive game with a CV, then you will realise how useless you are, excluding spotting.

 

Carriers can only punish bad teamplay. If you have a solid teamplay, then a CV, whether a unicum or potato can't do much to you.

Not really. 

 

I had multiple games the other day where our CV was useless, and the enemy CV was very useful. One of the games was T8 CV's in T10 MM and since i (and others) where playing ships with very little AA(DD's). He kept me spotted the whole game. I could not do anything. Asking the friendly CV for help and pretty much get a " i'm busy losing planes to Des Moines AA"  answer. The enemy could shoot us from behind cover, but we could not shoot back as our CV was not spotting. I went to friendly ships with  strong AA, but he just pulled hes planes and stayed out of AA range spotting the AA ships. If i went to contest a cap he spotted me and enemy DD's could shoot me from smoke. I could not torp since i was planespotted the whole time. And it slowed the game to the point that i rageparked behind the CV.

Our CV made hes own ships useless. 

That is the problem i have with CV's. Their influence is to big. Good or bad.  

I know it takes a lot of practice to play CV's well, but i still think the influence they have is to much. 

 

I would guess WG agrees with that seeing that its the third "year of CV's". 

 

All that being said tho. When you have a good CV player on ur team and the enemy have a good CV player on their team they are pretty balanced, but how often does that happen?

 

Competitive is a different story tho. 

 

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4 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

I had multiple games the other day where our CV was useless, and the enemy CV was very useful. One of the games was T8 CV's in T10 MM and since i (and others) where playing ships with very little AA(DD's). He kept me spotted the whole game. I could not do anything. Asking the friendly CV for help and pretty much get a " i'm busy losing planes to Des Moines AA"  answer. The enemy could shoot us from behind cover, but we could not shoot back as our CV was not spotting. I went to friendly ships with  strong AA, but he just pulled hes planes and stayed out of AA range spotting the AA ships. If i went to contest a cap he spotted me and enemy DD's could shoot me from smoke. I could not torp since i was planespotted the whole time. And it slowed the game to the point that i rageparked behind the CV.

Our CV made hes own ships useless. 

That is the problem i have with CV's. Their influence is to big. Good or bad.  

I know it takes a lot of practice to play CV's well, but i still think the influence they have is to much. 

 

I agree, however, and I'm not saying it's the case in this instance, there are times when it's impossible for a CV to spot in caps. If the enemy AA cruisers have pushed up to the edge of the cap and the friendlies are hiding 15km back, it's basically impossible to spot without getting the planes wiped out. Same as any other class, the best performances occur when the team pulls together.

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Modder
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small request for the future (if it is possible): if the whole video would be in the view as the very beginning it would be way more exciting imho. that top down view is incredibly boring

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3 hours ago, Shaka_D said:

Had I found myself in that game I would have happily handed out all my reports on the cv player...and they say its not broken.

 

"CVs are broken in a broken MM scenario, therefore I must blame CVs."

Seriously, the Midway didn't even play well.

 

1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

I had multiple games the other day where our CV was useless, and the enemy CV was very useful.

 

On the other hand I just had a game in which I got an enemy Mino on one flank and a DM on the other behind cover. All I could do was completely demolish the enemy CV (I got 45 plane kills, he got 7 and was dead last on the scoreboard) while killing that one stupid BB every match has going off alone.

Meanwhile on my team all DDs suicided, one BB suicided, one BB tried to hold a cap but got killed because lol support and the three other BBs on my team camped BEHIND me. Unsurprisingly we lost. And yeah, with how this team played compared to the enemy I deserved to lose along with them.

 

It is so hilariously easy to shut down high tier CVs nowadays. All it takes is a cruiser on each flank and you're set. If a team gets demolished by a CV they most definitely deserve it one way or the other.

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Alpha Tester, Players
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that cv nothing good at all, that team literaly had 0 aa, and beside he play asia ,,,, let him come eu ;) will teach him how play

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4 minutes ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

that cv nothing good at all, that team literaly had 0 aa, and beside he play asia ,,,, let him come eu ;) will teach him how play

 

You'll beat him in your Saipan.

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1 minute ago, WolfGewehr said:

 

You'll beat him in your Saipan.

 

haha lol, thats a good idea

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3 hours ago, Capra76 said:

I'm no kind of CV player, but am I the only one who watches that and thinks he didn't really play that well?

 

 

i agree.. he got lucky MM without any ca, and lots of BB to farm damage from..

 

2 hours ago, MortenTardo said:

Underpowered some say. I get that its janky and all that, but CV's are very unbalanced. And it goes both ways. If the player is bad its underpowered and the game is crap for the whole team. If the player is good its straight up OP. 

 

Don't think WG knows how to balance CV's as their influence is way to big. Both negative and positive. 

 

depends on the MM, tier and players, not just players. sometimes even good players cant do crap when they have shitty MM and are bottom tiered.

 

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1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

Not really. 

Agree.

 

I have played Muliplayer games for well over 15.years. I have played casual (Wot and Wows) and more hardcore games (VBS/ArmA series) and everything in the middle. And there is one thing every game have in common - that if there is a random cluster of people showed together, there is very little actual teamplay. There is always some teamplay, but at variable level. Sometime you can see high level of teamplay, sometimes none.

 

This is the reason why WG have been chronically unable to balance CV. Because in random battles, actual level of teamplay varies wildly. Also individual player skill varies. So there is no real baseline on what to balance a CV. A good CV player can be very good against bad teams, while bad CV player, in same CV, can be spectacularly bad against even average teams. Also, in random battles, MM decides what ships any of the teams get, so it is possible that good CV player can face a enemy team with bad CV player, but no AA of their own.

 

CV in WoWS acts more like a Operational level of gameplay. While all the other ships are direct combat or tactical level.  Operational level is more important, because it should dictate or atleast react to the maneuvers on the tactical level. In Random battle CV player has little chance to dictate tactics, because there is little actual teamplay and there is not even common language that everybody understands. But because CV can move its assets around the battle faster and react on the changes faster, individual CV player has much higher impact on the game. This is the reason why team with bad CV player will usually loose against team with good CV player, unless there is (rare) excellent teamplay. And also the reason why some CV players, who division up with good AA cruisers, have 80-90% of winrates in randoms (because this way CV can also dictate the tactics)

 

So, balancing a CV in randoms is impossible. There are too many random factors. Random battles does not usually even have any real tactics, so trying to but in even higher level of planning into it, is....well not that bound for success. CV is at the same time completely balancable in Clan battles. Or any other game-mode with pre-formed teams and ranking system.

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I'm no CV expert, and tbh, i skipped most of the vid.

But from what i saw, it looked like damage farming to me. Not that i'm saying that making ~500k damage is easy even in that matchup.

It's just that i had the feeling that he was farming the easy targets instead of the important targets, like the Kii kill.

That BB was the only BB remaining in the west and from that short sequence, it looked like his team could have handled him alone. 

 

Anyways, kudos for the current record in a Midway.

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What most people don't understand is that monster damage games are actually relatively rare for the cream of CV players. A perfectly managed carrier against a mediocre one, unless the enemy team has some pretty good players behind the controls of AA heavy ships, tends to end the game so quickly that there is no time to farm damage. The clueless squawking about how carriers are overpowered that inevitably footnotes these threads just shows how the playerbase at large are completely incapable of understanding carrier play.

 

On a separate note, do you think I should move to SEA this summer vacation whilst I'm home? I'll want to try for a 400k+ Hindenburg game.

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11 hours ago, Captain_Bloodless said:

The end result earns a compliment, still a 1 in a 1000 years matching with so many poor AA large HP BB and only 1 cruiser.

 

Isn't that the case for most record high scores. It requires the player's team to be terrible and the opposing team to be worse. 

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Why can´t someone be glad over someone have made a great game? 

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2 hours ago, darkstar73 said:

Why can´t someone be glad over someone have made a great game? 

it is great record, but the game was crap.

it had shitty MM, shitty teammates, shitty enemies and CV didnt do anything to help team win except damage farmed. came here expecting amazing game, but it was just meh game with lots of damage farmed.

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CVs need proper Matchmaking, which would put equally skilled CVs against each other. In such a scenario they are nowhere near OP, since they attempt to counter each other.

 

If one is a potato and the other a unicum then it is ALWAYS a stomp, since a well played CV with no opposition from the other CV has way too much impact on the outcome of the game.

Same goes for tiers; a TX CV against lower tier opponents is terribly OP, while a T8 CV against TX ships is pretty much useless, since you can´t even strike a BB due to their AA.

 

In competitive CVs aren´t OP at all, since you usually have equally skilled players against each other, same-tier MM and their existence revolves 90 percent around spotting and they rarely get any real damage in.

 

But MM will never change, so any discussion is pointless.

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3 minutes ago, Tekacko said:

CVs need proper Matchmaking, which would put equally skilled CVs against each other. In such a scenario they are nowhere near OP, since they attempt to counter each other.

 

If one is a potato and the other a unicum then it is ALWAYS a stomp, since a well played CV with no opposition from the other CV has way too much impact on the outcome of the game.

Same goes for tiers; a TX CV against lower tier opponents is terribly OP, while a T8 CV against TX ships is pretty much useless, since you can´t even strike a BB due to their AA.

 

In competitive CVs aren´t OP at all, since you usually have equally skilled players against each other, same-tier MM and their existence revolves 90 percent around spotting and they rarely get any real damage in.

 

But MM will never change, so any discussion is pointless.

Thats the dumbest idea possible. One cannot expect to be paired with equal skill opponent, because what will determine skill? At the moment most important is winrate. Winrate requires it to be 100% random, otherwise, in you perfect mm everyone will have 50%.

 

Other games make tiers (bronze, silver, gold, platinium, etc), and inside those tiers payers are found. But this idea cant be adapted here, because in one match there are 24 players. Other games have maximum of 3 per side (starcraft for example).

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17 hours ago, Shaka_D said:

(...)and they say its not broken.

Above example is not very good tbh. Same result you could achieve in torpedo boat if it happened to be the only one in match full of battleships. Noone sane would say DDs are OP, right? CVs do require rework, that's true, but above game is better illustration of BB overpopulation then anything else.

 

 

2 hours ago, Tekacko said:

(...) T8 CV against TX ships is pretty much useless, since you can´t even strike a BB due to their AA.

It is only true in case of Full AA builds and also early in the game, when ships have still full AA capacity.

You can easily roflstomp T8 battleships even in Ryujo if you do this at the right time.

And still you can scout / harras destroyers and of course counter enemy CV.

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